Saturday, August 2, 2008

There seem to be no end to embarrassing statements in the Watchtower literature. Statements that scream and shout out the fact that this is the work of an incredibly bungling and totally incompetent organization. Take a look at this hopeless statement from “Gods channel”:
“w53 648 - These events began to occur on earth in the year 1914, and continue to assert themselves to the present day. Not just one or two of these momentous happenings have come upon this generation, but all of them. NO FALSE ALARM THIS!”
Well, we all know what happened to the “Creators promise” about the “1914 generation”.One wonders what it takes to make a “false alarm” in Brooklyn? When one looks at the totally wacko statements made by the Watchtower up through the years about this obvious “false alarm” it is really quite hilarious:
“w62 132 - So while this doomed world is in spasms of fear and perplexity, Jesus' true followers lift up their heads with joy, knowing that this generation that is still alive from A.D. 1914 is the generation Jesus said would see "all things occur," including this world's end. Deliverance for Jesus' true followers into God's new world is due within this generation!”
“w73 61 - We know that Jesus Christ will take such action within this generation. Bible chronology clearly establishes that in 1914 C.E. he was given rulership over the world of mankind.”
Look at the statement “WE KNOW”. As it has revealed time and time again with the Watchtower Society, they have absolutely no clue whatsoever about any “action” on Jesus part. For decade after decade the Watchtower ranted on about the certainty of this “generation” would see the “fulfillment” of all the insane Watchtower fantasies, only to back out in 1995, telling the dubs that some mysterious entity named “Jehovah’s people” had made some vague speculations about the length of the “generation”.

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

It's OK, the adjustment to this and other understandings isn't relevant to why I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Through a free Bible study I learned the name of God, Jehovah. I understand the Kingdom everyone is praying for will be under the direction of God's son, Jesus and when it comes the paradise earth will be restored. No more sick, hungry, oppressed people. I am not afraid of a non-existant Hell, I know where the dead are, I am motivated to live a moral life and have avoided all sorts of miseries by living up to Bible standards. And I know the answer to "Why are we here?" AND "Why so much suffering in this world?" You need to relax and stop worrying about things that do not matter in the larger scope of things.

Anonymous said...

If you think your religion makes you a better person, fine. Just don't attempt to impose your faith and belief on others, who aren't appreciative of such impositions. And bear in mind that even if you're moral, there are plenty of moral people in the world (who do good deeds the likes of which your religion is loath to do), so you don't hold special knowledge to that effect. Remember that some of us (atheists) don't believe in hell, don't believe in prayer, don't believe in life after death, and avoid these miseries you speak of.

So yes, do keep your religion to yourself. But that's nigh impossible as the very basis is an assumption that they're better than others, which is something I'll always find pathetic.

zepa said...

Good for you anonymous. Some food for thought though: - It is interesting to note that Christians who are alive at the time of Jesus' second coming, will be changed in the twinkling of an eye to become immortal and incorruptible while they are being transferred to heaven, according to 1Cor.15:52 - 54, that is, they will overcome/conquer the effects of Adamic sin and death IN AN INSTANT. By extension it is reasonable to assume that those who died before Jesus’ second coming and who will be resurrected to heaven will also overcome the effects of Adamic sin and death in the twinkling of an eye – that is IN AN INSTANT - to become immortal and incorruptible.

How long will it take the Great Crowd to do the same thing – that is, how long will it take the Great Crowd to overcome the effects of Adamic sin and death to become immortal and incorruptible and live forever on a paradise earth according to the Watchtower Society? ONE THOUSAND YEARS!!!!!!!!!

How is it that the effects of Adamic sin are reversed IN AN INSTANT for those who go to heaven yet it takes ONE THOUSAND YEARS for these same effects to be reversed in the case of the Great Crowd?

Hmmm……food for thought indeed!

zepa said...

Some food for thought though: - It is interesting to note that Christians who are alive at the time of Jesus' second coming, will be changed IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE to become immortal and incorruptible while they are being transferred to heaven, according to 1Cor.15:51-54, that is, they will overcome/conquer the effects of Adamic sin and death IN AN INSTANT. Additionally, those who died before Jesus’ second coming and who will be resurrected to heaven will also overcome the effects of Adamic sin and death IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE – that is IN AN INSTANT - to become immortal and incorruptible.

How long will it take the Great Crowd to do the same thing – that is, how long will it take the Great Crowd to overcome the effects of Adamic sin and death to become immortal and incorruptible and live forever on a paradise earth according to the Watchtower Society? ONE THOUSAND YEARS!!!!!!!!!

How is it that the effects of Adamic sin are reversed IN AN INSTANT for those who go to heaven yet it takes ONE THOUSAND YEARS for these same effects to be reversed in the case of the Great Crowd?

I thank God that I still have my faculties in tact so that I am able to read, analyse and think for myself.

zepa said...

The following is taken from http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/watchtower-embarrassing-jesus.html:-

Jesus must indeed have been extremely embarrassed in 1995, when the Watchtower Society withdrew the "Creators promise" about the 1914 generation. In many decades the Watchtower stated time after time in a bold and confident manner that Jesus himself had promised that everything should be fulfilled before the 1914 generation was gone.

Investigating all bold statements made in the Watchtower literature, must and indeed should be a source of extreme embarrassment for the Watchtower Society. And since the Watchtower Society claim to be appointed by Jesus as his only representative on earth today, this must be equally embarrassing to him. Going through the Watchtower CD-ROM reveals more than 20 A4 pages with totally unfounded claims. Claims, which time alone, have made null and void. Claims that now are proved to be lies and fantasy. This is of course no surprise to those who have made even the shallowest investigation of the history of the Watchtower organization. Of course all the current claims that is made in the Watchtower are just as insane and nonsensical.

But let us look at some of the outrageous claims made on behalf of God, Jesus and the Bible. Look at these quotes. The Watchtower must indeed be on very intimate terms with Jesus because they repeatedly tell us what Jesus MEANT:

"What does all this mean? Jesus' words, at the conclusion of telling his disciples of all these things, give us the answer. He says: "Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur." (Matt. 24:34, NW) He meant what he said. The generation that began to see these things in 1914 will witness the final accumulated judgments of Jehovah God, though some individuals who are part of this generation may die before the end of this world's system of things takes place." (The Watchtower, 1953, p. 124)

"The separating of earth's inhabitants by the good news of the Kingdom has been in progress for many years, but it will not continue beyond the lifetime of those who were living when it began shortly after 1914. Jesus made that clear when he said. "Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur." (Matt. 24:34) He meant the generation living when the world events that he foretold as marking the last days would be taking place." (The Watchtower, 1959, p. 158)

"The Sacred Bible and Our Problem of Survival
31 The foretold events having begun A.D. 1914, the generation of mankind that is still alive from that year is the generation meant by Jesus Christ." (The Watchtower, April 15, 1961, p. 236)

"To what generation was Jesus referring? Not to the one living in his day but, rather, to the one that would experience the things he foretold, which, we have seen, began in 1914. They will come to a climax, Jesus tells us, in the "great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world's beginning until now, no, nor will occur again." -- Matt. 24:21." (The Watchtower, 1966, p. 325)

"And Jesus has told us to rejoice at seeing the dark storm clouds of Armageddon gathering since that time. He has told us that the "generation" of 1914 -- the year that the sign began to be fulfilled -- "will by no means pass away until all these things occur." (Matthew 24:34) Some of that "generation" could survive until the end of the century. But there are many indications that "the end" is much closer than that!" (The Watchtower, March 1, 1984, p. 18)

"However, that distress would not last forever. Jesus showed, in fact, that it would last for only a short time. He foretold concerning those living in 1914 who would see the fulfillment of the 'sign of his presence': "Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur." (Matthew 24:34) Among the things due to occur in the lifetime of this generation is the fulfillment of a prophecy from an older part of the Bible." (The Watchtower, May 1, 1984, p. 6)

Again we see the claim that Jesus "said" that the 1914 generation would "see all things occur", and that the Jehovah's Witnesses should have joy because they "knew". Well they didn't know squat, still don't:

"So while this doomed world is in spasms of fear and perplexity, Jesus' true followers lift up their heads with joy, knowing that this generation that is still alive from A.D. 1914 is the generation Jesus said would see "all things occur," including this world's end. Deliverance for Jesus' true followers into God's new world is due within this generation". (The Watchtower, 1962, p. 132)

The outrageous claims grow bolder and bolder. Here the Watchtower actually state Jesus "true meaning" and "true interpretation", about the 1914 generation, which as usual failed miserably.

"Jesus provided the true meaning, the true interpretation, for the events of our generation since 1914. His interpretation is that he became present in his promised heavenly kingdom in 1914, the year when this worldly system of things entered into its time of the end." (The Watchtower, 1962, p. 621)

Here the Watchtower even claim that Jesus "assures us" that within the 1914 generation a "righteous rule" would be reality on earth:

"Fulfillment of Bible prophecy shows that God's kingdom has been ruling in the midst of its enemies since 1914. Shortly now, within this generation Jesus assures us, God's kingdom will make an end of all opposition, both invisible and visible, and establish a righteous rule upon earth. It is therefore extremely urgent that all men of good will toward God be informed about His perfect government so that they can become reconciled to it before it is too late, before that perfect government destroys all enemies of God at Armageddon." (The Watchtower, 1960, p. 158)

In this next quote the Watchtower says it was Jesus who said that the 1914 generation wouldn't "pass away". Perhaps the "mature" Watchtower apologist You Know, could show us from the Bible where Jesus said this?:

"This cannot be very far off, for Jesus said that the generation that saw 1914 "will by no means pass away until all these things occur." -- Matt. 24:34, NW." (The Watchtower, 1956, p. 616)

In this quote we are told that 'God's Word has foretold the 1914 generation'. Maybe You Know can show us where in the Bible this is to be found:

"It is on its deathbed and the prophecies of God's Word foretell its end within the generation of men that has been living since 1914. (Matt. 24:33, 34)" (The Watchtower, 1957, p. 568)

Feast your eyes on this quote from the end of the 50s. It talks about "evidence" and uses the expression "We Know" which is of course totally meaningless:

"25 During our watch we have seen all the evidences that Jesus foretold to mark the time of the end of this world since 1914. We know that ours is the generation that began to see many of these predicted things come to pass. Ours is therefore the generation that must see all of them take place in fulfillment of Jesus' word. Hence it is the generation that will see the end of this old world, just as it was the case in the days of Noah." (The Watchtower, 1958, p. 240)

But don't worry, it gets worse in this next quote. Here they actually call printing this incredible tripe and drivel, "enlightening people". So serving insane speculations, pretending to know what Jesus meant, and actually saying that "Jesus" talked about the 1914 generation, is called "enlightening". Well, this kind of "enlightening" is just about as needed as an extra hole in the head:

"Ever since 1914 these anointed footstep followers of Jesus, using the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society as their legal and publishing instrument, have continued to enlighten people to the meaning of the momentous happenings of this generation. They show how these events have fulfilled Bible prophecy and that, therefore, Jesus did begin ruling in the heavens in 1914, and soon, within this generation, he will resume the tribulation on Satan's organization, completely destroying it in the war of Armageddon. -- Rev. 16:14-16." (The Watchtower, 1961, p. 631)

To those of you faithful Brooklyn apologists who now no doubt will try the old song and dance about us horrible apostates scorning Jesus and Jehovah, try for once to THINK a little and ask yourself these simple questions.

Do you really believe that Jesus or Jehovah was behind all the above quoted claims?
If you do, who is responsible for the scorn?
Well, I know this was probably too complicated for you, but at least we can have some laughs.

Tom Rook said...

I have been, and am, a Jehovah's Witness of 42 years now, and the thing I like about being old is that I can put things in perspective.

The problems the Watchtower Society has is that for the 50 years I have been noticing, they have been scaring the intelligent people away, and so anyone with any reasoning ability is thrown under the bus.

My heart has been broken so many times by bullies that told me it was against God's will to skydive, go to college, ride a motorcycle, not having a telephone, not to have a beard, having my hair too long, having a job that takes me out of town, wearing a blue dress shirt when giving ministry school assignments, instead of a white one, etc, etc.

This is what happens when you create a nation of dummies, divorced from reality.

However, I compare it to what I might have learned had I been Baptist, Catholic or some other religion, and I might have been blessed by clergy to kill innocent people in some war on the other side of the planet. Vietnam was my era.

The proudest moment of my life is when they closed the door on me at the local draft board, and I refused to be drafted, to give allegiance to a government that sacrifices its sons to the god of war, and was willing to pay ANY price, without fear, to hold to God's standards.

The fact of the matter is that Jehovah's Witnesses have Jehovah's spirit, and I can see it. This is a cycle.

When our parents are nuts, do we abandon them? No...we suffer their insanity with appreciation for our life.

That is how I view the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

That having been said...If it was not for Jehovah's Witnesses, I would not know who Jehovah is, who Christ is, what God's purpose is for mankind, and I am sure my desire for revenge to achieve justice in other areas of my life would have caused me to be executed, or worse, imprisoned for life.

I do not fear death or hell, politicians, governments, or clergy.

The WTBTS is like my Dad, who is now dead. He was an alcoholic, and beat my Mother, and abandoned us numbers of times. He was a talented man, but could never understand the difference between magnetism and gravity.

He served as a very good example of what not to follow....and in his few periods of lucidity, gave me advice and counsel that have served me well.

The Jews were NEVER faithful to God, yet God loved them.

Go figure...

Tom.Rook@Technik-SA.US

Anonymous said...

tom rook said: ".......to give allegiance to a government that sacrifices its sons to the god of war, and was willing to pay ANY price, without fear, to hold to God's standards."

Tom, and yet you give your allegiance to an ORGANIZATION that teaches that life-saving blood transfusions are unscriptual and because of that thousands and thousands of lives have been lost. Before that it was organ transplants and before that it was vaccinations. The Bible does not teach against any of these medical procedures. The brothers in Malawi were raped and killed because they would not give 25 cents for a voting card. The Society stood by and watched that while they allowed the brothers in Mexico to bribe offcials so that they would not be required to vote. They died for an ORGANIZATION that wanted someone to point to to show that they were "persecuted." As far as blood is concerned it was a dietary prohibition. The Watchtower organization is not just caught in a cycle. It has gone cold, stone, APOSTATE.
The Watchtower is no longer a safe club to be a part of. God forbid, something happens to you and you need a blood transfusion, you are condemned to die based on the WATCHTOWER DOCTRINE that blood is forbidden and that God wants you to sacrifice your life so that you can live forever in a PARADISE EARTH. Get real Tom. You have many years invested in the Watchtower and I know it's hard for you to just pull out. But you have been chasing a fantasy, a dream, and it's time for you to wake up.

Sanford Theiss said...

Good points ananymous. The Watchtower comes into poor black and hispanic neighborhoods and tells the kids that they should not go to college. Bright kids with their whole futures ahead of them. That they should spend their youth recruiting for the Watchtower organization without pay. They should live their lives without sex, children, movies, books, and all their energy should be used just to get recruits for the Watchtower. It's a crime and they will be held accountable for it.

Anonymous said...

"...don't attempt to impose your faith and belief on others..." I gladly accepted that free Bible Study offered at random on my doorstep 38 years ago. It made me happy. Many are glad I came to their door to read the Bible; and I quickly leave when there is no interest. Some really do appreciate the efforts of Jehovah's Witnesses. You don't, and I accept that. Hmmm....I don't recall saying I was the only moral person, I just wanted people to know the word of God helped me live up to higher moral standards, that's all. You are wrong about the "good deeds" accusation, why promote such provacative misinformation. I didn't claim special knowledge either. Why so hostile? As an athiest you may not believe in hell, prayer or life after death, but sadly, there is no room for Jehovah God either. AND... I don't think I am better than anyone else. I just love to share the hope from the Bible to anyone who wants to listen.

Anonymous said...

"The Jews were NEVER faithful to God, yet God loved them."

Tom, Witnesses love this analogy. The Jews were disobedient, yet they were always favored by Jehovah.

Well, the Jews were God's chosen people. He made a promise to them.

Jehovah's Witnesses are not God's chosen anything. He made them no promises and, in fact, has nothing whatsoever to do with them. That they believe they are God's chosen religion is only in their mind, a part of their collective fantasy.

Anonymous said...

You implied that your religion had made you moral; I think humans are willing to latch on whatever belief system prevents them from having accountability, whether good or bad. Lots of people live 'moral' lives (arguably even more moral because they don't do crazy things because some higher power tells them to, like refrain from giving their children blood transfusions...very moral that..) and they do not latch onto any religious beliefs as the basis for their morality. The fact that you've decided that your religion had made you more moral doesn't mean that is actually the case. But you choose to believe that, and that is your prerogative.

The attempt, however, to convert other people to such baseless beliefs (and the effects of conventional religion are bad enough on humanity, much less a fundamentalist crazy cult like JWs) is what I think is grossly immoral. And, like all totalitarian (and human) systems, those who choose not to adopt these beliefs are branded immoral (and please don't tell me JWs don't do that - I was born into a JW family). And it's much worse for those born into it - leaving the religion peacefully is not an option. So please forgive me for scoffing at your mention of 'morality'. It's an easy word to use, but much harder to actually live..

Anonymous said...

"You implied that your religion has made you moral" and my belief system prevents me from having accountability. No, my religion did not make me more moral. My study of the Bible helped me understand what God's requirements and standards are and I made adjustments. I am not less accountable; I am more accountable to Jehovah and my fellow man.
Yes, lots of people lead moral lives, but according to whose standards? Theirs? Where is the standard to measure morality? I choose to believe God lovingly tells how to live so we avoid problems and be happy. You have no god, no instructions and so you allow yourself a wider berth. Who is right? Paul said, "For whenever people of the nations that do not have law, do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused." So if you see yourself as moral, I guess you give yourself the credit, since you don't believe in God. I choose to give the credit to Jehovah God. You are content and so am I. What is the problem?
I am immoral because I try to convert people to a crazy cult? Well that's one opinion. There are seven million other people who might disagree with you there. I am happy to be serving Jehovah, what can I say. But really....

What are we really talking about here? You are angry, something happened to you when you were "born into it" (a JW family), you didn't have the option to leave peacefully and now you are an athiest. Whatever happened to you, I am sorry you have lost your faith in Jehovah. What's that? Is someone knocking? Sorry, it might be me. :)

Anonymous said...

I'm surprised your study of the bible didn't incite you to go on killing sprees, considering how much hatred is contained in it! Me thinks you've been doing selective reasoning, as indeed many christians do (and for which I am grateful, otherwise atheists would be wiped out of existence!)
What standards could you possibly be referring to? God tells us how to avoid problems and be happy? How successful have you been in both? Where has handing over personal accountability left you? I am yet to find a single JW who's truly happy, despite the profusion and indignance with which they'll claim they are!

It's interesting that you've chosen to make assumptions about me. I allow myself a wider berth? Is that what you were taught? Are you really unable to think for yourself? How many atheists are in jails, compared to the sheer numbers of religious? The truth is that when you realise that your life is in your own hands, you are obliged (I am, anyway, same as most atheists I know), to be that much more responsible. As a humanist, I simply judge my actions by the effect on someone else. If everyone throughout history has followed this simple rule, I doubt we'd be constantly reading of the bloody and disgusting legacy of religion, and its contribution in so much needless loss of life.

Please don't quote the scriptures at me - I'm trying my best to forget the filth. It's valuable space in my brain I'm doing my best to overwrite with useful things. The words of idiotic power-hungry goatherders is low on my priority list, so you'd do better to create an argument than quoting a book I don't rate. Yes, I can definitely say I'm more moral, because my principles are simple and based on reality, and on the tit-for-tat philosophy, as opposed to the mind-bending nonsense that comes with religion's 'morality'.

As I said, please don't speculate as to how I became atheist. It's rather insulting, and if you understood, you'd be atheist yourself, or at least out of that destructive religion. Still, it's your call. Your religion doesn't make you more moral than those who don't follow it. Think about that. I'm not asking you to become atheist - just think for yourself! Don't hand over your brain to someone else! Because, whether or not you'd ever admit it to yourself, your precious beliefs are the result of a fellow human's imagination. And that is to be pitied indeed, considering all the potential you must have.

Anonymous said...

One last thing: Society refines its rules over the years. Things come in and go out of fashion. These shifts in moral acceptability are not guided by appendices magically inserted into the bible, by god's own hand. It's us: we did it, we will continue to do it. We are learning our own lessons.

You can make the bible tell you to keep slaves and you can use it to outlaw slavery. The passage of time and our own experiences guide us forward. Not this so called word of god.

Anonymous said...

Excellent comments, very good reasoning.