Finally we have the plan for the rearranged meetings starting January 2009:
Basically everything remains as originally informed - Duration of the meeting 1:45 hours. First the 25 min. book/bible study, then the theocratic school and then the service meeting, 30 and 35 minutes. respectively.
Bible Highlights (which are only mentioned in the instructions on the first page), 10 minutes. 4 minutes for the one giving the talk and 6 minutes for the brothers. When starting a new bible book, use then the Inspired book for those 4 minutes. The other 6 remain for the listeners to participate.
Even though the role of Circuit Overseer will eventually be eliminated, it will remain in effect for at least another year. The visit of the Circuit Overseer will remain the same. During that week there will be only two meetings. Tuesday theocratic school and talk, and another night during the week, the congregation bible study and another talk.
There is also an article about using the now free time that used to be spent on the book study meeting. Of course, the counsel is: Use it to study the Bible with the family, even if you don't have one. The Family Study Night!
35 comments:
Yuppie!!! a free night.
extra time to spend with friends and family going out and catch up with new stuff.
Poor kids.
I dont understand the part about the CO visit... "During that week there will be only two meetings. Tuesday theocratic school and talk, and another night during the week, the congregation bible study and another talk."
Does this imply that there will be no Sunday meeting. That can not be accurate...
There will be a Sunday meeting. The difference is that there will be only one midweek meeting.
GBL you have your information completely wrong! Please don't boast of all the things you know when you are misinformed.
During the CO visit, the meetings will be just like now. Tuesday the school, service meeting and talk. Then ANOTHER night for book study and talk from CO, just like now. Sunday will have another meeting.
Are you absolutely sure about the role of COs being eliminated? Is it just speculation or are you completely confident. It still seems that COs have a future as they are still mentioned and there are still schools for new ones in Patterson. Why would they do this if they are being eliminated?
"It still seems that COs have a future as they are still mentioned and there are still schools for new ones in Patterson. Why would they do this if they are being eliminated?"
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The role of the Circuit Overseer will be eliminated. I may not get everything correct and I am always glad that there are people who read this blog that can provide more up to date information. Thank you. However, I am sure that the information I have regarding Circuit Overseers is at present correct.
For the record, I am not, nor have I ever been, a boaster. I resent that accusation.
I simply misread the original post and was speaking in general about the new arrangement.
You are again wrong. And you are a boaster. You have this site which boasts about the wrong information you pass
It is not about a new family study night.
It is about the fact that the congregation is growing too fast. Some Kingdom halls have 3 and 4 congregations. With the School Service meeting on Tues, Wed, Thurs, there are not nights for Book studies. Thus they consolidated them.
Other smaller areas have one congregation in a county. Thus it is far to drive to the KH. And the elderly have trouble driving at night.
So the issue, like the shortening of public talks, is about overcrowding of Kingdom Halls.
Let's talk about hipocrisy.
You say: "I may not get everything correct and I am always glad that there are people who read this blog that can provide more up to date information."
However, did you not say this in an earlier post?:
"2 Thus, God gives his humble servants special knowledge that others do not have. As the apostle Paul said: “This wisdom not one of the rulers of this system of things came to know . . . For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit.” (1 Cor. 2:8-10)"
You applied that scripture to yourself as if God revealed things to you by means of his spirit, yet you still made a mistake.
How can you criticize others for the very same thing?!
I would imagine, the same way JW's leaders do, by saying "I'm imperfect."
I hardly think the publisher of this website is claiming to be the unquestionable sole channel of communication of God on earth today, you know, like the WTS publishing company is. And notice how he admitted he was wrong.
"However, did you not say this in an earlier post?:
"2 Thus, God gives his humble servants special knowledge that others do not have. As the apostle Paul said: “This wisdom not one of the rulers of this system of things came to know . . . For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit.” (1 Cor. 2:8-10)"
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Yes, I said that. I said it in jest to frustrate one of Jehovah's Witnesses who was taunting me. My goodness, are you going to follow me around now and analyze everything I say?
Joepub said
"I would imagine, the same way JW's leaders do, by saying "I'm imperfect."
Well, since we are all jw leaders, i.e. we lead our own lives, what is the problem?
And what is so hard about being perfect?
password said
"I hardly think the publisher of this website is claiming to be the unquestionable sole channel of communication of God on earth today,"
No, but he betrays is brothers and hides behindjavascript:void(0) a website rather than dialoguing.
password said
"- require 2 witnesses"
What is wrong with that?
Would you rather have people making accusations out of the blue without any corroboration? Without any backup?
"- do not inform his new congregation about this accusation, thus allowing the brother to continually re-offend and then move congregation"
People don't reoffend if they do not have the opportunity, the motive or desire.
"How do I know this? "
Because you can identify.
"I was an elder, I've read all of the letters from the WTS on this matter, and it was their policy on handling this serious matter that prompted me to resign my position."
The key word is "was". And what do the letters from the WTS have to do with you? And why resign, if it is a problem, why not fix it?
"Child molestation isn't a sin like drunkenness or fornication."
And without 2 witnesses, how does one know that it happened.
ronde,
your last post is not in subject.
Well, that does it. Ronde, you win. You are the most unintelligent/obnoxious poster, by far. (I try hard not to attack people personally when they reflect their viewpoints, but when posters go over the line of insanity, someone has to call attention to this and that's what I'm doing here.)
Think about it. Ronde doesn't follow the leadings of the Watchtower (in another post, very critical – and rightly so - of the WTS pointing out the Catholic churches cover-up of pedophile priests) and in another post, he claims to follow only the Bible and NOT the Watchtowers directives. Why is he trying to defend their faith if he's not really “IN THE TRUTH”? Perhaps his father is an elder? Ah! And he takes these truths about JW’s as attacks on his daddy?)
Well Ronde, wake up and see the truth for all its worth. The sooner you wake up the better, as you may save yourself a lifetime of misgivings caused by JW’s “leaders”.
And stop trying to win arguments and pick at every statement made by people in an attempt to find some small nit … I know that is your only goal and you’ll stoop to the most preposterous, ridiculous, insensitive, outlandish, and off the wall statements in an attempt to prove your point – but they fall flat because your statements speak for themselves.
You’ve put yourself out on this limb buddy and you’re sawing the wrong side of it. (Look out below!)
Joepub said:
"Well, that does it. Ronde, you win. You are the most unintelligent/obnoxious poster, by far."
Well, Yes, I always win. But at least I respond to the issues presented rather than just calling names.
"Why is he trying to defend their faith if he's not really “IN THE TRUTH”?"
The faith is not about the Watchtower. It is about Jesus Christ.
"And stop trying to win arguments and pick at every statement made by people in an attempt to find some small nit "
It is called dialoguing. I prefer email or phone or in person, but antiwitnesses are too cowardly for that.
Kimmy jo said:
"your last post is not in subject."
Well, none of anyone else's are on topic either.
ok ronde,
your right as usual, with your grandious statement..."the faith is not about the watchtower, it's about jesus".
It is better for you to say it like this,
"your faith is about jesus...as INTERPETED by the watchtower."
Again, you are right on the mark Kimmy Jo. The leaders interpret the Bible and deliver their interpretations via their literature.
That's all it is, 'an interpretation from religious leaders who "think" they have the truth’. Of course all the falsehoods in their history have disproved that notion - that is, that they have "the truth".
Oh, and as a JW, never may you read the Bible (without the JW's literature) for fear you may understand it on your own. But, when your understanding differs from the WT, you are automatically wrong... did you notice how that works? Ronde tries to distance himself from the leaders BUT the very religion with all its beliefs is inseparably linked to the religion – it’s joined at the hip! Ronde, you can’t separate your faith with your religion, else you are not one of JW’s – in your mind you are only one by performing incredible acts of mental gymnastics.
Ronde says he likes to "dialogue" but I find the technique he [and other JW apologists] use as synonymous with George Orwell’s “1984” book.
Who wants to carry on a conversation with someone who thinks “double-think” and speaks “double-talk”??? Excellent book, btw for any JW apologists. And you are allowed to read it, as it hasn’t been put on the “do not read list” because it wasn’t written about JW’s – although once you read it, you will think it was!
Joepub mumbled for everyone to hear:
"The leaders interpret the Bible and deliver their interpretations via their literature."
Well, you got it. Isn't that their job? Isn't that the role of the teachers, shepherds, overseers, etc.
"oh, and as a JW, never may you read the Bible (without the JW's literature) for fear you may understand it on your own. "
That is not correct statement.
You don't know what you are talking about. That is because you are not a Witness.
ronde you must be talking about yourself here...
"You don't know what you are talking about. That is because you are not a Witness."
No comment on my comment about faith in jesus? hmmm...
Thank you Kimmy Jo for throwing Ronde's own words back at him - what an arrogant little insignificant piece of dirt, this person is. It's interesting that he claims to be associated with JW's... I doubt that.
Joe Publish said: “Oh, and as a JW, never may you read the Bible (without the JW's literature) for fear you may understand it on your own. But, when your understanding differs from the WT, you are automatically wrong... I find the technique he [and other JW apologists] use as synonymous with George Orwell’s “1984” book….Excellent book, btw for any JW apologists. And you are allowed to read it, as it hasn’t been put on the “do not read list” because it wasn’t written about JW’s – although once you read it, you will think it was!”
First of all, as Jehovah’s Witnesses, we are encouraged, exhorted even, to read God’s word the Holy Bible daily. Occasionally I come across something that may have meant something to people at the time the Bible was written, but to understand it I need to consult a Bible Encyclopedia to get some background. Usually that is in regard to merely an ancient custom or something like that. The main theme of the Bible is very easy to understand, and the theme is repeated throughout the Bible.
On the other hand, when I read Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Amos, Obadiah, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Zechariah, Malachi, or Revelation, frankly, I find them very difficult to understand. Perhaps you could advise us all of a better source of assistance in understanding those books of prophecy than the Watchtower publications. Other sources I’ve perused are so vague, or don’t make sense. What is your source of guidance in understanding them? Are you going to say you, all by yourself, have gained an understanding of every verse, illustration, prophecy, and parable in the Scriptures? How’s that working for you, BTW?
Here is a Biblical account of a man who read the scriptures; he was a worshipper of God. Notice verses 30 and 31 in particular:
(Acts 8:26-35) 26 However, Jehovah’s angel spoke to Philip, saying: “Rise and go to the south to the road that runs down from Jerusalem to Ga´za.” (This is a desert road.) 27 With that he rose and went, and, look! an E•thi•o´pi•an eunuch, a man in power under Can•da´ce queen of the E•thi•o´pi•ans, and who was over all her treasure. He had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28 but he was returning and was sitting in his chariot and reading aloud the prophet Isaiah. 29 So the spirit said to Philip: “Approach and join yourself to this chariot.” 30 Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: “Do you actually know what you are reading?” 31 He said: “Really, how could I ever do so, unless someone guided me?” And he entreated Philip to get on and sit down with him. 32 Now the passage of Scripture that he was reading aloud was this: “As a sheep he was brought to the slaughter, and as a lamb that is voiceless before its shearer, so he does not open his mouth. 33 During his humiliation the judgment was taken away from him. Who will tell the details of his generation? Because his life is taken away from the earth.” 34 In answer the eunuch said to Philip: “I beg you, About whom does the prophet say this? About himself or about some other man?” 35 Philip opened his mouth and, starting with this Scripture, he declared to him the good news about Jesus.
So, according to this Bible account, at times help is needed to understand deep scriptural matters. And when you get that help, if it makes sense, that’s a great thing. If it doesn’t make sense, then go ahead and go your own way. You’re free to do that.
Secondly, you mention a “do not read” list. Say what? Did I miss something? I’ve never heard of or seen a “do not read” list in the 46 years I’ve been dedicated. I’ve read 1984, and didn’t need anyone’s permission to do so. I would certainly be more concerned about “Big Brother” being the governments that oppress and violate the civil rights of so many people.
You should be very wary of putting yourself on the side of those working against the interests of Jehovah and his reigning King, Christ Jesus here on earth. You are in more danger than you know.
gbl said: "Yes, I said that. I said it in jest to frustrate one of Jehovah's Witnesses who was taunting me. My goodness, are you going to follow me around now and analyze everything I say?"
This, coming from one who "follows" around the WT publications and analyzes everything they say? And even makes up things they supposedly said? Hypocrite!
@ anonymous -
re. Phillip helping the Ethiopian;
once he'd explained Christ fulfilling the passage in Isaiah, the account reads that the new student was immediately baptized. He then when back to his home. There is no record of him being told by Phillip to consult with a governing body/faithful and discreet slave 'class' ever again.
He'd learned about the Christ and no longer needed anyone to teach him about God, as per Jeremiah 31.
Yet, JWs are expected to attend 5 meetings per week, to supplement Bible reading with STUDY of WTS publications. They are strongly encouraged to become 'thoroughly familiar' with WTS publication for placing in their public ministry.
I was told by 2 elders that if the WTS doesn't have a comment to make on a Biblical verse then that means God doesn't feel that verse is relevant.
Can I JW in good conscience study the Bible, read it without the WTS filter, using the time normally spent STUDYING the WT, without him being guilt-tripped?
So, while in the 1st C the apostles taught people the basics (Paul came with nothing other than knowledge of Christ and him impaled) then left them to it.
In the 20th and 21st C the WTS leads it's adherent by the hand through the Bible, verse by verse, rarely allowing God's inspired Word to speak for itself.
Paul taught the Galatian Christians that because we have seen the Christ, are in His presence, we no longer need a 'pedagogue' or tutor to lead us to him. Yet, the WTS feels they need to be that tutor, leading JWs by the hand, commenting on every single aspect of Christian life, leaving very little to the individual's conscience.
Yes, Jehovah's Witnesses are encouraged to read their Bible. However, Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to tell you what they think the Bible says after they read it. The interpretation of what you read belongs to the Watchtower Society. So you can read the Bible and meditate on what you read as long as it is in agreement with what the Watchtower tells you it says. And.... if they change the interpretation of a particular scripture, well now you have to believe something different. So their counsel to read the Bible actually means nothing. You can read it to your heart's content but you cannot come to any personal conclusions about what God is asking of you. Oh no, that all belongs to a man made organization who claims to be channeling God.
"So, according to this Bible account, at times help is needed to understand deep scriptural matters. And when you get that help, if it makes sense, that’s a great thing. If it doesn’t make sense, then go ahead and go your own way. You’re free to do that."
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So how did the people who tell you these deeper things of the scriptures learn about them? Are they smarter than you? Are they more diligent than you?
You must remember that the scriptures were written for us and God did not make them too difficult or too complicated for an average man or woman to understand.
Perhaps when you read Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Amos, Obadiah, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Zechariah, Malachi, or Revelation, you should take extra care and time to read them.
I have known people who think that the first five books of the Bible are the most difficult to understand. Other people have trouble with different books. None of us are the same.
But to look to the Watchtower for an understanding of the scriptures is folly. They have one interpretation one day and another interpretation the next. They are anything but consistent, hence the many, many books they publish.
Do what the scriptures tell us to do to gain understanding. When you come to something you don't understand, pause, and pray to Jehovah for understanding. Read and pray until you feel that you can now go on and read the next part.
You do not need someone to tell you what the scriptures mean. As long as your heart is right, you interpretation is as good as anyones.
Of course, if I met Philip and he was willing to sit down with me, I would only be too happy to do so.
But the Watchtower, even though they use this scripture to fool us into believing that we need to be taught, are the last people I would seek out.
While accurate knowledge is important and in some areas critical, it still is not what leads to one's salvation. The Bible teaches that it is faith in God and in the ransom sacrifice of his son Jesus that puts one on the narrow road to everlasting life. I really believe that the main reason the Watchtower stresses their brand of accurate knowledge is to keep Jehovah's Witnesses so busy studying Watchtower literature that they don't have time to question it.
Another suggestion: Perhaps you can get together with another two or three like minded Christians and your small group can discuss the scriptures together.
The scriptures say that when 2 or 3are gathered in my name, there I am also.
You can discuss together, without fear of reprisal, what the scriptures mean to you.
Circular reasoning...makes no sense...and you claim that Jehovah is personally revealing truth to you? Wow. You must really be special, to have a direct line to Jehovah and back. Does he talk into your ear, or speak through your radio? Or do words just appear on the page in front of you.
So tell us, in your own words (you're allowed to use Bible quotes), what is the meaning of the beasts of Revelation, the woman who runs to the wilderness to give birth to a son, or the "horsemen of the Apocalypse"? Now, don't use any reference material other that the King James Version of the Bible. We're all waiting!
GBLetters unintelligently mumbled:
"Another suggestion: Perhaps you can get together with another two or three like minded Christians and your small group can discuss the scriptures together."
Why that small? We already have 7 million meeting together.
GBLetters said:
"I really believe that the main reason the Watchtower stresses their brand of accurate knowledge is to keep Jehovah's Witnesses so busy studying Watchtower literature that they don't have time to question it.
"
Tell me. Has your questioning of it lead you to a better understanding of the Bible?
I question it and everything and the results are the same. We have the truth.
Until it changes... I wonder how many more times the "generation" explanation is going to change?
So the question is, 'What part of Jehovah's Witness "truth" is going to be an "untruth" in the future?
You can never know, can you? (We know Ronde, you don't care. This message is not for you, it's for reasoning minds out there.)
Joepub muttered unintelligibly,
"Until it changes... I wonder how many more times the "generation" explanation is going to change?"
The truth does not change and has not changed. Jehovah is God, Jesus is his son and apostates will be destroyed. What more is needed?
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