Wednesday, August 27, 2008

Did The Watchtower Lie As To Whom Will Be Saved At Armageddon?


And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah's organization for salvation...
-Watchtower 1981 November 15 p.21 'Stay Awake and Keep Your Senses'

Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones ... Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will
not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do.
-Watchtower 1981 December 1 p.27 The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter

A third requirement is that we be associated with God's channel, his organization. ... Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will.
To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it.
-Watchtower 1983 February 15 p.12 You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth-But How?

"
Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the annointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil."
-The Watchtower, September 1, 1989, p.19 paragraph 7.

Do not conclude that there are different roads, or ways, that you can follow to gain life in God's new system. There is only one. There was just one ark that survived the Flood, not a number of boats. And there will be only one organization--God's visible organization -- that will survive the fast-approaching "great tribulation." It is simply not true that all religions lead to the same goal...
You must be part of Jehovah's organization, doing God's will, in order to receive his blessing of everlasting life...
-You Can live Forever (1982, 1990) p.255

"
identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation."
-Our Kingdom Ministry, 11/1990, p. 1

"No other organization on earth enjoys an intimate relationship with the Creator. ...Clearly, those who desire to serve God can only turn to the one organization that enjoys Jehovah’s spirit and blessing. ... No other organization on earth enjoys God’s special care and protection."
-The Watchtower, 11/1/1991, pp. 30-31

"But if we were to draw away from Jehovah’s organization, there would be
no place else to go for salvation and true joy."
-The Watchtower, September 15, 1993, p. 22

"The speaker concluded: ‘Let all zealously continue to
support the faithful and discreet slave. It is only by doing this that someday very soon all sheeplike ones will be able to hear the happy words: "Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom..."’"
-The Watchtower, January 15, 1993, p. 18

"Rather than expect miracles in the form of divine intervention of some sort, Jehovah’s Witnesses realize that protection is to be found in their worldwide Christian brotherhood."
-The Watchtower, December 1, 1993, p. 13


Tom?
Isn't the answer to this question Yes?
Also, the article says that humans should not be judging each other.
Obviously, when writing this article they must have forgotten about Judicial Meetings.
(I'm just saying)

44 comments:

Anonymous said...

excellent post

kimmy jo said...

yes, it is an excellent post.

The Watchtower is the ONLY place to find salvation! Ya, right, it's more like Alcatraz or "Hotel California".

Beware it's a racket and a snare!

Anonymous said...

Yep, sound reasoning, and I like this formatting better than the rainbow colours.

By the way, I've been reading your blog for a while, but this is my first comment. I'm posting anonymously to prevent being judged by these people who say they leave the judging to Jesus.

Bud said...

The congregation would be more loving if there were not men set up to 'judge' (read that punish)the members. It is scripturally inappropriae for men to judge one another in secret meetings and without due process. If that were taken away, the KH wouldn't be such a negative place to visit.

Ronde said...

You are reading it wrongly.

The invitation to come to Jehovah's organization for salvation is in fulfillment of coming on the ark of salvation. People had to get on the ark to survive the flood.

And people get confused about being saved from sins and surviving armageddon. Saving from sins is based on Jesus' sacrifice, surviving armageddon is depending on being in Jehovah's organization.
Then once someone survives it, i.e. be in the great crowd, then one benefits from Jesus' sacrifice.

Anonymous said...

Ronde, how does the organization = the great crowd? Can you show me scriptural evidence of the necessity of being in a human organization to survive Armageddon? And how does the organization/ark analogy work from a scriptural point of view?

Ronde said...

The great crowd is the ones that John sees come out of the great trib. He is told that they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb.

The phrase "before the throne of God; and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple" indicates submission and organization.

They are not just a hodge podge of individuals or religions, as such would not do that today. The time of the end prepares people for the great tribulation. Jehovah's people are a united brotherhood and we would have no problem being before Jehovah's throne and rendering him sacred service day and night as we are doing that now.

The organization/ark analogy has been presented as Jesus/Noah, the bride of Christ-144,000/ Noah's wife, the non-anointed Christians/Noah's sons and wives.

Jesus-Noah got the commission to build the ark from Jehovah for salvation. Jesus-Noah did not do much of the work himself (Noah was older) but did the directing.

Noah's wife helped and directed and supplied the food as the anointed did.

The bulk of the work is done by Noah's sons and wives just as the great crowd does the bulk of the gathering work.


Those not of that family did not survive. They had the opportunity but chose to take no note.

Anonymous said...

Apparently it is more important for us JW to be
right, than to do what's right.

Anonymous said...

GBL:

So let me get this straight....you disavow the Organization, the Governing Body and the teachings in the Watchtower & Awake.

BUt you are still in the congregation to what? Uncover those secret letters and expose the Governing Body?

What is the Purpose here? What is your goal?

Anonymous said...

GBL:

Just a question, how would you suggest the elders in a congregation handle wrong doing? Or should they just leave the perpetrator alone since they cannot read minds and hearts? How do the brothers keep the congregation clean.

You obviously don't like the idea of Judicial Meetings, but what is to be done with unrepentant sinners who want to keep doing wrong and attend the Kingdom Hall as if nothing is wrong?

Are we to be like the visions in Ezekiel where they put false idols right in the Temple and then said, Jehovah is not seeing us?????

Governing Body Letters said...

"Just a question, how would you suggest the elders in a congregation handle wrong doing? Or should they just leave the perpetrator alone since they cannot read minds and hearts? How do the brothers keep the congregation clean."
----------------------------------
First of all your congregations are never clean. There are always people who lead double lives, who drink, fornicate and take drugs in secret. Then they present themselves at the meeting as fine, upright christians.
Remember Brother Cano? The sexual pervert? I think his story is on this blog somewhere. He was a Bethel elder. The society sent him all over the world to give talks because he was such a fine, upstanding brother. When the police raided upstate Bethel and arrested him, the whole sordid story came out. He was a long time pervert who took pictures of young boys in toilet stalls, had a computer full of pornography and he attended all the meetings and was active in field service. He even had a flyer he used to hand out.
Anyway, when the Lord left us Holy Spirit to guide us he also, fortunately, left us good sense (well, in most cases). It is the responsibility of all of us to keep the congregation as clean as we can. When someone behaves in a very bad manner we should let them know and tell them how to correct themselves. If they don't and still want to come to the meetings, well that should be fine. Maybe they will learn something to help them. I just would not personally want to socialize with them.
Sins should not be kept secret between just elder and the alleged sinner. We all should know so that we can decide what steps we want to take.
Jehovah's Witnesses are not stupid people. If only they were allowed to develop a Bibical conscience and not a Watchtower conscience. They know which people to stay away from. In fact the Bible told us who would not be good association. We don't need a special group of people to be our conscience for us.
Sometimes people who sin are troubled. (Read kimmy jo's heartbreaking thread on the shunning post.) People who are truly repentant should not be cast out. Jesus said we should not be judging our brother.
Do I personally want to socialize with a drunkard or a fornicator. Maybe, maybe not. Do I want to associate with a sexual pervert? NO! I don't think other honest hearted people would also. So, isn't that enough. Why can't we just put our God given good senses to work.
The Watchtower has taken the freedom that we have because of Christ's sacrafice and turned it into a rule laden Old Testament organization.

Ronde said...

anon:

"Apparently it is more important for us JW to be right, than to do what's right."

I don't know what you mean by that but both are important.

But you are correct. Because if we do not do what is right, then we have the blood of Jesus giving forgiveness. If we are not right, we don't have that.

Ronde said...

Anon:
"BUt you are still in the congregation to what? Uncover those secret letters and expose the Governing Body?
What is the Purpose here? What is your goal? "

Consider that atheists read the Bible and even have a skeptics annotated Bible. But atheists are self-centered. Why would people so self-centered spend time reading the Bible to find fault with it? Arrogance is the only answer.

The same with people like GBLetters and other opposers. They became atheists but continue to read the publications and annotate it. And they are the most self-centered people. Why? Spend time on something you don't believe in? It must be arrogance.

Anonymous said...

GBL:

Ok....How do you suggest the older men in the congregation, who are hopefully more experienced and knowledgable with the Bible, deal with someone who has......

Good grief, there are too many individual examples to even begin to site them. But are commiting major sin.

True, in Jehovah's Organization people are all at different stages of spiritual maturity. In this old system with all of us coming into the congregation as imperfect humans, I agree no congregation is perfectly clean.

At a Convention some brother remarked at how really short a womans dress was. It was very provacitive. I said she is either on her way in or on her way out, but he didn't know, so he didn't need to worry about it.

Yes, we are able to make personal decisions about things we know to be wrong or are wrong for us. Witnesses do it all the time. But we don't want UNREPENTANT habitual sinners to feel free to continue their course and still be welcomed into the Kingdom Hall.

So who will help keep our place of worship clean? We shouldn't all have to get into peoples business, snooping, checking and then telling everyone. If a major sin becomes known, who will challenge the standing of this so called witness.

Nothing makes me sadder than when someone says, "I know a Jehovah's Witness who...then they tell me this terrible thing they have done!" I say with deep saddness, "Well then they can't really be one of Jehovah's Witness." ( They are either on their way out or on their way in, or maybe a sneaky Judas posing as a brother.)

But if you could, just tell me how you would keep the Kingdom Halls spiritually clean without someone to take action, when action is needed!

Ronde said...

GBLetters said:
"First of all your congregations are never clean. There are always people who lead double lives, who drink, fornicate and take drugs in secret. Then they present themselves at the meeting as fine, upright christians."

That does not make the congregations unclean. That just makes them human. If they were clean as you suggest, there would be no need for meetings.

And speaking of double lives, look in the mirror.


"Remember Brother Cano? The sexual pervert? I think his story is on this blog somewhere. He was a Bethel elder. The society sent him all over the world to give talks because he was such a fine, upstanding brother. "

I disagree. He was a mechanic or something like that. He was not a Bethel Elder because there is no arrangement for that anymore. He was not sent to give talks all over as I do not have any from him.
But then he is one man that Jehovah removed from the congregation.

"Sins should not be kept secret between just elder and the alleged sinner. We all should know so that we can decide what steps we want to take."

If he is alleged as you wrote, why is it that others should know of allegations. Innocent until proven guilty, but not to you.

"Jehovah's Witnesses are not stupid people. If only they were allowed to develop a Bibical conscience and not a Watchtower conscience. "

What is the difference?

"They know which people to stay away from. In fact the Bible told us who would not be good association. We don't need a special group of people to be our conscience for us."

Who is this special group and how are they anyone's conscience? People can associate with whom they want.


"Sometimes people who sin are troubled. (Read kimmy jo's heartbreaking thread on the shunning post.)"

Kimmy JO is troubled.


"People who are truly repentant should not be cast out. Jesus said we should not be judging our brother."

The repentant are not cast out.


"Do I personally want to socialize with a drunkard or a fornicator. Maybe, maybe not. Do I want to associate with a sexual pervert? NO! I don't think other honest hearted people would also."

And if those people have first hand knowledge of such thing and not rumors passed around, they can make such choices.

Governing Body Letters said...

"At a Convention some brother remarked at how really short a womans dress was. It was very provacitive. I said she is either on her way in or on her way out, but he didn't know, so he didn't need to worry about it.
Yes, we are able to make personal decisions about things we know to be wrong or are wrong for us. Witnesses do it all the time. But we don't want UNREPENTANT habitual sinners to feel free to continue their course and still be welcomed into the Kingdom Hall."
---------------------------------
These are some of the problems that occur when you have an organization telling you what is wrong and what is not wrong.
For instance, the girl with the short skirt. It would never have been a problem except that the organization tells us how to dress. Let her dress the way she wants, for goodness sakes. Why should her clothes have to announce her spirituality. I know plenty of corrupt witnesses who dress just fine in the Watchtower's eyes.
We don't have to be in people's business. Jehovah is the one who read's people hearts and so if they are doing something that does not affect you what the heck do you care?
If an unrepentant sinner (how do you know what kind of a sinner he/she is?) comes to the Kingdom Hall, why not? The fact that he is coming means that he needs or is seeking spiritual help. Why deny him of that? Are you so perfect?
Our goal should be to gain a brother, not throw out everyone who does something we don't believe it or that we don't like.
You will need to take action when someone comes to the Kingdom Hall and brings a gun and then starts shooting everyone. You will then need to call the police.
Any person known or suspected sexual pervert should be turned over to the police, post haste, then you will not have to worry about him any longer.
If people are suffering from depression, mental illness or marital problems, they need to see a professional. Spending more time in field service probably won't work for them. All Kingdom Halls should have a list of health care professionals posted on the bulletin board. (Yes, BULLETIN board).
Other than that, leave people the heck alone. Jehovah will judge them. No me. Not you.
----------------------------------
Nothing makes me sadder than when someone says, "I know a Jehovah's Witness who...then they tell me this terrible thing they have done!" I say with deep saddness, "Well then they can't really be one of Jehovah's Witness."

People will tell you this because the witnesses make such a big deal out of being better than any other religion. We are the only ones this....... and we are the only ones who do that...
Well, the truth is that you are not the only ones and the better you recognize that the better it will be for anyone.
The organization is not spirit directed or inspired as they claim. Elders are ministerial servants are not appointed by holy spirit (because claiming that they are is an insult to the holy spirit).
They and its members are just plain old ordinary people, who are up to plain old ordinary wickedness, just like the rest of the world.

Ronde said...

GBLetters I am going to agree and disagree with this:

"These are some of the problems that occur when you have an organization telling you what is wrong and what is not wrong.
For instance, the girl with the short skirt. It would never have been a problem except that the organization tells us how to dress. Let her dress the way she wants, for goodness sakes."

(Well, I will agree with that part however we think beyond that. The problem is not her, but how she dresses affect others and can be a cause for stumbling. If she dresses like a two bit tramp, then it has something to do with her spirituality (whatever that means)


"I know plenty of corrupt witnesses who dress just fine in the Watchtower's eyes."

That is a stupid statement.
But if you know them, what are you doing about them or to help them?

"We don't have to be in people's business."

That is what the final talk in the 2007 DC Saturday Pm symposium said.

"Jehovah is the one who read's people hearts and so if they are doing something that does not affect you what the heck do you care?"

I agree 100%

"If an unrepentant sinner (how do you know what kind of a sinner he/she is?) comes to the Kingdom Hall, why not? "

Actions speak.


"The fact that he is coming means that he needs or is seeking spiritual help. Why deny him of that? Are you so perfect?
Our goal should be to gain a brother, not throw out everyone who does something we don't believe it or that we don't like."

No one is denied access to the KH.We only remove the sinners who do not repent.

"If people are suffering from depression, mental illness or marital problems, they need to see a professional. Spending more time in field service probably won't work for them."

I disagree. Some need medication, others just need to be knocked upside the head. Other than prescribing medication, what can these professionals do?

" All Kingdom Halls should have a list of health care professionals posted on the bulletin board. (Yes, BULLETIN board)."

What does that mean? You don't like information board?

"Other than that, leave people the heck alone. Jehovah will judge them. No me. Not you."

I advocate leaving people alone. You are the one that is in everyone's business.

Anonymous said...

GBL:

Don't be ....Grrrr......having to even address this is irritating. "Why should her cloths announce her spirituality?"

How we dress, the make-up we wear, the piercings we flaunt, the tatoo's we display, the shoes, the hair, the nails, the car, the cloths, the glasses....are meant to make a statement. What message we choose to broadcast is directly related to our mental and spiritual state of mind. I am not judging anyone to be good or bad, that is up to Jehovah. BUT I do get the message, and if I get the wrong message it isn't necessarily my fault. I have eyes.

I won't tell you how to dress, but if you want to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses and speak to others about the God of this Universe....well a little respect please.

Do you think the prostitute saved from stoning by Jesus, then folling Jesus still dressed like a prostitute when she witnessed to others about Jesus?

For someone like yourself this is hard because you are not comfortable with conformity in Jehovah's Organization. But I'd like to bet you dress acceptably when you go to work, or a funeral.
Why shouldn't Jehovah have standards for His people? The rules aren't hard, the rule of thumb is "modestly". It means different things in different countries, but conforming to social norms of modesty is what governs Jehovah's Witnesses dress code no matter what country they live in. (And it is different all over the world!)

AND.....anyone IS able to come to a Kingdom Hall and listen, no matter how great the sin.

Anonymous said...

To annonymous:

"Why should her cloths announce her spirituality?"
Brother, if you have a copy of the Watchtower CD, I urge you to do some research as to why it is of outmost imortant how we dress. How we dress reflects alot upon our spirituality. Take for example our last convention. There was a letter from the Watchtower that the secretary read to us that we are not wear jeans after the assembly or shorts. Did anyone remmember that comment? I beleive it was optional for the secretary to read to the congregation.

Governing Body Letters said...

"Why should her cloths announce her spirituality?"
Brother, if you have a copy of the Watchtower CD, I urge you to do some research as to why it is of outmost imortant how we dress. How we dress reflects alot upon our spirituality. Take for example our last convention. There was a letter from the Watchtower that the secretary read to us that we are not wear jeans after the assembly or shorts. Did anyone remmember that comment? I beleive it was optional for the secretary to read to the congregation."
----------------------------------
The Bible tells us not to judge one another and yet you are juding this poor girl because she has on a short skirt? If her appearance stirs you up that is your problem, not hers.
Here is an instance of the Watchtower making yet more rules. Why can't we wear jeans or any other clothing that we feel comfortable in. Are we more or less spiritual because of the clothes we wear? Showing respect is more than just what clothes you wear.

steve said...

My present wife's previous husband was an elder who cheated on her. He was removed from being an elder and reproved. He then did it again and the second time was disfellowshipped.

She had 2 small children at the time and was very distressed. It messed with her head. She was depressed and lonely. A man came to her house one day on business. He was not a JW. Needless to say she poured out her story, he comforted her and a couple of visits later ended up in bed with him. She did this 3 times, felt terrible, remorseful, ashamed.

She went to the elders and confessed. She told me she WAS repentant. She had no intentions of spending time with this man again and wanted to put things right with Jehovah.

They determined she was not repentant and disfellowshipped her.
She lost the contact and support of her parents, grandparents and great grandparents, brother and sister and friends. She was on her own.

That is why unqualified janitors and window cleaners should not take it upon themselves to judge people and ruin their lives. Even one mistake is unacceptable.

One other point. People should know what sins someone has committed and make their own minds up about how they will treat them. How can you equate the sin of smoking or gluttony with the sin of child abuse?

I would say hello to a smoker, but would cross the street to avoid talking to a pedophile. But if you are in the dark about what the person has done, all sorts of rumours can fly.

Anonymous said...

Quote Ronde: "The phrase "before the throne of God; and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple" indicates submission and organization."

"Before the thone of God...in his temple"! Honey that means they are in HEAVEN! Or...do the JWs like some evangelicals now believe that the Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem, Israel?

BTW--What's with "Jesus/Noah"? Is the WTB&TS now saying that Jesus was actually Noah the drunk?

Cee Cee

Anonymous said...

Quote Ronde: "The phrase "before the throne of God; and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple" indicates submission and organization."

"Before the thone of God...in his temple"! Honey that means they are in HEAVEN! Or...do the JWs like some evangelicals now believe that the Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem, Israel?

BTW--What's with "Jesus-Noah"? Is the WTB&TS now saying that Jesus was actually Noah the drunk?

Anonymous said...

"surviving armageddon is depending on being in Jehovah's organization."

Where do we find THAT in the bible?

Ronde said...

"How we dress, the make-up we wear, the piercings we flaunt, the tatoo's we display, the shoes, the hair, the nails, the car, the cloths, the glasses....are meant to make a statement."

Exactly.

Remember that there are no rules as for dress other than "no shoes, no shirt, no service". But we dress to glorify God. So don't look at the negative, but shoot for the positive.

kimmy jo said...

Some people posting here claiming to represent the true god and his organization have comments that do not reflect a loving god. Hate and sarcassim is coming from their hearts spilling all over the page....

This blog site is about the watchtower and it's misleading teachings, which has ensnared millions of people....not about personalitys within the organization followers(JW's).

Ronde said...

"Take for example our last convention. There was a letter from the Watchtower that the secretary read to us that we are not wear jeans after the assembly or shorts. "

I believe you are not stating it correctly. They can not tell us what to wear or not to wear. What they do tell us is to be conscious of it as it reflects on us and our witnessing. Always wear the name badge and dress well and behave well. It is instruction to carry on the purpose of the convention at all times in honoring Jehovah.

Ronde said...

GBLetters said:
"The Bible tells us not to judge one another"

Where?

Matt 7 said "Stop judging that you may not be judged, for with what judgment you are judging, you will be judged". That means that if I judge another's clothing, I should not mind them judging my clothing.

It does not forbid judging.


" and yet you are juding this poor girl because she has on a short skirt?"

Maybe, maybe not. If that is all she has...

But then if she were concerned about glorifying God, she would get something better.


"If her appearance stirs you up that is your problem, not hers."

Why don't she just go to the meetings in a bikini and thong?

"Here is an instance of the Watchtower making yet more rules. "

What rules and what watchtower?
There are no rules?

How many times did you listen to the circuit assembly of the 2008 year. Glorify God in dress and grooming. No rules. But it is to glorify God.


"Why can't we wear jeans or any other clothing that we feel comfortable in. Are we more or less spiritual because of the clothes we wear? Showing respect is more than just what clothes you wear."


I suggest you listen to the CA program. I have 8 copies posted online.

Ronde said...

Steve said:

"My present wife's previous husband was an elder who cheated on her. He was removed from being an elder and reproved. He then did it again and the second time was disfellowshipped."

And we should care about another's business, why?

"That is why unqualified janitors and window cleaners should not take it upon themselves to judge people and ruin their lives. Even one mistake is unacceptable."

And you know this confidential information how? That is why I don't trust it. If you heard from the woman, you heard her side.


"How can you equate the sin of smoking or gluttony with the sin of child abuse?"

What difference does it make? All lead to death. Hitler is the same as a child who died of SIDS. The only difference is what happens after the resurrection.

"I would say hello to a smoker,"

Why? I would cross the street away from a smoker.

You keep proving that you are an idiot and that statement shows you are.

Ronde said...

anon:
""Before the thone of God...in his temple"! Honey that means they are in HEAVEN!"

Oh, really? Doing what?

Not the priestly functions that the levites because that is for the 144,000. They are before the throne of God, in his temple, worshipping Jehovah by putting faith in Jesus.

Why do people just jump to the heaven thing but can't think beyond that?

" Or...do the JWs like some evangelicals now believe that the Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem, Israel?"

Nope, we believe that the temple is the means of worshipping Jehovah. Jesus is the sacrifice and high priest. The 144,000 are co-priests that work with him in the holy, and the rest of humankind in the kingdom are worshipping Jehovah in that temple, but not in heaven. They are not priests so no need for heaven.

Why would people want to go to heaven anyway? You can't see, smell, feel, hear, etc.


"BTW--What's with "Jesus/Noah"? Is the WTB&TS now saying that Jesus was actually Noah the drunk?"

I stated that, not the WTBTS. You need to reread it.

Ronde said...

Some anonymous said:
""surviving armageddon is depending on being in Jehovah's organization."
Where do we find THAT in the bible? "

Everywhere from Genesis to Revelation.

When you read that, you will understand it.

It is so simple. Paul wrote to congregations. If being in those congregations was not important, then why would he care to write to them? If people not in the congregations could be saved, while not in the congregations, why did he go to preach to them and have them come to the congregations?

Ronde said...

kimmy jo:
"This blog site is about the watchtower and it's misleading teachings, which has ensnared millions of people....not about personalitys within the organization followers(JW's). "

Well, you are one to talk.

You are one of the worst name callers as you talk about everyone.

No, this blog is not about the Watchtower and any teachings. It is about letters from the governing body, but he gets on those Limbaugh tangents and just spouts off.

Anonymous said...

Did I get this right? You're saying 'If we do not do what is right [like sin], we have Jesus' forgiveness. But, if we are not right [about what we believe] then we don't have his forgiveness'?

If that is the case, then I this to mean that your very life depends on having accurate knowledge of God's word. If you don't get it you're dead meat because Jesus' blood sacrifice can't or won't help at all.

If a certain religion teaches a falsehood--based on their understanding of scripture--those who believe it will be killed by Jesus at Armageddon. Is that correct?

I sure hope you're staying up nights verifying every word the Watchtower publishes because comparing the bible record (Gen 5 and 6) with the teachings presented here would make me VERY nervous. Just look at this stuff:

"Jesus-Noah [what's the scriptureal basis for this hypothesis]

did not do much of the work himself [God repeats four times that Noah was to build the ark and he must have done so, for the final verse of Genesis 6 reads: "This is what Noach did; he did all that God ordered him to do." Any suggestion that he only managed the build is dubious at best.]

(Noah was older) [Noah was 500 years old when the first of his three sons was born!]

but did the directing.." [You're betting your life on a statment for which there's no biblical record supporting it.]

Noah's wife helped and directed and supplied the food..." [Where's the verse that says THAT?]

Look, if you really believe your life depends upon having accurate knowledge, how is it you read WT literatue, but aren't comparing it to the Word of God like the Bereans? If were doing that, you would have been too embarrased to present such an argument as a 'proof text' for the Governing Body's claim to be Mrs. Noah.

Ronde said...

anon said:

"If that is the case, then I this to mean that your very life depends on having accurate knowledge of God's word. If you don't get it you're dead meat because Jesus' blood sacrifice can't or won't help at all."

Well, Jesus did say John 17:3 "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge".

"If a certain religion teaches a falsehood--based on their understanding of scripture--those who believe it will be killed by Jesus at Armageddon. Is that correct?"

That would be fair. That is why Jehovah's Witnesses strive for accuracy.

"I sure hope you're staying up nights verifying every word the Watchtower publishes because comparing the bible record (Gen 5 and 6) with the teachings presented here would make me VERY nervous."

Why?

As to your picking at my Noah-Jesus analogy. Get a life.

I said that, not the Watchtower. You are looking at things too closely.

Get a life.

JoePublish said...

GBL, back to your original post.

No one can really feel comfortable with this comment about who will be saved - if they have a conscience.

It reads like a lawyer speaking, trying very hard not to lie, but also not telling the real or "whole truth", should we say.

I'm so uncomfortable with the wording in this paragraph - I wonder why?

Yes, that's my conscience speaking and it cannot support this statement from the GB.

steve said...

'Why? I would cross the street away from a smoker.'

You keep proving that you are an idiot and that statement shows you are.

Governing Body Letters said...

"Consider that atheists read the Bible and even have a skeptics annotated Bible. But atheists are self-centered. Why would people so self-centered spend time reading the Bible to find fault with it? Arrogance is the only answer.

The same with people like GBLetters and other opposers. They became atheists but continue to read the publications and annotate it. And they are the most self-centered people. Why? Spend time on something you don't believe in? It must be arrogance."

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ronde, arrogance is that you believe that you can define me and yet you know nothing about me.

I wholeheartedly believe in Jehovah and his son Jesus Christ. I believe in his word the Bible.

Nowhere in the Bible are we told that there will be an organization that we have to obey in order for salvation. The Bible tells us that our salvation lies in Jesus and that the Holy Spirit would be our teacher.

To be perfectly honest, I thought you were an atheist!

Governing Body Letters said...

"Do you think the prostitute saved from stoning by Jesus, then folling Jesus still dressed like a prostitute when she witnessed to others about Jesus?"
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Maybe she did. Maybe she didn't. The Bible doesn't tell us, so maybe her dress was not important.
If this was Jehovah's organization I would absolutely dress any way he wanted me to.
Since it is just a human corporation, they have a lot of nerve telling me how to dress.
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Of course you have eyes. And your opinions and judgments are formed by the teaching of the Watchtower.
Too bad you cannot accept people unless they conform to the Watchtower ideal.

Governing Body Letters said...

"No, this blog is not about the Watchtower and any teachings. It is about letters from the governing body, but he gets on those Limbaugh tangents and just spouts off."
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Kimmy Jo is right. This blog is about the Watchtower and it's teachings. To support my claims that the Watchtower teaches false information I sometimes post actual letters from the Governing Body to remove all doubt.
Limbaugh tangents, ronde, is simply your interpretation.

Governing Body Letters said...

"They are not just a hodge podge of individuals or religions, as such would not do that today. The time of the end prepares people for the great tribulation. Jehovah's people are a united brotherhood and we would have no problem being before Jehovah's throne and rendering him sacred service day and night as we are doing that now."
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ronde, you really are a comedian. Is that what you do professionally. I really can't believe that you believe even half of this stuff you post.

Anyway, what is the sacred service you are rendering day and night?

Ronde said...

GBLetters said:
"ronde, arrogance is that you believe that you can define me and yet you know nothing about me."

Well, true, because you can't even define yourself - thus how can God define you. But then again, you are just another puppet that is against the Watchtower. You are the same as the rest of them.

"I wholeheartedly believe in Jehovah and his son Jesus Christ. I believe in his word the Bible."

Didn't you say that you don't believe in the flood? And if you did believe in Jesus, what do you do with his 7 letters to the congregations in Revelation?
If you believe in them, then you would confirm that we are to have congregations, plural that are united under Christ.


"Nowhere in the Bible are we told that there will be an organization that we have to obey in order for salvation. The Bible tells us that our salvation lies in Jesus and that the Holy Spirit would be our teacher."

What did I just say about the 7 letters to the congregations in Rev.? Since those 7 letters are from the one Christ, those 7 and other congregations form an organization/congregation. Since those not in the congregation/organization would not have those letters, they would not know what is pleasing to Jesus.

Ronde said...

GBLetters said:
" This blog is about the Watchtower and it's teachings. To support my claims that the Watchtower teaches false information I sometimes post actual letters from the Governing Body to remove all doubt."

Then you named it wrongly.

Ronde said...

GBLetters said:
"ronde, you really are a comedian. Is that what you do professionally. I really can't believe that you believe even half of this stuff you post.
Anyway, what is the sacred service you are rendering day and night?"

Is that how you do it? Just make insults?

Well, I believe what I write because I know a heck of a lot more about the JW religion than you ever will. Hint, the religion is not about the Watchtower. The Watchtower is only an instrument to communication. It is not the religion.

It is not that *I* am rendering sacred service day and night, but that the great crowd is.

Governing Body Letters said...

"Well, I believe what I write because I know a heck of a lot more about the JW religion than you ever will. Hint, the religion is not about the Watchtower. The Watchtower is only an instrument to communication. It is not the religion."
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Is calling you a commedian an insult? Some people make their living being funny. Perhaps you could too. If I wanted to insult you I would call you some of the vile names that I am called by the devout Jehovah's Witnesses who read this blog.
While you might think that you know more about this religion that I or any body else, I don't think that is true. I can tell by your comments that you think you know a lot and that you believe that you are always right. I think that you have absorbed a lot of the Jehovah's Witness lies and that you like to defend those lies.
But that's okay. I am sure that people reading this blog will appreciate seeing a numbers of opinions and, if nothing else, your opinions are colorful. Not insightful, but colorful.