If you read through some of the recent comments, you will see that a poster named "TOM" called me a lot of horrible names (I forgive you Tom) and said that I spewed hate and venom. He also said that my posts contained unsubstantiated comments.
Well, Tom, this post is for you. I really thought that I was providing evidence for my comments. but maybe Tom is right. Anyway, from now on I am going to try and do better and really prove my points with a reference that Tom can respect.
Tom, when you read this, let me know how I'm doing.
Note: Disfellowshipping does not sever family ties.Those who simply cease to be involved in the faith are not shunned.
Tom?
19 comments:
Tom don't worry about this crazy guy, it is mad, and his madness is driving him crazy.
for your information governing body of lies, someone who is disfellowship can always repent and come back to Jehovah, every year the elders visits the disfellowship and see if they want to come back. not the apostates ones, you got it.
proof you want to proof your lies, why don't you give us proof that the watchtower is full of pedophiles. I am waiting.
I already gave you proof that you are wrong but you still want to continue in your madness, keep yakee yakk, keep yakee yak, while you are yakee yak the good news is being preached in all the earth. and many are still becoming witnesses. and by the way one doctor and one lawyer got baptize at my convention. a witness study with them ask question from the paragraph, and imagine the doctor and the lawyer answering the questions, what humility.
I thought Jehovah witnesses don't use their brain, they are all brainwash, ohhhhh
it seems like apostates are the ones trying to brainwash people
go figure
go figure
I think you do a fine job. You present the facts in a clear manner and point out Watchtower inconsistencies in a fair and easy to understand way. I use your site frequently on an Ex-jw board to show others what the JW's are up to lately, as you seem to be very up-to date.
I'm sorry you get so much flack from those who are unwilling to face reality, but, as you know, it comes with the territory.
Thank you for all your hard work!
Free and happy, thank you very much!
frank, so what if a doctor, a lawyer or even a scientist got baptized. Does this make the religion you practice true? No, it does not.
People, no matter who they are, experience different phases in their lives. Perhaps they are going through some emotional pain right now, or they might have recently lost a loved one. Professionals are no different than any of us and some of these are quite dumb. They can be mind controlled just like anyone else. Just remember the professionals who followed Jim Jones. They believed he was the messiah and gave their life for him. When it comes to the Bible and religion, some people turn their intelligence off.
All kinds of people study with the witnesses for all kinds of reasons.
I once had a bible study who was a practicing Jew. After about five studies he actually took off his yamulka and began coming to the Kingdom Hall. He felt that he was getting no respect from his wife or from his boss, but when he went to the Kingdom Hall they treated him like a rock star.
frank, you did not give me any proof that I was wrong about the pedophiles. What you refer to as proof was just a bunch of gibberish. No proof at all. Sorry.
Ihave a friend who is disfellowshipped. In 8 years he has received one visit from the elders. He is not an apostate. So much for being visited every year.
The Watchtower is lying about its shunning policy. It does break up families, especially when teenagers who were baptized at a very young age, get disfellowshiped.
Years later, they can be married and have good morals... but because they do not want to go back to the Kingdom Hall, they and their children are separated from family forever. It is cruel. Jesus was not baptized till he was 30? What does that teach Christians?
One other point. JWs are so hot on taking a scripture to impose a rule on the cong.
What about the parable of the Prodigal son? Look what sins he committed! Worse than most and yet when he wandered home... not out of remorse, did his father make him sit outside of the house for 6 months to a year...did he make him grovel to be reinstated to his favour? NO..he ran out to meet him.
Jesus showed how love was to be shown. The Governing Body is very selective with its teachings...Like the rest of religions, it makes the Bible say what it wants the Bible to say.
I have a great sense of humor, but it has often gotten me in trouble. But I enjoy it.
I have seen instance after instance after instance of the LGB screwing up even the simplest statements.
"Is the Watchtower lying about it's shunning policy?"
I have disfellowshipped relatives that I talk to on the phone about problems, family, and the things that concern both our familiess....
EXCEPT
Anything that has to do with what is going on in the congregation, or with anybody associated with it, or anything that has to do with religious topics in any way shape or form.
I have a relative that assures me she is going forward to try and be reinstated, and I hope that is true, but to give you an example...I sent her six Dr. Laura books, and some financial assistance..but not a word of Theocratic encouragement?
WHY?
She has no right to that information, or the spiritual fellowship that it entails.
She is still my relative.
Of course...there are people that go overboard and shun them in every regard, but the Bible does not teach that, and after years about being wrong about what to do, the Society has recognized that they were wrong, and we should be polite, helpfull if we can, concerned, etc., but not spiritually fellowship with them.
If you sing to a pig, it will just ruin your voice, and irritate the pig.
Actually, I like irritating pigs.
Every witness I know has the same attitude, but the ones the apostate knows are probably gnarly old hunchbacks who want to torture a disfellowshipped person.
(That was a joke, for those in Rio Linda)
Here is a good point to consider.... what does Jehovah God do to those who rebel or disobey...he just ignores them.
And they die one at a time...like insects.
No sweat.
The elders do not come and check on someone once a year LIKE THEY SHOULD? Gimme a break ... you are responsible for your life, not the WTB&TS, not the elders, no one but you.
It is just like the FBI or the marines.....if you don't measure up, you don't belong there.
You should be glad to find out you do not belong, and find somewhere you do.
So you have hurt feelings.
Duh!
There is a difference between males and females.....and MEN and WOMEN.
Tom.Rook@Technik-SA.US
What do you think you proof with your posting GBL? Nothing? Ok then you are right.
Tom, if you think what you wrote is official teaching you are definately lazy with your home bible study. the new book on last convention (not the youths book) was very EXPLICIT AGAIN about shunning family. the bible says not to speak with them AT ALL, only for URGENT family issues (like you need a signature or something) need to be solved.
if you did the things you wrote in your post please repent and seek help from the elders to get into a good standing before jehovah again.
When I come across a JW they look away in fear, trying to avoid me at all cost! If they only new the truth. (My story told previously) I think next time I will say, BOO! I was not disfellowshipped, just left.
tom,
you stated,
"Here is a good point to consider.... what does Jehovah God do to those who rebel or disobey...he just ignores them.
And they die one at a time...like insects.
No sweat."
I ask you this tom,
Where's the proof that Jehovah ignores those who rebel or disobey, aren't they the one's that need him most?
What you should more correctly say is this..."THE CONGREGATION OF JW WILL IGNORE THOSE WHO REBEL AND DISOBEY AS INSTRUCTED BY THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY."
you also stated "they die one at a time like insects...no sweat"
I say this,
Last time I checked JW's die like this also..."one at a time like insects...no sweat." Difference is one dies in peace the other die with tons of guilt for never doing enough for the Watchtower.
FYI...
Jehovah can be approached FREELY threw Christ outside the confines of the Watchtower and he does listen and care and bless.
Do You Shun Former Members?
LGB Could you post the Watchtower or Awake reference at the beginning of this post. Interested in tracing GB changing attitude over this issue. At one time those who disassociated themselves were not shunned, anyone got a scriptural basis for the current practice in shunning those dissasociated?
@ GBL,
if your arguments are refuted, all you say is "that is just rubbish and wrong. my arguments are right". But you don't manage to challenge a single line of those counter arguments. So may I ask you: Would you prefer that we just tell you "you article was rubbish and just wrong", or would you still prefer that we provide rationale why we think that your articles are wrong?
Tom, the question was not if you shun family members who are disfellowshipped. The question is did the Watchtower lie about its shunning policy.
Apparently it is more important for us JW to be
right, than to do what's right.
"LGB Could you post the Watchtower or Awake reference at the beginning of this post. Interested in tracing GB changing attitude over this issue. At one time those who disassociated themselves were not shunned, anyone got a scriptural basis for the current practice in shunning those dissasociated?"
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Hello. I took this directly from the Watchtower's website at watchtower.org. It was there a couple of months ago. It may or may not still be up as they change the content frequently.
"......if your arguments are refuted, all you say is "that is just rubbish and wrong. my arguments are right". But you don't manage to challenge a single line of those counter arguments. So may I ask you: Would you prefer that we just tell you "you article was rubbish and just wrong", or would you still prefer that we provide rationale why we think that your articles are wrong?"
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First of all that is not true.
I have never said "that is just rubbish and wrong. my arguments are right". I welcome counter arguments. All Jehovah's Witnesses should see for themselves just who and what they are worshipping.
If you think that my posts are wrong, please let me know. Because I am now going to provide you with proof and scriptural evidence, I only ask that you do the same. Thank you.
Ok here we go GBL:
I said: "Remember your article about the kingdom! I showed beyond any doubt that your assertions were wrong and that what you said about the kingdom and about the interpretation of JWs is wrong! Again, you never managed to present any counter arguments!"
You answered: "Beyobd any doubt? Oh Nathan, really. I did not respond because it was so silly, I really thought you were kidding. You were serious? Sorry, but your whole premise was riddled with error. But if that is what you want to believe, then go ahead. You're only deluding yourself."
That was all you had to say! So you did not present any counter arguments to my arguments! Nevertheless you called my arguments silly! Although you did not give any rationale for it!
And now you tell us that you never called counter arguments rubbish? You can't be serious about that! You called my arguments "silly" and "riddled with error". And since you did not change your article, you obviously still view it as right. And that is exactly what I said!
So the truth is, that I already let you know several times that I don't share your opinion and I presented evidence why your position is wrong. You, however, did not respond to my arguments, but you just called them silly. That was all you did. Nothing more. Not really much on your part. And now you tell us here that you have never done so, although I can present evidence for that. My quotations are taken from the "Watchtower Encourages It's Members to Lie Instead of "Waiting on Jehovah" thread. Go read it, if you don't believe me.
"And now you tell us that you never called counter arguments rubbish? You can't be serious about that! You called my arguments "silly" and "riddled with error". And since you did not change your article, you obviously still view it as right. And that is exactly what I said!"
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Nathan, I checked and you are correct. I apologize. I did find your argument silly but that is no excuse. I will look at it again when I have time and respond to it. Thank you.
"One other point. JWs are so hot on taking a scripture to impose a rule on the cong."
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Steven, this is absolutely true. The Watchtower can take an obscure little scripture and turn it into a hundred different rules. They are masters at it.
Take for instance the scriptures that has in it the words "the light is getting brighter." Have they ever really read the whole scripture? It has absolutely nothing to do with doctrinal change. But the Watchtower has practically built a religion on it, allowing them to make doctrinal changes on a whim and then pointing to that scripture as proof that it comes from the Bible.
And the witnesses shake their heads in agreement. Amazing!
GBL, back to the original post in this blog about the WTS paragraph about shunning.
This is written like a defense lawyer, with something to "hide".
I'm so disappointed in the leadership's lack of telling the "whole truth". They have developed a bad reputation for this and it's finally (via the Internet) coming back to bite them.
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