Thursday, August 21, 2008

Adjustments To Congregation Meeting Schedule

TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS Re: Adjustments to congregation meeting schedule
Dear Brothers: In April 2008, the Governing Body announced that there will be an adjustment to the congregation meeting schedule. Many joyously responded to this change and were encouraged by the Governing Body's expressions of love and concern for the sheep. (Acts 15:30,31) The adjustments described in this letter take effect the week of Monday, December 29, 2008. This letter replaces the letter to all congregations dated February 14, 2002, regarding highlights of the 2002 Kingdom Ministry School. That letter (not the February 15, 2002, letter to all bodies of elders) should be removed from the congregation's permanent file of policy letters and destroyed.
Evening for personal and family study: The importance of personal and family Bible study cannot be overemphasized. This was a major consideration of the Governing Body in making this adjustment to the congregation meeting schedule. The adjustment to our weekly schedule will provide each of us with an opportunity to fortify the spirituality of our families by scheduling a specific evening each week for Family Worship. Family heads must shoulder their responsibility before Jehovah to ensure that a meaningful, regular family Bible study is conducted. (Deut. 6:6, 7) Single brothers and sisters with no family responsibilities will be able to use this time for personal Bible study. Each elder should set a fine example in this regard and encourage others in the congregation to take this matter seriously. (Heb. 13:7) It is vital for all to 'buy out the opportune time' and strengthen themselves for what will shortly take place. (Eph. 5:15, 16) The day of Jehovah is fast approaching. (Zeph. 1:14; 2 Pet. 3:12) How urgent it is for all of us to use the time remaining to build ourselves up on our "most holy faith"!--Jude 20.
Scheduling: Unless there are extreme extenuating circumstances, the Congregation Bible Study, the Theocratic Ministry School, and the Service Meeting are to be held sometime Monday through Firday and should not be combined with the Public Meeting and Watchtower Study, which are to be held on the weekend (Saturday or Sunday). When several congregations meet in one Kingdom Hall, any schedule of meeting times that involves rotation is worked out through the elders in a spirit of mutual concern and brotherly love. (Phil. 2:2-4; 1 Pet. 3:8 ) When the circuit overseer visits one of the congregaions that meets in the Kingdom Hall, the other congregation(s) will adjust their meeting times as needed for the week.--od p. 122
Field service groups: Publishers will be assigned to field service groups. The elder who cares for the group will be termed "group overseer." The number in each group should be kept small, generally around 10 to 15 publishers. The body of elders will decide the number of groups needed in the congregation and who will be used as group overseers and assistants. The Congregation Service Committee is authorized to assign members to field service groups, making sure that each group has several spiritually strong publishers. Groups can be given the responsibility to clean the Kingdom Hall on a rotational basis.
Group overseers: The responsibilities of the group overseer include: (1) taking the lead in evangelizing, (2) assisting all in the group to progress in their ministry, (3) shepherding the group, and (4) assisting in the collection of monthly field service reports. In view of these responsibilities, an elder should be used if available. The body of elders will need to use good judgment in determining which brothers are most qualified to fulfill all the aspects of the assignment.
Group servants: If there are not enough elders in the congregation and a ministerial servant must fill this role, he will be termed "group servant." Group servants should work closely under the supervision of the elders. They should conduct the meetings for field service, take a zealous lead in the ministry, and help collect the monthly field service reports for the group. Group assistants: The body of elders assigns one assistant to each group overseer. If there are not enough elders, a ministerial servant may serve as the assistant. If there are not enough ministerial servants, a baptized brother who is a good example in the congregation may be assigned in this role. He would be one who is making good progress toward qualifying as a ministerial servant.
Meeting for field service: The meetings are to be scheduled in convenient locations, usually private homes. The Kingdom Hall may also be used for this purpose. Having smaller groups gather in several locations in the congregation's territory will make the meetings for service more convenient for the publishers and will facilitate better coverage of the territory. Periodically, the group overseer may assign the assistant and other qualified brothers to conduct the meetings for field service. This will enable him to help those brothers improve in teaching ability and in giving good direction to the publishers.--2 Tim. 2:2 There are advantages to having each group meet separately for field service. Nonetheless, circumstances may require that more than one group meet together. Where the entire congregation usually has a meeting for field service shortly after the weekend meeting, they may continue with that arrangement. Also, the congregation may find it more convenient to come together at the Kingdom Hall, such as during the visit of the circuit overseer and on worldly holidays. On such occasions, each group overseer or someone assigned by him will be responsible to provide territory and care for the members of his group.
Service overseer's visit: The service overseer will schedule regular visits to all field service groups, visiting a different group each month. In smaller congregations where there are only a few field service groups, he may arrange to visit each group twice during the year. The group overseer should inform his group of the visit in advance so that as many as possible can benefir from the arrangement. During his visit, the service overseer will conduct the meetings for field service, work with the group in the ministry, and assist publishers with their return visits and Bible studies. He should discuss the activity of the group with the group overseer and review the arrangements for field service. He will not give a service talk to the group, but during meetings for field service he may offer practical suggestions for improvement in certain features of the ministry. His meetings for field service should be a model for others to follow, in harmony with the instructions on page 72 of Organized to Do Jehovah's Will.
Shepherding: Every elder has the responsibility to shepherd the congregation. (Acts 20:28; 1 Pet. 5:2, 3) Nonetheless, the group overseer should take a special interest in the members assigned to his group and should arrange for all to receive regular shepherding visits. (Note: Unless there is a specific need, shepherding visits are not made on fellow elders.) He should concentrate on assisting those who are weak, those who are irregular in meeting attendance or field activity, and those who are ill or depressed. Inactive publishers should also be assigned to field service groups and receive periodic shepherding visits. (John 21:15-17) The group overseer and the group assistant should discuss the needs of the publishers in the group. Shepherding visits by either an elder accompanied by a qualified ministerial servant or, when sensitive matters are likely to be discussed, by two elders, should impart spiritual encouragement and commendation. It may be advantageous to offer helpful suggestions on making the most of the weekly time set aside for personal and family study. Even if kind Scriptural counsel or a suggestion for improvement is offered, the publisher should feel refreshed and upbuilt. Under the direction of the elders, a group servant along with another qualified ministerial servant can also make spiritually encouraging visits on certain ones in the group by sharing scriptures and information from the publications. However, if a matter of a serious nature arises, they should refer it to the elders rather than to try to handle the matter themselves.
Congregation Bible Study: The body of elders should determine which elders are qualified to conduct this meeting. (Congregations with only two or three elders may use qualified ministerial servants as needed.) Those approved should be able to preside in a meaningful way so as to keep the study on time, emphasize key scriptures, see the proper application of such texts is made, and assist everyone to appreciate the practical value of the points covered. They will find it helpful to review the principles in the letter dated April 3, 2007, to all bodies of elders regarding guidelines for Watchtower Study conductors. Elders who are not initially used could be encouraged to progress in their teaching ability so as to eventually qualify. The body of elders will also decide whether any brothers in addition to those approved as readers at the Watchtower Study qualify to serve as readers at the Congregation Bible Study. The presiding overseer will assign a different elder to conduct and a different brother to read each week. Such assignments should be made several weeks in advance with a schedule posted on the information board. No designation will be used for brothers who conduct the Congregation Bible Study.
Visit of the circuit overseer: The circuit overseer's weekly schedule will not be adjusted. On Tuesday, the Theocratic Ministry School and Service Meeting will be held for one hour. (The Service Meeting will be reduced to 30 minutes by eliminating the announcements.) After a song, the circuit overseer will present a 30-minute service talk. Total time for the meeting, including opening and closing songs and prayers, will be one hour and 45 minutes. On Thursday or Friday evening, the congregation will have a 25-minute Congregation Bible Study followwed by a song. Afterward, the circuit overseer will give a 40-minute service talk. Total time for the meeting, including opening and closing songs and prayers, will be one hour and 20 minutes. Week of district convention, circuit assembly, and special assembly day: During the weeks of the district convention, circuit assembly, and special assembly day, the congregation will not have the Congregation Bible Study, the Theocratic Ministry School, and the Service Meeting. Encourage the brothers to consider the material for these three meetings on a personal basis, such as during their Family Worship Evening. If you are the host congregation for the circuit assembly, the congregation should meet for a 25-minute Congregation Bible Study followed by a song and the district overseer's 40-minute service talk. The entire program should last no longer than one hour and 20 minutes, including the opening and closing songs and prayers.
Foreigh-language groups: Generally, one of the first meetings that foreign-language group will hold each week is the Congregation Bible Study. In such cases, the group should gather for this meeting in another area of the Kingdom Hall, such as a secondary classroom. If there are enough qualified brothers to handle the Bible highlights in the foreign language, the group may remain in their location for the entire Theocratic Ministry School. If, though, there is not a qualified brother to present the Bible highlights, then the group may rejoin the host congregation for that part. (Elders may make some other practical arrangement.) The group would adjourn again to their secondary location to present their own student talks. Thereafter, they would rejoin the host congregation for the Service Meeting.
We are delighted to be working with you as we strive to 'fully accomplish our ministry.' (2 Tim. 4:5) May Jehovah's blessing be upon all of you as you prove yourselves to be loving shepherds of the flock.--Isa. 32:1, 2.Your brothers, Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses

50 comments:

kimmy jo said...

""Many" joyously responded to this change and were encouraged by the Governing Body's expressions of love and concern for the sheep"

Who is this "many" they refer to? And now another change....oh my god the burden they put on these people.

Isn't the load suppose to be light?

They shouldn't make fun of other religions and their rituals to earn their God's favor.

Anonymous said...

Again... this type information is much more helpful and informative than the rants about molestation and early Bible Students misguidings.

Governing Body Letters said...

"Again... this type information is much more helpful and informative than the rants about molestation and early Bible Students misguidings."

-------------------------
I understand. There are many like you who want to close your eyes to the corruption in the Watchtower. What does the molestation of children matter if it does not involve yours? What difference does it make that the early Bible Students were misguided? Well, my friend, it makes all the difference in the world. Even though you fail to appreciate it, these are occurrences which make the organization what it is today. A dishonest, corrupt, corporation who is only interested in their bottom line. There are thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses who have recently come in the "truth" who never heard about the matters that are posted here. Some of them have even contacted me to say thanks.
If the "rants" make you uncomfortable perhaps you can look around for another blog which has only the information that you want to read. The internet is huge. I am sure that you will find a place to accommodate you, because this is not that place.

Bob said...

Absolutely. Thank you GBL for all that you are doing.

Ronde said...

The question is:

ARe you going to be there?

Ronde said...

GBLetters said:

"There are many like you who want to close your eyes to the corruption in the Watchtower"

I keep telling you all, it is a bloomin printing company and it has no more corruption than any other factory that has many employees.


"What does the molestation of children matter if it does not involve yours? "

Exactly.

But mine would never be molested because I would teach them to castrate anyone who would do anything wrong to them, thus that would be your evidence.

"What difference does it make that the early Bible Students were misguided?"

Nothing, since we were not born back then.

" Well, my friend, it makes all the difference in the world."

If you are looking for cheap shots and low blows to use against JWs.


" Even though you fail to appreciate it, these are occurrences which make the organization what it is today."

Not at all. What the congregation, nee organization is, is what all 7 million make it to be. Not what Russell, Rutherford, etc did.

" A dishonest, corrupt, corporation who is only interested in their bottom line."

Cheap shot, low blow.


" There are thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses who have recently come in the "truth" who never heard about the matters that are posted here."

And if they do they would and should also say that it does not matter because they worship Jehovah with their brothers and sisters, and do not worship the Watchtower like you.

" Some of them have even contacted me to say thanks."

Losers. Well, they are not JWs.

frank said...

this is not about the meeting this is about exposing silentlambs. many of the false truths in this website came from silentlamb, like the case of Barbara Anderson.
I told you not to get me mad and you did now the whole true has to come out

here for you to read

Silentlambs or Noisy Goats
Bill Bowen and his associates often make statements as to what the Watchtower policy is concerning child molesters. They would like for others to believe that their statements are indeed statements of facts about the policy. They hope that others will take them at their word and not investigate for themselves. But the reality is that they have actually invented a Watchtower policy that really does not even exist in order to then discredit that invented policy. Lets examine some of these 'factual' statements and see if they are true or false. First, so that there is no confusion, understand that Bill Bowen started his website in early 2001. It is stated at his site: "The website was started in March of 2001..." With that in mind, lets examine some of their statements.

In a letter from the Silentlambs dated August 8, 2001 we read: "The organization of Jehovah's Witnesses is a closed society that requires its members to turn inward to the organization with any problems, rather than seek outside help. This practice conflicts with laws requiring the reporting of suspected child abuse."

Is this true or false?

A 1992 letter to elders: "There are times when an emotionally distressed Christian may seek professional help. Whether or not a brother or a sister pursues treatment from psychiatrists, psychologists, or therapists is a personal decision as long as the therapy does not conflict with Bible principles."

May 22, 1986 Awake, From Our Readers: "Help for Depression To help with my husband’s serious depression and resulting family conflicts, my husband and I went to special therapy with a psychologist. During the six months of treatment, we kept checking the counsel we were given with that found in the September 8 and October 22, 1981, issues of “Awake!” We found that much of the same counsel we were paying for had already been in these magazines for free, but it confirmed that the professional counsel we were getting was sound."

August 1, 1983 Watchtower: "But what if someone in the congregation suffers major depression? Suppose he suffers feelings of deep worthlessness, guilt, hopelessness or despair and nothing that anyone says seems to help? First, he should be advised to get medical advice, since major depression often has a physical cause."

And as far back as 1975 the April 15 Watchtower stated: "Do Jehovah’s witnesses feel that it is proper to consult a psychiatrist? Whether a Christian will consult a psychiatrist, or any other doctor, is a matter for personal decision.... ... he may wish to discuss it with elders in the Christian congregation—although the final decision is his own (or of a parent or the joint decision of husband and wife)."

November 1, 1991 Watchtower: "When our person or property is violated, there are authorities to turn to. You may wish to call the police....The Bible tells us that governmental authorities are “God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath upon the one practicing what is bad.”"

Now I ask did Bill Bowen accurately portray the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses? Or did he lie in his attempt to discredit Jehovah's Witnesses?

The letter continues: "According to church policy, the proof can include two eyewitnesses to each act of abuse. Failure to present such proof can result in the victim being ostracized and shunned by elders and the congregation for false accusations against a member."

Is this really true or is it an outright lie meant to mislead others? Two witnesses to 'each act of abuse' is not a requirement. Two witnesses to the same type of abuse is acceptable. The Watchtower policy clearly states along these lines at their website: "However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony may be deemed sufficient to take action."

Bill Bowen attempts to take credit for this rule stating, "....this became a policy instituted when silentlambs pressed the issue on child abuse." But the truth is that this was stated as far back as 1981 in the Pay Attention to the Flock Book. It instructs on page 119: "If there is another witness to the same type of sin on the part of the accused, this would be basis for forming a judicial committee."

Making application of this directive, given long before Silent Lambs even existed, we know that two different children who are molested on separate occasions by the same person would qualify as the two witnesses. Other information from the Watchtower Society has revealed that the two witnesses do not have to both be children who were molested or persons who saw the molesting. It can be the court evidence and the child. It can be the DNA evidence and the child. The Jan 30 1992 letter to elders states: "Also, should further wrongdoing come to light during the trial it would be necessary for the matter to be re-examined, as is true of any judicial matter when additional wrongdoing is discovered."

And failure to present such proof does not result in ostracizing or shunning by the congregation for false accusations as Silentlambs claims. Any victim is free to report child abuse to the authorities as they wish regardless of how many witnesses there are to the abuse. As the policy at the Watchtower site clearly states: "Additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so." And a letter from 1992 stated: "It is also a personal decision if the alleged victim chooses to report such accusations to the secular authorities." Indeed ALL are encouraged to report child abuse to the proper authorities as the same 1992 letter said: "...ALL in the Christian congregation would want to consider their personal and moral responsibility to alert the appropriate authorities in cases where there has been committed or there exists a risk that there might be committed a serious criminal offence of this type."

Bill Bowen has stated, "I felt compelled to resign as pastor of my local congregation in protest of internal policies that shield sex offenders and hurt children. When the church promotes child molesters to positions of leadership and requires them to call at the homes of the unknowing public that is bad policy."

Is this really so or another fabrication? The policy of Jehovah's Witnesses is to not allow former child molesters to positions of leadership for the rest of their life. The January 1, 1997 Watchtower contradicts Bowen: "For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer [full-time missionary of Jehovah's Witnesses] or serve in any other special, full-time service."

A 2000 letter sent to elders concerning individuals who are guilty of child abuse goes even further than this. It states: "...you should not extend to him any specific responsibility that could be construed as an assigned duty, even though some assignments might be considered minor. He should not be used to handle accounts, literature, magazines, subscriptions, or territories. Nor would he be used as an attendant, microphone handler, to operate sound equipment, to represent the congregation in prayer, or to present "Announcements" on the Service Meeting. He would not be used as the reader at the Congregation Book Study or Watchtower Study, nor to conduct a meeting for field service. It would be advisable not to have a book study in his home. And, he would not qualify to auxiliary or regular pioneer. Whereas he could volunteer to assist with general care of the Kingdom Hall where he attends meetings, he could not be approved to work on other Kingdom Halls or Assembly Halls. He may give student talks on the Theocratic Ministry School and share in non-teaching parts on the Service Meeting, provided that his doing so will not be offensive to those in the congregation who know of his past wrongdoing." All of this before SilentLambs even existed!

Furthermore, while it is true that all Jehovah's Witnesses are required to share in the preaching of the good news of the kingdom, former child molesters are not 'required' to call at homes of the unknowing public. There are many different avenues of the preaching work that does not require door to door work. There is telephone, store to store, informal, street, and Bible study witnessing. But if a former molester chooses to preach from door to door, he or she must do so in the company of another adult. A 2000 letter states: "This would include ...not working in field service with a child..." And an October 15, 2002 letter states of former abusers who might go in the field ministry: "They should always be accompanied by an adult."

Next notice this headlines at Silentlambs. "Two eye-Witnesses” allows the rape of the second child" No doubt this must be an article about a molester who abused one child, the elders did nothing because there was only one witness, and this allowed the molester to abuse another child, right? Well, the article is about Nestor Cabada, who confessed his abuse to the authorities because the elders urged him to. Even the silent lambs article admits: "In this story the perpetrator turned him self in and this no doubt was at the direction of the local elders."

But did the policy of the Watchtower concerning two witnesses actually lead to the molesting of another child because the elders did nothing when they were told of the first molesting? Thats what the headline leads us to believe. But note what the silentlambs article says: "IF the confidential files of the congregation were accessed there would be a strong possibility that the first victim was silenced and thus had to wait till the second child was molested."

Talk about allegations with absolutely no proof. And talk about deceitful cunning on the part of the writer of the article. It just couldn't possibly be that the elders found out about the molesting after two children had been molested now could it? Even in this case where it was clear beyond a doubt that the elders saw to it that the abuse was reported, Silentlambs still must somehow at all cost find fault with Jehovah's Witnesses, even if it means publishing misleading information.

It is common knowledge that Bill Bowen and his Silentlambs organization often condemn the Watchtower Society for not having a mandatory reporting policy of ALL child abuse cases and for having a 'secret database' unpublished to the public. What you may be unaware of is that Bowen himself follows the exact same policy as the Watchtower Society. Notice his statements from the site known as JWD: "I have talked to many victims who have never reported their abuse, I simply encourage them to talk about it to counslers, close friends, or report the matter on the sl website. The more they learn they can speak out the more likely they are to report the crime....Regarding the posting of names of individual molesters we do not encourage that type of action, nor does silentlambs purposely put up that type of information....When you start going that direction it all becomes very complicated. After consulting with attorneys we evolved into the format we now use. Anonymous posting of all stories..."

An interesting exchange took place when radio host Meria Hellar interviewed Bill Bowen. In the interview she actually praised Bowen for listing the names of pedophiles at his site. But he had to embarrassingly admit that he didn't. Please take note of the transcript.

"Bill: ...I have a part of my website called "Pinpoint a Pedophile"....But then I find that many of these folks will fill out the survey "pinpoint a pedophile," tells every detail about the person, who he was, what his name was, and we keep a file on these people.

Meria: Oh Great! That's available publicly, if someone wanted to go there and check, is Brother So-and-So and Sister So-and-So a pedophile? ...

Meria: ...But you actually have a listing there where people can go in and check the names?

Bill: For legal reasons I don't have the listing on the website; I keep that in private. But I use it for survey purposes; to show how many states pedophiles are from, what positions, how many elders were turned in as being child molesters, how many actually were turned into police and went to prison."

In other words, amazingly just like the Watchtower Society, Bowen does not make public his 'secret database'of pedophiles. Neither does Bowen follow a policy of mandatory reporting of child abuse. He strongly condemns Jehovah's Witnesses, even calling it a pedophile paradise, for something he himself is unwilling to do. Using the same pair of scales that Bowen judges the Watchtower Society with, his Silentlambs organization by his own policies must also be contributing to the creating of a pedophile paradise. Bowen is nothing more than a charlatan hypocrit!

Other Bowen supporters have likewise made misleading statements whether knowingly or unknowingly. For example, Bowen's attorney Jeff Anderson states: "Child sexual abuse is not tolerated anywhere else. With the onset of the laws protecting children such as neighborhood notification laws and mandatory reporting statutes, the days when child molesters enjoyed a cloak of silence are past, except within the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses. This church seems to think they are above the law the rules do not apply to them. This case is simply about making Jehovah's Witnesses understand they have the same rules as everyone else when it comes to protecting our children."

What? Could it be that Mr. Anderson has been listening to the lies of Bill Bowen for too long? The policy of Jehovah's Witnesses is that elders should report child abuse in accord with the laws of the land. The Watchtower policy makes this clear when stating: "the elders may be required by law to report even uncorroborated or unsubstantiated allegations to the authorities. If so, we expect the elders to comply." and as shown earlier above 'all' members of the congregation have a responsibility to report child abuse if they are aware of it or if they reasonably believe a child is in danger.

Even as far back as 1962, the November 15 Watchtower on page 693 stated: "9 Worldly authorities render a judgment and punish persons, whether they are inside the congregation or outside, if they violate the laws of decency and good order....Hence the Christian congregation cannot protect any of its members if they steal, smuggle, commit bigamy, murder, libel, defraud, and so forth. The congregation must release such guilty members to punishment by worldly authorities. Since the guilty break the laws of the land and thus oppose the “authority,” they are taking a stand against God’s arrangement.

10 The Christian congregation has no orders from God and has no right to protect such opposers and lawbreakers from the due punishment by the “authority” of the land. We cannot hinder, oppose or condemn the execution of the krima or judgment by aiding or shielding lawbreakers. To do so would put the Christian congregation also in opposition to God’s arrangement...."

And then there is one of the most outspoken supporters of the Silentlambs organization, Robert King, who said of the Watchtower Society: "They have denied Jehovah by claiming before the courts that Christian elders have no responsibility before God to protect children from the crimes of a congregant."

But as discussed earlier that is not what the Watchtower lawyers argued at all. The truth is this: They argued that the Watchtower Society and the elders do not have a 'legal' responsibility to protect the children. They were arguing that they should not be held responsible for children legally speaking. They were not the legal guardians of the children. They were not appointed as trustees over the children. They did not have a common law or fiduciary (legal trusteeship) responsibility toward the children. The parents have the legal responsibility over their own children, not the Watchtower Society or the elders. And this is only logical and correct. It is common sense. They never argued that they had no responsibility to protect the children at all. In fact, that is not what the case was about. It was about their legal responsibility toward the children. The suit was dismissed by the court because the Watchtower Society was correct in their argument.

In view of the above presented evidence it is clear that truth and honesty must take a back seat to their agenda of discrediting Jehovah's Witnesses. Bowen and his cronies have shown themselves to be misleading, deceitful, and exaggeraters. Even many ex-Jehovah's Witnesses view Bill Bowen with scorn. Will you trust such a man to tell you the truth about the child abuse policy of Jehovah's Witnesses? But what about all those horrible child abuse stories that are told at the Silentlambs site? They surely can't all be false, can they?

Chapter Twenty-two: What About All Those Stories

frank said...

time is precious
don't get me mad all your lies will come out for the sincere people to see, those who want to see

frank said...

more for you you ask for it

Deal or No Deal
Six cases against the Watchtower Society involving 10 alleged victims brought before civil courts in California were reportedly settled (the court documents show they were 'dismissed with prejudice') on February 13, 2007. "Spearheading the lawsuits is Texas law firm Love and Norris, which initially approached Nolen Saul Brelsford about the California cases," according to an article by journalist Joy Lanzendorfer. Apparently such lawsuits were the result of a 2003 or 2004 law enacted in California that extended the statute of limitations which allowed cases that happened as far back as the 1970's to be filed.

Originally, Brelsford brought 17 cases against Jehovah's Witnesses throughout California but 11 cases were dropped or dismissed leaving the remaining six lawsuits. At some point the law firm of Love and Norris had jumped on board and the six remaining lawsuits were subsequently lumped together into one large lawsuit in Napa Valley. It is most interesting that you often read about these lawsuits being filed at sites such a Silentlambs but you rarely hear about it when they are dismissed or dropped as in the case of 11 out of the 17 cases filed by Brelsford.

Gerard, a poster at the site known as JWD, who claims to be a friend and supporter of attorney Kimberlee Norris of Love and Norris, reports that she said she would never settle these cases. Here are his exact words: "... I am extremely disapointed on Kimberly Norris, their attorney. I asked her a couple of years ago in this list and she said she would never settle. I guess everyone has a price...lawyers standing on the sidelines are not an exception. A lawyer needs more abuses in the future to keep settling them out of court. Why kill the hen that lays gold eggs?" Later he reiterated, "For the record: Kim told me she would not settle, so that was disapointing and caused me anger as I felt she lied."

Assuming that he is not lying (why would he since he is a supporter of Norris against the Watchtower Society) and assuming the cases were settled out of court, then we have to wonder why did she settle out of court when she claimed she never would? Indeed why did all 10 persons involved in the 6 cases choose to settle with a confidentiality agreement or gag order as some call it?

Usually an ambulance chaser, like Kim Norris, pursues these cases with no money being fronted by the plaintiffs, meaning they volunteer their time, but collect 40% of the resulting judgment or settlement. If they discover their case is weak, they can put a lot of pressure on the plaintiffs to settle, otherwise the plaintiffs would have to pay out of their own pockets to continue pursuing the case. Most cannot afford to do so, so they must accept the advice of their attorney. Hence you have 10 out of 10 settling their cases and not one holding out to prove their case. It is also most revealing that shortly thereafter, three other cases involving six other alleged victims in Texas, Oregon, and San Diego were likewise settled with the same 'gag order' agreement.

You may have heard that the settlements involved MILLIONS of dollars. Those who make such claims really have no idea of the amount. They are merely guessing and it is a baseless guess. Innocent defendants oftentimes offer settlements to end cases and if we look at history of the Watchtower Society we will see that they almost always do the same. This is no indication of guilt on the part of the defendant. While there is no way of knowing how much was offered in these 9 cases involving 16 alleged victims, there are two cases we know details about that we can look at as a barometer.

First lets examine an abuse case brought against the Mormon Church because of John Charles Blome. Quoting from one source we read: "This civil case was filed in Montgomery County, Texas and went to jury trial. The case settled for $4 Million after the Mormons were found negligent. A 13 year old boy who was molested by a Mormon Church youth leader in Magnolia Ward was awarded more than his own lawyers sought October 8, 1998. Blome molested many other boys from the same area and in other areas. Sheriff's deputies were upset that the Mormon Bishop tipped Blome to the pending investigation, and he burned evidence before it could be seized. In an earlier case against Blome the Mormon Church was also found negligent."

As you see this case went before the jury and the Mormon Church was found negligent. Then what happened? It was settled for 4 million dollars. And as you see this was the SECOND time the Church had been found negligent because of this man. We can certainly realize that this is one of the worse cases of negligence that could possibly happen. Now, when considering the above case, does it seem plausible to believe that the Watchtower Society would make a settlement offer of 3 or 4 million dollars per case BEFORE the trials, equaling what the Mormons paid AFTER being found negligent in court, not once but twice, in addition to being found guilty of burning evidence? Why, before the trial even began, would the Watchtower Society offer as much as they would stand to lose even if they were found negligent as a result of the trial? Millions of dollars offered by the Watchtower Society pre-trial? Highly unlikely!

The second case is the Vicki Boer case. How much was Vicki Boer offered? Millions? Hundreds of thousands? According to Vicki Boer herself she was offered $50,000 dollars if she would agree not to talk about the case. Opposers would like us to believe that the Watchtower Society went from offering someone $50,000 dollars in one case to offering 3 or 4 million dollars per case as in the California lawsuits. As for Boer, she declined the offer because she said it wasn't about money but rather justice for the children. Reminescent of the game show, Deal or No Deal, she risked the $50,000 dollars and wound up with nothing. No, even worse than that! She wound up owing her lawyers $90,000 and the Watchtower Society $137,000.

Kimberly Norris and the 16 persons in the cases recently settled faced a similar situation. Would they risk the money offered and possibly wind up in the same situation as Vicki Boer? Did they have such confidence in their case that they would not think twice about taking the money because the Watchtower Society needed to be exposed? The facts speak for themselves. They took the money and agreed to the gag order.

Bill Bowen of SilentLambs commented about the settlement: "On one hand, we're glad a few victims are finally getting some financial help. On the other hand, we're sad and worried because they've essentially been forced to give up their right to protect others by speaking out about their abuse to the public." But were they really 'forced to give up their right to protect others by speaking out'? No, they were not forced into secrecy. No one put a gun to their head. They could reject the settlement offer if they wanted to, and proceed with the trial. Of their own free will they CHOSE to sign on the dotted line and thus AGREED to the gag order.

The fact that they settled leaves us with only 3 possibilities:
1. Their case was weak and they doubted they would win so they took the offer.
2. Kimberly Norris insisted on the settlement or else she was pulling out because the money in hand outweighed the risk.
3. The money, for whatever reasons, was more important than exposing the Watchtower Society.

I know if I had irrefutable proof that the elders covered up child abuse, knowingly appointed a pedophile to a position of leadership or transferred him to another congregation as an elder, and as a result the pedophile elder molested more children, I would NEVER settle. However if I had a weak case with little hope of winning, I would settle in a heart beat, even if it required a gag order. Can you imagine this prayer being offered up? 'Dear Lord, I really wanted to expose the bad old Satanic Watchtower organization and their pedophile paradise but money was just more important. I mean er... They twisted my arm and forced me into silence.'

Where does this settlement money come from? Isn't it true that some of the money donated by the brothers and sisters for the worldwide work is being used for paying legal expenses? And since this is the case, is this not a misuse of funds and perhaps even a breach of trust?

Well truth be known, settlement money does not come from donations made to the worldwide work. Such donations are strictly used for the furtherance of the good news of the Kingdom. Since the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is a huge corportation, overseeing thousands of Kingdom Halls and other assets, they must quite naturally purchase insurance as any corporation must do. Thus the Watchtower Society has created a fund just for that purpose called the Kingdom Hall Assistance Arrangement. Money is donated specifically to that account by the congregations.

For example, in the United States an average of less than 40 cents per publisher is donated each month to that insurance fund. When claims of negligence, for any reason, made against the Watchtower Society, congregations, or elders and ministerial servants performing assigned duties for the congregations or Society are upheld and/or settlements are reached to curtail expenses, their insurance would pay. Of course, there may be a deductible to pay in which case the Watchtower Society would pay that out of the excess funds in the Kingdom Hall Assistance Arrangement account.

To those who object to the Watchtower Society using donated funds to defend themselves, what is the alternative? Open up the bank accounts to one and all who have a dispute or who claim abuse? Is that being responsible with donations?

But still, doesn't the settlement prove that the Watchtower Society was in the wrong? The fact is, if you examine the documents of dismissal you will see that all the cases were 'dismissed with prejudice'. 'Dismissed with prejudice' means that the court has dismissed the case and plaintiffs cannot bring the case to court again. Cases are often times 'dismissed with prejudice' if the plaintiff has shown bad faith, misled the court, persisted in filing frivolous lawsuits, or settled out of court. You will find this at http://www.answers.com/topic/prejudice-law. It is not a court judgment against the defendant and there is no admission of guilt at all by the Watchtower Society if indeed the cases were settled out of court as assumed.

Opposers say that the Watchtower Society knew they were in the wrong and so they offered a settlement. But lets consider this reasoning in light of the truth about the Boer case. The Watchtower Society knew that all the facts were in their favor. They knew that it was on record that the elders had seen to it that her father reported himself and that elders had even made an appointment for her to meet with a therapist. And yet the Watchtower Society offered a settlement. Why?

Contrary to what opposers may assume, the Watchtower's reported settlement offer of $50,000 was not made to Boer because they knew they were in the wrong and neither was the settlement offer involving the 16 persons made for that reason. The money was no doubt offered because they knew that it would cost more than that to go to trial and that it would be very time consuming. They were simply trying to offer a settlement as a way of curtailing expenses for a long drawn out court case. Not only that but Vicki Boer as a child abuse victim could have benefitted from that $50,000. But you have to wonder why the plaintiffs would take the offer along with the gag order? If they had such a strong case, why not go for more money and expose the Watchtower Society?

So then who really was the victor in the settlement? Well, consider this. If it had went to court and the Watchtower Society been found libel or guilty they would have definitely been the loser. They would have paid out millions of dollars as ordered by the court. But since it did not go to court the Watchtower Society was not found libel. The Watchtower Society was not found guilty of promoting child abuse. In short, the Watchtower Society did NOT lose. Those who were out to 'expose the evil Watchtower' failed in their mission. Kimberlee Norris supporter Gerard mentioned earlier even lamented, "...with a gag order, no reporter will want to touch it and the WT is winning." Yes, the truth still remains that the Watchtower Society has never lost not one single child abuse case brought against them in a court of law. This attest to the strength of their child abuabuse policy, a child abuse policy 'unequaled in the religious community'.

kimmy jo said...

anonymous says,

"Again... this type information is much more helpful and informative than the rants about molestation and early Bible Students misguidings."

I say,
No, not really. It is always good to know ahead of time how a matter will be handled within the religious corporation you will be signing up with and putting trust in, don't you agree???

Do you really want to sign your life away to a corporation that says you must restrict yourself from any outside information, and only believe their printed materials? Everything eles is propaganda.

History is also very relevant, especially when they claim to be "the one and only" and base it on spiritual truth and purity.

Actually this information shows the BURDEN put on this corporations people. Again, isn't the load suppose to be light and refreshing?

kimmy jo said...

frank
your comments are on the wrong subject. jeeeeze.....

Governing Body Letters said...

Gee Frank, I really didn't mean to get you all mad at me. Sorry, I know what stress can do to you. Believe it or not, I do not read Silentlambs website. I suppose I will now see what it has to say, now that you mentioned it and have gotten so much information from it.
I have been associated with Jehovah's Witnesses for a long, long time. Longer than I willing to admit. I know from experience that while nowadays it might be okay to seek professional help for depression and other mental illnesses, that was not always the case.
It used to be that if you were depressed or suffering from a mental illness it was because you were not praying enough or going in field service enough. That was your remedy -- prayer and field service. A mental health professional was infected with demons and they were to be avoided at all cost.
If you or your child was molested, you were not to report the matter to the law, but you were either to seek help from an elder or wait on Jehovah.
Of course, nowadays the Watchtower has a big child abuse policy, intended to show how vigilant they are about the matter. This is a recent occurrence though. They did everything they could to hide this wickedness from the public and also from those inside the organization.
Also, whatever you say about silentlambs and the attorneys that represented the victims, the society did pay out millions and millions of dollars to them.
Furthermore, they insisted that a gag order regarding the matter be imposed on the victims.
If they were so innocent and had nothing to hide why the gag order?
Also, did you read the court papers? Oh my God, did they lie and fight trying to absolve themselves of all responsibility in the abuse issue, when they clearly guilty. Fortunately, the Court saw right through them.
Dear Frank, I think your anger is misdirected. It should be at the Watchtower society and not me. But I understand. I am an easier target.

Governing Body Letters said...

Frank, Frank, I'm worried about you. Is there anything I can do?
I just read your "rant" about the abuse cases and I can only say that in most cases Bill Bowen is correct.
Have you been one of Jehovah's Witnesses long Frank? I don't think you have but I might be wrong. I can see that you really don't have the reasoning ability of someone who has been in the truth a long time. Or perhaps you are just blinded by your faith in the Watchtower. You are not alonge, many are.
Frank, the Watchtower refused to release the list of names, not to the public, but to a court of law when they demanded it. If a court of law asked Mr. Bowen for the names I am sure he would comply.
But not to get you angrier still, Frank, I just want to say that you are solely misguided. Your posts are full of Watchtower rhetoric and ridiculous defenses and you are blaming others for the faults of the Watchtower society. They made this mess. No one else. Blame the Watchtower, please, and not those who are trying to help the victims.

frank said...

You are lost not necessary to answer your blog your eyes are closed to the truth.

Remember the sincere ones will always find the truth no matter what you and other apostates are saying.
you already made your choice

keep twisting the informations
for your destruction, like your friend silentgoats

kimmy jo said...

frank,

It's just a blog site, calm down.

Governing Body Letters said...

Dear Frank:
You are lost not necessary to answer your blog your eyes are closed to the truth.
Remember the sincere ones will always find the truth no matter what you and other apostates are saying.
you already made your choice.
----------------------------
Thank you Frank. Yes, I have found the Truth. I am happy to say that Jehovah has blessed me and my family and we are happier than ever before. We are kind and good people, not because the Watchtower told us to be, but because we believe in Jehovah God and his son Jesus Christ and are grateful for all the provisions he was given us. God is good. We are free in Christ. Best of luck to you Frank! I mean that sincerely.

Anonymous said...

Thanks everyone.......the JW's that comment here arent even supposed to be comming on to this website yet they show prejudice in their answer, while the opossers dont let down either. Arent we supposed to win one another by how we treat eachother? Well ive got a solution. After serving 10 yrs as a JW im going to go to Walmart and buy some detergent and bath lotion. Then combine it to create hydrogen sulfide gas which is colorless and gives off a smell of rotten eggs. When I inhale it, the gas will suffocate me and/or cause brain damage and I will be finally be free. Thanks you guys, you're the best!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 2, not the same one above: GBL will you please just let us know? Are you associated with JWs now? Are you pretending to be one? Do you go to the meetings? Your belief in Jehovah God and Jesus Christ having blessed you is a conclusion you could have only gotten after being one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and you still believe that. I am asking respectfully because this is a little confusing.

Governing Body Letters said...

Hello A-2. Do you believe that only Jehovah's Witnesses believe in Jehovah and his son Jesus Christ? That is not true. Many Christians also believe the same thing.
Do you believe that Jehovah only blesses witnesses? That also is not true, no matter what the Watchtower teaches.
Jehovah blesses all honest hearted ones who come to him sincerely.
Jehovah's load is light. He assures us that when 2 or 3 are gathered in his name he is there also. So a congregation does not have to be a formal meeting. 2 or 3 people can make a congregation.
To answer your question, I have been a witness for a long, long time. But the organization has now turned apostate and dangerous and Jehovah is not with them.
The Watchtower used to be a benign little religion that no one paid much attention to. But as they got richer they turned further and further away from Jehovah. I can no longer go along with their unchristian actions.
They have become just like the religions they condemn.

Ronde said...

GBLetters said:

"Yes, I have found the Truth. I am happy to say that Jehovah has blessed me and my family and we are happier than ever before. We are kind and good people,"

Well, if that is the case, I would like to attend one of your meetings.

What does one look for in the phone book? When will your preaching come to my house?

berty said...

frank are you working for the legal department of the JW? How many times have you copy and paste this piece of information?
I would suggest that although some of the information in antiJW blogs maybe, I repeat maybe, exaggerated it is good, also, to accept that your organization may have a part of the blame on those cases. After all they accept that they are not infallible.

hudsoncarl said...

keep er going, frank. too bad the text had to be squeezed into a newspaper column. should be its own posting on the home page!

berty said...

@ronde
you are not susceptible of learning to discuss so maybe you are losing your time here. Try another territory, please. You might be more fruitful there.

And I assure you that you can't find new sheep here.

Anonymous said...

Frank:

Thanks for that info, it was not a waste of time. It made me understand things a little better.

I was just thinking to all those who post here on the subject of abuse of any kind, sexual or otherwise.......

As a society we have come a long way toward making things like this unacceptable. There was a time when this was never discussed and if discovered it was hidden in a family. Husbands were able to beat wife and children at his discretion and nobody interfered, not even the police.

My father use to beat my Mom regularly, and I remember the police just having a talk with him as my mom stood there bleeding and battered. I have a friend who was sexually abused by her father and the whole family knew about it. Years later the family apologized for not helping her.

I ask myself, how could this have happened? Now everyone is aware of it because the victims started to talk and fight back. Society has helped the victims fight back by providing awareness and help. Then everyone was in a hurry to establish policies for sexual harassment, sexual abuse, help and consideration for the victims....etc.

The plight of depression was not understood for years and women could be put in an institution for menopause & depression. So at one time when Witnesses were depressed, and it was not understood, maybe the brother did tell a sister to pray more. But now they don't. We are all more enlightened. EVERYONE is more enlightened these days.

So given the climate of society in general in the 30's, 40's, and 50's, some of the brothers counsel is understandable. We know better now. And new and more applicable counsel is given.

frank said...

Like I say you just want to believe what you want to believe, I post the whole true for you about some cases involving child abuse among jehovah witnesses, did you bother take the time to read it? you don't like to hear the truth do you?
you just like yakeee yakkkk
too bad but the truth is the truth nothing will change that no matter what you say.

hey regarding Jehovah and Jesus
how many religions you know used God's name?
can you say someone is your friend if you don't even use his name?

Jesus himself make God's name known when he was on earth. who's doing like Jesus today?
so you don't want to swallow your tongue do you?

Their believes in Jesus are not what the bible really teach about him.

and again instead of keep yakee yak
Pay attention Read.
do your own research, and your eyes will be open.

Yakeeeeeeeeeeee Yakkkkkkk
keep lying keep twisting the info
oh I forget do you know how I found your website?
someone I met in preaching door to door was telling me a lot craps found in your site.
guess what he is a bible student now, I study the bible with him every saturday. he's asking a lot of questions but so far your craps did not stop him from study.

keep yakee yak it is your choice

JoePublish said...

Ronde is "Frank" one of your aliases?

Ronde said...

Berty:

"And I assure you that you can't find new sheep here."

You, yourself said it. You are all goats here.

But I am not interest in finding sheep. I would rather battle the wolves.

frank said...

no more on that subject let's see what else the goats has to say

spiritualbrother said...

Frank, are you the person known as Third Witness? Your writing seems quite similar to his. Or perhaps you are just quoting from his site.

passwordprotected said...

"Family Worship Evening" = "Family Home Evening".

The Dubs are copying the LDS.

Ronde said...

"Frank, are you the person known as Third Witness?"

The truth is the reality and they are both stating it.

Ronde said...

password protect:

What is a 'dub'?

passwordprotected said...

@ ronde

It's a pejorative. A word that expresses contempt or disapproval. Much like the word 'apostate'.

passwordprotected said...

@ ronde -

Re. GBL meetings and the chance of him coming to your door, yet again you make the classic blinkered JW mistake of putting man-made standards on the pedestal of Christianity.

"By their fruits you will know them."

Governing Body Letters said...

"Well, if that is the case, I would like to attend one of your meetings. What does one look for in the phone book? When will your preaching come to my house?"
---------------------------
Jesus said that LOVE would be the identifying mark for true christians. Not meetings and not preaching. LOVE.

Governing Body Letters said...

"My father use to beat my Mom regularly, and I remember the police just having a talk with him as my mom stood there bleeding and battered. I have a friend who was sexually abused by her father and the whole family knew about it. Years later the family apologized for not helping her.
I ask myself, how could this have happened? Now everyone is aware of it because the victims started to talk and fight back. Society has helped the victims fight back by providing awareness and help. Then everyone was in a hurry to establish policies for sexual harassment, sexual abuse, help and consideration for the victims....etc.
The plight of depression was not understood for years and women could be put in an institution for menopause & depression. So at one time when Witnesses were depressed, and it was not understood, maybe the brother did tell a sister to pray more. But now they don't. We are all more enlightened. EVERYONE is more enlightened these days."
------------------------------
This is absolutely true. We have all become more enlightened as time goes on. However, what we are also talking about is the behavior of members of Jehovah's true organization. The behavior of the elders who were appointed by Jehovah's Holy Spirit. The only organization that he pays attention to. The one that the channels him and that he gives his doctrines to. Jehovah's, the creator and ruler of the entire earth. Surely, Jehovah could and would prevent this type of filth from happening if the organization was truly his spirit directed one. So we are not just talking about people doing the wrong thing. Jehovah's name has been evoked in this organization and now you say that Jehovah could and would not keep his organization clean, or at a minimum, make sure that the perpetrators were turned over to the authorities.
Either it is Jehovah's organization or it is not.

Ronde said...

Password:

"It's a pejorative. A word that expresses contempt or disapproval. Much like the word 'apostate'."

Dub is not that. It is a childish attempt to demean. It is half of half of an initial. Are you afraid of the first name of the initial?

apostate is simply the attitude you display.

Ronde said...

password:

"GBL meetings and the chance of him coming to your door, yet again you make the classic blinkered JW mistake of putting man-made standards on the pedestal of Christianity."

That is not a man-made standard, other than the fact that I use it, it is the fact that Christianity is not individual. It exists with people in groups.

I.e. Jesus said to go and make disciples and one of those disciples criticized those who forsake the gathering together.

Ronde said...

GBLetters made this excuse:
"Jesus said that LOVE would be the identifying mark for true christians. Not meetings and not preaching. LOVE. "

Love in action would produce meetings and preaching.

Love that is dead, produces blogs against religions.

Ronde said...

GBLetters made another excuse:
"However, what we are also talking about is the behavior of members of Jehovah's true organization. "

That is such a copout. If it is Jehovah's congregation, it must be perfect. Well, Israel was Jehovah's congregation and the individuals within and even the leaders did bad things. They were still his congregation until Jesus.

"The behavior of the elders who were appointed by Jehovah's Holy Spirit. "

Shows that they have free will and are not controlled by the Watchtower or they would not be doing wrong things.

"The only organization that he pays attention to."

You got that backwards, it is the only organization that pays attention to Him.


" The one that the channels him and that he gives his doctrines to."

If you say so.


" Jehovah's, the creator and ruler of the entire earth. Surely, Jehovah could and would prevent this type of filth from happening if the organization was truly his spirit directed one."

You give God too much credit. You think that he is to care for a child who states abuse but yet hurricane Katrina and a tsunami went through...

FYI, Jehovah's name is more important than any imperfect human's life. His son died for that name.

" So we are not just talking about people doing the wrong thing. "

Yeah we are.


"Jehovah's name has been evoked in this organization and now you say that Jehovah could and would not keep his organization clean, or at a minimum, make sure that the perpetrators were turned over to the authorities."

What do you want, a transfiguration?


"Either it is Jehovah's organization or it is not."

IT is his organization and he is cleaning it out, starting with you.

passwordprotected said...

@ ronde-

You may have the last word in our little tete a tete. It's clear you've lost your mind and thus it's impossible to reason with you.

Anonymous said...

Frank:

THANK YOU for your logical presentation. When all you read in the media is what silentlambs holds press conferences to announce, it is refreshing to read such a concise article.

Ronde:
Keep it going! :-) Thanks!

Anonymous said...

kimmy jo said:"Many" joyously responded to this change and were encouraged by the Governing Body's expressions of love and concern for the sheep"

Who is this "many" they refer to? And now another change....oh my god the burden they put on these people.

Isn't the load suppose to be light?

They shouldn't make fun of other religions and their rituals to earn their God's favor."

Let me address the first part. I don't know if the article quoted above was actually penned by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, but I can assure you that everyone in my congregation were and are joyous about this new arrangement. "Burden"? What burden? How can freeing one evening of our busy week be called putting a burden on people? If you had been at the meeting where the letter advising of this new arrangement was read you would have heard the loving comment from the Christian Congregation to the effect of recognizing that with the pressures of daily life, the cost of fuel and other high costs of living, the interest was in lessening the burden on Jehovah's people in these difficult times. I don't understand how you compute that meeting two times a week instead of three is adding a "burden". Were you paying attention? Guess not.

Secondly, we don't make fun of other religions and their rituals. Empty rituals that don't please God are no laughing matter.

Change is not always bad, you know. Thank goodness that the treatment of depression is now much better understood, and that medicine has changed to understand bacteria, viruses, etc. Thank goodness society in general has come to understand the deadly aspects of smoking cigarettes. A generation ago you couldn't expect to eat in a restaurant in a nonsmoking section, or get a nonsmoking room at a hotel. Nonsmokers were scorned. Look what a beneficial change that has been.

If the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses makes changes in their organizational and meeting procedures, why should that be a problem for you personally? And please don't try to kid yourself and others that you are really concerned about the well-being of Jehovah's Witnesses. It is clear that you have another agenda going on.

Ronde said...

password "

"You may have the last word in our little tete a tete. It's clear you've lost your mind and thus it's impossible to reason with you."

You just can't hack it can you?

So you just resort to calling names.

kimmy jo said...

The other religions do not view their rituals as "empty" just as you don't view yours that way. Never the less they are rituals. You do not know for sure that yours are any more "approved" of than other religions. Your rituals are geared more toward pounding in watchtower jargon and pasting it securely in your brain so you all can sound the same. It is a form of mind manipulation.

Ronde said...

Kimmy Jo said:

"The other religions do not view their rituals as "empty" just as you don't view yours that way. "

Yeah, that is why their church services have a choice of traditional or contemporary and they have basketball courts and gyms and bake sales and rock bands.

Governing Body Letters said...

"Yeah, that is why their church services have a choice of traditional or contemporary and they have basketball courts and gyms and bake sales and rock bands."
----------------------------------
So what? People are not the same and have different personalities no mater how much the Watchtower wants everybody to be the same. People learn of Christ and his promises in their own way and it is not always the Watchtower way.
Did you ever read the scriptures about David and his singing and dancing? He did not sing boring Kingdom songs that help to indoctrinate its members. No, he played his instrument and jumped and danced in his joy. In fact, if David lived todday he would probably be a part of a rock band. Maybe if witnesses had a rock band or two at the meetings more people would come and the meetings would not be so boring.
What's wrong with having bake sales to raise money. Although it is not widely advertised witnesses do this too, especially in times of natural disasters. Since the Watchtower is constantly badgering its poor members for money, this is a good thing to do.

Ronde said...

GBLetters said:

"So what? "

What is that they don't learn anything about the Bible.

"People are not the same and have different personalities no mater how much the Watchtower wants everybody to be the same."

The Watchtower is not involved with what I said.

If people want gyms and rock bands, do it on their own time, not congregation time.

" People learn of Christ and his promises in their own way and it is not always the Watchtower way."

Which means that they don't learn about Christ.

"Did you ever read the scriptures about David and his singing and dancing? He did not sing boring Kingdom songs that help to indoctrinate its members. "

And those Kingdom Songs don't amount to dirty dancing.

" Maybe if witnesses had a rock band or two at the meetings more people would come and the meetings would not be so boring."

WE do it on our own time.

"What's wrong with having bake sales to raise money. Although it is not widely advertised witnesses do this too, especially in times of natural disasters."

What is wrong with just donating what one has?

" Since the Watchtower is constantly badgering its poor members for money, this is a good thing to do. "

The Watchtower only asks for money in the December issue. Other than they they don't ask, and that is not asking. So where is this constantly?

kimmy jo said...

The other religions do not view their rituals as "empty" just as you don't view yours that way. Never the less they are rituals. You do not know for sure that yours are any more "approved" of than other religions. Your rituals are geared more toward pounding in watchtower jargon and pasting it securely in your brain so you all can sound the same. It is a form of mind manipulation

Sheva said...

Very nice to read about that.


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