Thursday, August 21, 2008

Can We Understand The Bible Without A Constant Series of Bible Aids?

In a rare moment of lucidity, the Watchtower made this startling confession:
Watchtower, April 15, 2005
Is taking in knowledge of God and Christ beyond our capacity? No. It is true that knowledge of the Creator’s works is endless. Yet, Jesus was not referring to astronomy or one of the other sciences when he linked "knowledge" and "everlasting life." Proverbs chapter 2, verses 1 and 5, indicates that the "sayings" and "commandments" found in the Bible are fundamental to "the very knowledge of God." And concerning Jesus, John 20:30, 31 indicates that the things written down are sufficient that we "may have life."
Hence, the knowledge of Jehovah and Jesus Christ as found in the Bible is sufficient to show you how to gain everlasting life. The Bible is a unique book. The Creator kindly inspired it in such a way that even unlettered men with limited opportunities can take in enough knowledge to gain everlasting life. Likewise, someone with a quick mind and with much time and means at his disposal will always be able to learn something new from the inspired Scriptures.

36 comments:

Ronde said...

It is not a matter of understanding the Bible, but the Bible aids are a means of keeping the faith and putting it to use.

Afterall, if Bible aids were not necessary, why did Paul write all of those letters? They were not the Bible, but they were Bible aids.

Peter, James, John, Jude wrote letters also and they were Bible aids. But they felt that the Bible was not good enough so they wrote letters to explain it to the readers.

Ronde said...

As to understanding, why is it that people not JW don't understand it?

They just go on with this stuff about going to heaven.

Anonymous said...

In the first centry the apostles did understand the bible by God's spirit. Jesus promised to send the helper, the holy spirit wich would teach them all things. This year the whole district assambly program was about that. But there is a difference between the spirit anointed cristians and the other sheep. And there is a difference between anointed cristians too. One may get holy spirit to understand sacred secrets, un other gets the spirit of wisdom, un other the speach of knowledge.-1Corinthians 12
You can see what God by his spirit has revealed to me at www.freewebs.com/scripturalanswers

Anonymous said...

Ronde:

oh my goodness....what are you talking about? The letters written by Paul, Peter, James and others was under inspiration and guided by Holy Spirit to become PART OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES. They aren't aids...they ARE the Bible as we have it today.

You are NOT one of Jehovah's Witnesses. You are an idiot. Stop pretending to know anything about the Organization, Jehovah's Witnesses or the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

frank said...

in the first cenrury people needed Jesus disciples Help to understand the scirptures.
Acts 8:
30 Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: “Do you actually know what you are reading?” 31 He said: “Really, how could I ever do so, unless someone guided me?” And he entreated Philip to get on and sit down with him. 32 Now the passage of Scripture that he was reading aloud was this: “As a sheep he was brought to the slaughter, and as a lamb that is voiceless before its shearer, so he does not open his mouth. 33 During his humiliation the judgment was taken away from him. Who will tell the details of his generation? Because his life is taken away from the earth.”

He was an humble mabn but e did not understand what he was reading he needed a member of the christiancongregation to help him
go figure

and by the way Jehovah is loving if any of you ex witness would like to come back to him he will forgive you
keep that in mind

kimmy jo said...

ronde said,

"It is not a matter of understanding the Bible, but the Bible aids are a means of keeping the faith and putting it to use."

I ask,

Are you saying that the printed material provided by the watchtower bible and tract society help you and others understand the bible?

frank,
you made a good point, but they explained the scripture with the help of God's holy spirit, not with the aid of the watchtower society's printings.

Ronde said...

"You can see what God by his spirit has revealed to me at www.freewebs.com/scripturalanswers "

Sorry, but God does a better job than that site.

Ronde said...

"oh my goodness....what are you talking about? The letters written by Paul, Peter, James and others was under inspiration and guided by Holy Spirit to become PART OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES. They aren't aids...they ARE the Bible as we have it today."

One problem there, dude.

Paul said all scripture is inspired... But he was not referring to his own writings as that all scripture. He was not that arrogant. Jesus was not even inspired in some cases as he said "It is written", but then referencing prior scripture IS considered speaking and writing under inspiration. So it depends on how you look at it. Acts is not inspired as it is a history book. The words of the people in Acts, that is another matter.

"You are NOT one of Jehovah's Witnesses."

Oh, really. And you know this how?


" You are an idiot. Stop pretending to know anything about the Organization, Jehovah's Witnesses or the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society."


Thank you. Any insult from an apostate is a blessing. Thank you for blessing me today.

Ronde said...

Frank said:

"and by the way Jehovah is loving if any of you ex witness would like to come back to him he will forgive you
keep that in mind "

Well, they choose to be like Judas and betray the lord and master. There is no hope for them, that is why they are so anal about things.

Ronde said...

Kimmy Joe said:
"ronde said,
"It is not a matter of understanding the Bible, but the Bible aids are a means of keeping the faith and putting it to use."
"I ask,
Are you saying that the printed material provided by the watchtower bible and tract society help you and others understand the bible?"

They do help people to understand because those that do not have it do not understand the Bible. People actually think that when people die, they go to heaven or hell; so they do not understand.

"frank,
you made a good point, but they explained the scripture with the help of God's holy spirit, not with the aid of the watchtower society's printings."

Well, if there were printing presses back then, there would have been a Watchtower Society. The angel lead phillip to the man, but Phillip did the teaching about what he knew of Jesus. If there were printing presses and a pamphlet named Watchtower with that same info on it, what difference would it make?

Tom.Rook said...

I am happy to see Jehovah's Witnesses fighting back with reason, logic and scripture in the open arena of ideas.

Too long the apostates have had a much louder voice. MUCH louder.

Anybody that thinks these combats of words are fellowship with evil are looking at their navel from the inside.

You do not fight a war with the army you want ... you fight a war with army you have ... and unfortunately, and thankfully, ... we have to recruit from kind, gentle people that have very large, clumsy carbon footprints.

And led by spiritual men, guided by God in spiritual matters ONLY, that for two generations have discouraged intelligence and education.

I think...I know, that battle in this forum will help Jehovah' people immensely, as many of the accusations, and comments made here are true ... and many are not.

When everybody is speaking in agreement ... it indicates NO ONE is really thinking.

The Society used to have an open forum arena it did battle in...Radio Station WBBR, Staten Island. There was a bethelite that gave an account in the Awake that it was his job to keep the antenna tower painted.

This radio station broadcast to the good, the evil, the smart, the ignorant, the servants of God, and the apostates.

If it was right and proper for the Society to broadcast to apostate, it is right and proper for us to do battle in this arena.

Some battles we will lose because of newness in the truth, and inexperience, but fighting real and determined enemies will harden us for the next battle.

Jehovah's Witnesses have the Truth about God, Neutrality, Blood and a host of other issues... but if you do not fight evil...you LOSE BY DEFAULT.

Combat in open arena is NOT fellowship!!

Tom.Rook@Technik-SA.US

frank said...

Tell me what do you know about God?
The watchtower publications has helped millions come to the knowledge of the true God Jehovah.

what do you know about the Ransom sacrifice,what is God's purpose for the earth, why does God allow suffering, how to make your family life happy, where the dead?

do you know the answers to these questions using your bible?

if you used to be a witness keep in mind Jehovah is merciful, if you come back to him he will forgive you.

Governing Body Letters said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Governing Body Letters said...

Tom, in the old days when they broadcast from the radio station they were able to defend their religion effectively. Those days are long gone. They are no longer able to defend their policies and their doctrines and they know it. That is why they will never, ever, have an open forum and why they will never, ever engage in the debates of old. They have to much to hide, too much that cannot be explained. That is why they are constantly harping on staying away from apostate sites even if you think your faith is strong and you will not turn away from the faith. They know their doctrines stand on flimsy gound and they do not want to take the chance of others finding out. Independent study? Independent thinking? Are you kidding? These all spell destruction for the Watchtower and they are frantically trying to keep their members away from them.

Governing Body Letters said...

"I am happy to see Jehovah's Witnesses fighting back with reason, logic and scripture in the open arena of ideas."
------------------------------
Absolutely! I could not agree more. Exchanging ideas and opinions helps us all to really examine our faith. After all, we are all christians and really interested in the Bible. Why shouldn't we talk together?

Ronde said...

GBLetters said;

"One can argue that the Watchtower is right in teaching:

"However, consider some of the wacky things they do teach:
1. Only JWs go to heaven"

We don't teach that JW in name only go to heaven. We teach that from the first century name Christians were chosen, then through the middle ages many were chosen, then from 1870s to 1931 many were chosen, then from 1931 to present only Jehovah's Witnesses were chosen.

"2. Blood transfusions block ones entrance to heaven"

No, we teach that the lack of anointing blocks entrance to heaven.

"3. The whole cross/stake argument is a waste of time."

I agree totally.!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I have no idea whether it was cross or stake as I was not there.

"4. Door to door preaching mandated by Jesus"

Nothing wrong with that. Preaching has to be done by everyone in a way.



"5. Meeting attendance is a bible commandment"

If people did not attend meetings then what good were Paul's, peters, james, John's judes letters to congregations? How would they here them?

And the same for Jesus' letters to the congregations through John.

"6. The elder arrangement"

How else are congregations overseen?

"7. They are the "truth.""

I think that everyone else are whimps and weaksuks to not think they are the truth.


"8. Disfellowshipping and shunning"

Well people choose to be disfellowshipped so they are getting what they want.


"9. Their history of wrong predictions shows they are not God's sole channel of communication, if he uses them at all!"

There have been no predictions.


"10. Having a special day (holidays) means losing salvation"

We don't believe that.

"11)Failed prophecy."

Our's is the God of true prophesy, what he fortells come to be.


"12) Lying about failed prophecy beginning since at least 1921 in "the harp of God' book and continuing to this day."

WE haven't made any to lie about.

"13)Nazi collaberration"

Never did that.

"14)Lying about the Nazi collaberation"

Never did that either.



"15)expulsion and enforced shunning of rape and molestation survivors"

We don't do that.

"16)child baptism"

If they are believers, they should be baptized.


"This defines the Watchtower Organization."

There is no such thing.

Governing Body Letters said...

"I am happy to see Jehovah's Witnesses fighting back with reason, logic and scripture in the open arena of ideas."
------------------------
Actually, I agree with your statement, with the exception of ronde. I think all Jehovah's Witnesses should be embarrassed by his ridiculous attempts to debate.

Governing Body Letters said...

The watchtower publications has helped millions come to the knowledge of the true God Jehovah.
-------------------------
Actually, the Watchtower publications have helped millions come to know their interpretation of scriptures. Whether that is knowledge is a whole different matter.
However, other religions have also helped millions:
Caltholics
Baptists
Presbyterians
Buddist
Mormons
Seventh Day Adventist
Pentecoastal
The Salvation Army
Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.....

kimmy jo said...

ronde,

I asked you,
"Are you saying that the printed material provided by the watchtower bible and tract society help you and others understand the bible?"


The reason I asked you this question was because of your past comments reflecting that you have nothing to do with the watchtowers publications, now you said that they are usefull in "keeping the faith and putting it(the bible) to use" .

Governing Body Letters said...

"if you used to be a witness keep in mind Jehovah is merciful, if you come back to him he will forgive you."
----------------------------
Frank, I have never left Jehovah. I left an organization that only claims to represent Jehovah. When I found out they did not I left it. I have never left Jehovah or his son Jesus Christ, in whom our salvation lies!

Alex said...

The Watchower organization and its teachings get weaker and weaker the more one 'takes in knowledge'.
I now know why they try to restrict information just like any other high control group.

Why do Watchtower religion bible studies only end up being book studies from men?
There are so many things one could comment on but I would recommend on just start to explore themselves.

Alex
from Canada

frank said...

hey governing body whoever you are i did not say that for you I know you are already lost, you just waiting for your judgement. hey yea you left Jehovah, you are not serving the true God and you know it.

not able to defend our policies they are the best. what are you talking about, I guess you did not take time to read my post on child abuse.
or let's say you just want to close your eyes to the truth too bad. I kow that nothing I can say will change your mind.
you will not open your eyes to the truth.
ok now tell me what good are you doing to help people to come to know the true God?
don't tell me your post will help

the only thing you are doing is making your hatred of Jehovah Organization known, only criticism, you are not offering something better.
just yakee yak, that's all you are oding. and your site is not preventing the witnesses to keep preaching the good news.

let me tell you, you are just wasting your time.
I have to stay away from your site
you are also making me wasting my time.

let me tell you you haven't proof nothing with all your post. all are craps, like the child abuse you think you got it do you.

but the true is there and anyone who reads your craps and want to really know the truth when you knock at their door guess what you will always proof you wrong

I said anyone who really want to know the truth your craps will not stop them from becoming a witness

so keep yakkeeeeee Yakkkkkkkk
and wait for your judgement to come soon.

Governing Body Letters said...

Frank, I read every word of your post regarding child abuse. I read it and I must tell you that none of it is true. I don't know where you got your information from, but someone must be playing a joke on you. The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is directly and solely responsible for all the abuse cases. They, along with those they appointed in roles of responsibility, are the ones to blame. As I appointed out before, your anger is misdirected.
I am sorry that you are so confused and I pray that God will help you to come to an understanding of the real truth and not the Watchtower truth.
In any event, I think you are correct. You should stay away from this site. You should find a site that consists of people who will agree with all the ridiculous and wacky things you claim.
Just to let you know, I am speaking from knowledge that I learned first hand. You are just repeating what someone told you. The internet is chock full of people like you who blindly put their trust in a human organization. You are not alone Frank. Sadly, you are not alone.

Ronde said...

Kimmy Jo

"The reason I asked you this question was because of your past comments reflecting that you have nothing to do with the watchtowers publications, now you said that they are usefull in "keeping the faith and putting it(the bible) to use" ."


I didn't say that I have nothing to do with the WTS publications, I said that I only use them when used in the meetings. I state that there is much more to Bible study aids than books and magazines. We have assemblies and meetings. Those are as much or more important of Bible study aids.

Ronde said...

GBLetters said:

"Frank, I have never left Jehovah. I left an organization that only claims to represent Jehovah. When I found out they did not I left it. I have never left Jehovah or his son Jesus Christ, in whom our salvation lies!"

Well, it is not about leaving Jehovah, it is leaving the congregation that Jesus heads; and doing so keeps you from God's word - meaning that the letters written by the apostles you would be missing by your not being part of the congregation.

Ronde said...

Alex.

Pssst

There is no such thing as a 'Watchtower Organization'.

Just to clue you in.

As you and everyone else is clueless.

Ronde said...

GBLetters said;

"The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is directly and solely responsible for all the abuse cases."

You are an absolute moron.


"They, along with those they appointed in roles of responsibility, are the ones to blame. "

You are a total joke.


The only appointed ones responsible for it are the parents.

Ronde said...

GBLetters cowardly stated:

"That is why they will never, ever, have an open forum and why they will never, ever engage in the debates of old."

And I courageously state:

I'm right here and waiting. So why is it that you all are the ones who are afraid to meet face to face and discuss anything?

"Independent study? Independent thinking? Are you kidding? These all spell destruction for the Watchtower and they are frantically trying to keep their members away from them. "

Then how is it that I am so strong in the faith? Oh, I don't worship the Watchtower.

JoePublish said...

Are you saying that you are part of the Governing Body? (So, it has 10 members now.)

Congratulations Ronde on you appointment! (I noticed how you had an answer for everything; no doubt the Holy Spirit was impressed with this ability of yours.)

Watch out all you "bad" JW parents now that Ronde is in charge. How dare you allow your children to be abused sexually and put our organization in such a bad light!

How dare you allow your children to trust anyone in our organization that much? I don't even care if it’s an elder, why did you allow them to trust him that much?

What were you [bad] parents thinking???

I don't want to hear how he won [called Grooming] your child’s confidence (despite your training about matters like this) and I certainly don't want to hear how he threatened him afterward. Your child didn’t “yell” or do “anything”. I don’t care if he’s only 5 years old either, what does age have to do with this? Didn’t you read the good example in the Bible about the young people putting Jehovah first?

I suppose we (the GB) are to blame in some connected way? And, don’t even try to blame our policies on this… don’t you know we are hand-picked by Jehovah God himself?

You know, now that Jehovah's appointment of the 144,000 has been re-opened, you too have a chance to be one of us (you know, what the Watchtower now calls that [new] generation!); so don’t blow it. Be submissive and just wait on Jehovah.

kimmy jo said...

no you don't worship the watchtower. but this is where you learn the bible from and the assemblies and conventions are also based on their material. So what now?

kimmy jo said...

ronde, frank, nathan and tom rook

You all display a lack of thinking ability.

Mostly you all reflect a loss of Godly qualitys within your ability to think, reason and show fellow feeling.

Ronde said...

Kimmy Jo just loves the personal attacks

kimmy jo said...

no you don't worship the watchtower. but this is where you learn the bible from and the assemblies and conventions are also based on their material. So what now?

ANSWER MY QUESTION, ronde.

my statement is not a personal attack, it is an observation...

"You all display a lack of thinking ability.

Mostly you all reflect a loss of Godly qualitys within your ability to think, reason and show fellow feeling."

Anonymous said...

Ronde is an amazing troll.

Ronde said...

Is that the most intelligent comment you can make?

An insult?

Well, that is why JWs have the truth.
The opposition can not communicate like adults.

Anonymous said...

oh purlease... such persecution you poor jws are going through... pathetic considering you go looking for it...