Saturday, September 13, 2008

November 1, 2008 Watchtower, Who Will Be Saved At Armegeddon


The November 1 Watchtower has an article entitled "Do Jehovah's Witnesses Believe That They Are The Only Ones Who Will Be Saved?"
The article goes on to say that Jehovah's Witnesses believe that ultimately God Will judge hearts, not them. They say it but do they truly believe it? Of course not! No matter what they say they believe that only Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved. And they wonder why people think that they are religious nuts!
The article gives an illustration of a lost hiker who desperately wants to be saved. Whether or not be will be saved depends on his response to help and says that the hiker may be to proud to accept help. Are they crazy? A hiker is lost and is desperate to be saved. Of course he is going to accept any help that comes his way. Where do they come up with these ridiculous illustrations? Who writes this crap?
One requirement of salvation is to make the father's name known just as Jesus did. No where in the Bible does Jesus use the name Jehovah. Not once, not at any time. Even when Jesus was praying in the Garden before his execution, he did not use that name.
This article is perfectly crafted, in true cult form. It is designed to fool outsiders into thinking they believe they're not the only ones to be saved, while reinforcing the "you need us and only us" message to the flock.
Sorry, but this obviously deceptive article got me all fired up!

41 comments:

kimmy jo said...

Not only did Jesus never say God's name but neither did the Jews...they felt it was to sacred.

It doesn't make sense that JW's use His nameas their ID and constantly in their speech. It is not right.

The artical is a joke!
They do not leave the judging to God like the article says...that's not true, that's funny! They are the most judgemental people on the planet...and with such confidence, arrogance and pride they hold themselves in such high regard as the only ones approved of by God.

What a JOKE!

kimmy jo said...

Look at the # 3 point in the article ...it says many people put their faith in human institutions not Gods kingdom gov.

Isn't the Watchtower a human institution?

Where in the scripture does it say that the Watchtower is appointed to represent Gods gov with Jesus as king??

DO NOT BE MISLED by the watchtower.

Berean said...

Well, right at point 1, we can exclude JWs from the list. I have seen more contempt, jealousy, gossip among JWs than I have seen love.

Also, look at that last sentence. "They also work hard to help others to be saved." Note that it doesn't say "help others strive towards working at hopefully getting saved", no, it simply says "to be saved". So there is a hint of certainty after all - the article concludes with a sentence that contradicts the premise of the article itself.

BroInFlorida said...

In my experience, either this article is "new light" and changes things 180 degrees or it's more spin. I'm going with spin.

Similar to the '99 WT that showed voting was a conscience issue; my father played it off that "legally" they HAD to write it that way but that nothing had really changed. You will still be disfellowshipped (er, disassociated) for voting, he says.

My father, an elder, told me that what the WT prints is what we follow. Anytime we read something contradictory in the Bible, his advice was to check the WT and go by that explanation instead of what's in the Bible; that reading the Bible alone is a "slippery slope" and "dangerous".

Huh??? That's right; his words exactly. I couldn't make this up if I tried.

The truth is JWs (bless their hearts) will go on putting more effort into what the latest WT says rather what their own Bibles tell them. And until they change that part of their indoctrination, they will continue to be tossed about by every glancing breeze of the most current WT article. They live for it.

Anonymous said...

This issue is of great interest to me. Would the producer of this site please post some information related to this issue mentioned here by BroInFlorida.

Similar to the '99 WT that showed voting was a conscience issue; my father played it off that "legally" they HAD to write it that way but that nothing had really changed. You will still be disfellowshipped (er, disassociated) for voting, he says.

JoePublish said...

Great posts Kimmy Jo and berean. And thank you SO MUCH for that personal experience Broinflorida.

The content of this article is most disturbing.

I agree so much with the point that the Bible is the basis for truth. Man-made intrepretations have lead to all the man-made Christian religions, many who "think" they are the sole possessors of "truth".

The writings (the techniques) in this article are so typical and I'm sure many JW's are de-sensitized (or simply too tired) to even notice the contradictions in their own publications.

It sure makes you wonder about the writers of these publications. Everything they write is so repetitious. There's never any "real" new light. New light is always a "correction" for some "error" appearing in "print".

When is the "generation" understanding going to change [yet again]? Can anyone give me any assurance that it won't change again???

hudsoncarl said...

Complete and utter fabrication!!!

Try Matthew 4:4, 7, 10; 21:42; 22:44; Mark 5:19; 12:29, 30, 36; Luke 4:8, 12; 20:37; John 6:45; 12:38.

I wish you weren't so contemptuous.

BroInFlorida said...

The issue on voting is November 1, 1999 WT.

slouch said...

You guys need to wise up! Sometimes the WT has to print things that are to be taken the other way. They do this for political and legal reasons, and all the brothers/sisters understand this unspoken rule. It's called theocratic strategy.

Read my lips: WE CAN"T VOTE! IT HURTS JEHOVAH! PERIOD!

GanGrene1975 said...

slouch is on crack!! "Sometimes the WT has to print things that are to be taken the other way. They do this for political and legal reasons, and all the brothers/sisters understand this unspoken rule."

This #@!* drives me crazy! Unspoken rules, taking the opposite position on things they print (sometimes)?? What are they, a half-secret society who release rules to their people by a numerilogical code only they can decipher? Gimme a break!

This is Fantasy Land, my friends.

Ronde said...

"Jehovah's Witnesses believe that ultimately God Will judge hearts, not them. "

That is true and that is what we believe. But we also believe in not taking chances and in obeying the Bible.

The Bible says to take in knowledge, get baptized and preach, etc.

Ones who do not do so do not have good hearts, and good hearted ones will listen to the kingdom message and obey it.

Ronde said...

Kimmy Jo said;
"Not only did Jesus never say God's name but neither did the Jews...they felt it was to sacred."

You were there and heard everything he said?

"It doesn't make sense that JW's use His nameas their ID and constantly in their speech. It is not right."

It makes sense because the Bible says it does.

"They do not leave the judging to God like the article says...that's not true, that's funny! They are the most judgemental people on the planet...and with such confidence, arrogance and pride they hold themselves in such high regard as the only ones approved of by God.
"

Not judging but simply looking at the evidence.

Ronde said...

Kimmy Jo spewed:
"Isn't the Watchtower a human institution?

Where in the scripture does it say that the Watchtower is appointed to represent Gods gov with Jesus as king??"

No, the Watchtower is a printing faclity. Not an institution. You belong in an institution.

The watchtower was not appointed, Jehovah's Witnesses were.

Ronde said...

bro in fl said:
"In my experience, either this article is "new light" and changes things 180 degrees or it's more spin. I'm going with spin."

No, it is an example of your not understanding things.

"Similar to the '99 WT that showed voting was a conscience issue; my father played it off that "legally" they HAD to write it that way but that nothing had really changed. You will still be disfellowshipped (er, disassociated) for voting, he says."

Voting in non-political issues is a conscience matter. We don't vote in political elections because we don't support candidates.

"My father, an elder, told me that what the WT prints is what we follow. Anytime we read something contradictory in the Bible, his advice was to check the WT and go by that explanation instead of what's in the Bible; that reading the Bible alone is a "slippery slope" and "dangerous"."

Well, the WT does not disagree with the Bible, but you should obey your father also.

"The truth is JWs (bless their hearts) will go on putting more effort into what the latest WT says rather what their own Bibles tell them. "

Is there a difference?

"And until they change that part of their indoctrination, they will continue to be tossed about by every glancing breeze of the most current WT article. They live for it."

is that bad?

Ronde said...

to anon:

Voting, in non-political ballots has always been a conscience matter.

Since what happens in a voting booth is private, it is no one's business anyway.

Ronde said...

Slouch said:
"You guys need to wise up! Sometimes the WT has to print things that are to be taken the other way."

What is wrong with the article? It says that JWs believe that we have the right religion or we would change.

As it says that those who want to be saved, must want to be saved and cooperate with the savior.
My view is, What sort of convert are you if the first thing your Lord asks of you, you won't do.


" They do this for political and legal reasons, and all the brothers/sisters understand this unspoken rule. It's called theocratic strategy."

AGain, what is wrong with this article. It is correct.

"Read my lips: WE CAN"T VOTE! IT HURTS JEHOVAH! PERIOD!""

Well, your lips are not the arbitor of truth. God's word does not say what you say. We just don't vote in political matters, we can vote in non-political things.

Nathan said...

Slouch, yould you please quit from writing untrue and degrading postings about JWs?

Anonymous said...

He is not called Slouch for nothing.

kimmy jo said...

ronde, you are definetly effected by what I have said, and it has ruffeled your feathers.....so, I will say it again....


"Not only did Jesus never say God's name but neither did the Jews...they felt it was to sacred.
It doesn't make sense that JW's use His nameas their ID and constantly in their speech. It is not right.
The artical is a joke!
They do not leave the judging to God like the article says...that's not true, that's funny! They are the most judgemental people on the planet...and with such confidence, arrogance and pride they hold themselves in such high regard as the only ones approved of by God.
What a JOKE!"

"Look at the # 3 point in the article ...it says many people put their faith in human institutions not Gods kingdom gov.
Isn't the Watchtower a human institution?
Where in the scripture does it say that the Watchtower is appointed to represent Gods gov with Jesus as king??

DO NOT BE MISLED by the watchtower."

Nathan said...

Well some of those posters in this thread several times already said that JWs would teach that only they will be saved and that salvation is dependent on meeting attendance, ministry hours etc. Although all of those assertions of these posters were simply not true and false testimony, they kept bringing forth these assertions again and again. And then they complained about it by saying that it was so bad of JWs to say that.

Now GBL presented more evidence that all those assertions were wrong. He posted the scan of a Watchtower article. Were all those who were insulting JWs because of their claimed “who survives Armageddon”-teaching satisfied now? No! They just said, that this is double standard now and not true.

Now I sak you, what would you call such a reaction from those non-JWs apologists? I would call it double standard indeed!

kimmy jo said...

nathan said...
"Well some of those posters in this thread several times already said that JWs would teach that only they will be saved and that salvation is dependent on meeting attendance, ministry hours etc."

Those actions of 'meeting attendance and field service, hours, etc...' are what the Watchtower deems 'exercising your faith' for salvation and if you are not 'doing' these things you are not a JW and are not 'working out your salvation', according to the Watchtower Organization.

Nathan said...

since people who do not go out in the ministry and who do not attend meetings will still be JWs, if nothing else happens, even according to your reasoning, your last reply is wrong kimmy

J said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
J said...

J said...

Nathan states:
"since people who do not go out in the ministry and who do not attend meetings will still be JWs, if nothing else happens, even according to your reasoning, your last reply is wrong kimmy"

You and Kimmy are both right. If a JW does not turn in time he is no longer counted and technically is not a JW. Granted he is not given a excommunicated status. It really is something unique to JWs from what I know of other churches.

I know you both know this so I am not trying to 'correct' anyone per se. I think we all just need to try and see things from the perspective they were stated rather than call each others liars - unless it is true.

kimmy jo said...

"Those actions of 'meeting attendance and field service, hours, etc...' are what the Watchtower deems 'exercising your faith' for salvation and if you are not 'doing' these things you are not a JW and are not 'working out your salvation', according to the Watchtower Organization."....
...and therfore you are inactive not a JW(cause you are not 'witnesing') and unlikely to be saved.

Anonymous said...

J said:
"You and Kimmy are both right. If a JW does not turn in time he is no longer counted and technically is not a JW. Granted he is not given a excommunicated status. It really is something unique to JWs from what I know of other churches."

That is not true. If a person misses a month, that one is an irregular publisher. If one misses 6 months, that one is inactive. But the person is still one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Anonymous said...

It is sad that you all don't follow

1 Peter 2:17

Honor [men] of all sorts, have love for the whole association of brothers, be in fear of God, have honor for the king.

J said...

Why 1 Peter 2:17 because we argue like children? Or some other reason?

'If one misses 6 months, that one is inactive. But the person is still one of Jehovah's Witnesses.'

It's all how you look at it. When I was a Kool-Aid drinker I didn't consider you a JW unless you were getting twenty ; -)

Nathan said...

man kimmy as if field service was the only possibility to witness...

and it is not true, that you are no JW if you are inactive.

but obviously you didn't get the point

Anonymous said...

You are all wrong..........

If someone says he is one of Jehovah's witnesses and does not live by Jehovah's standards set out in the Bible that person is a LIAR! They are not JW no matter what they want to say. All that irregular and inactive stuff is for recods kept by the Society.

And all you traitors who still frequent those Kingdom Halls and the Judas who runs this Post know full well you are liars and traitors to Jehovah God.

WALLE said...

Thank you for saying that, the above anon.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Nathan said...

Not everybody who is inactive for a certain time is a liar!

And that is why such people remain JWs. Maybe they lost control for some time or maybe they are burdened down through live and just don’t manage to preach for a certain time. That doesn’t make them evil.

kimmy jo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
kimmy jo said...

I heard it said in the Memorial Talk..."if you are NOT talking about Jehovah and his Kingdom you are NOT one of JW's. JW's are the ones who will be saved." I did not exclusively mean 'field service' because their is informal witnessing. They should have said, if you are not turning in time, which reflects your witnessing, you are NOT a JW....It is true in a sense....This was in the memorial speech likely to pressure and guilt those who were once more active and those who only come once a year.

Anonymous said...

if the wtbts would apologize even once for horrid information/beliefs that all of a sudden disappear with "new light" i'd have a little respect for that.

but they continue to just make blanket statements, like god actually is calling them in, without ever mentioning how awful they continue to treat non-jws (those who know what they teach and know there's something wrong.)

like an abusive husband smacking his wife and then making her dinner.

the wtbts needs to go through a 12 step program. :)

J said...

To the anon recommending the 12 step program. Right on.

To the ‘other’ anon (would you people make a stupid alias) who states:

"And all you traitors who still frequent those Kingdom Halls and the Judas who runs this Post know full well you are liars and traitors to Jehovah God."

Dude. If you honestly think that, why are you here? Many so called ‘apostates’ are Christians. A former Mormon who becomes a JW is an ‘apostate’ Mormon. So apostate "<"insert church here">" needs to be differentiated from apostate Christian or one abandoning Christ.

The only people that have difficulty with this premise are people who belong to cults and high control religions.

Anonymous said...

Ahh yes the PUBLIC watchtower!

Won't see that namby pamby drivel in the Study Edition!

Voice of Reason said...

Why do you care what the Watchtower says?

Anonymous said...

Kimmy Jo I post this reply to

"Not only did Jesus never say God's name but neither did the Jews...they felt it was to sacred.",

with some facts that may help you understand some things a little better. On that note, try to get your facts straight on other points as well unless you prefer to later stand corrected.

NO ONE can say for sure exactly when orthodox Jews ceased to pronounce God's name out loud and instead substituted the Hebrew words for God and Sovereign Lord. Some believe that God's name passed out of everyday use well before Jesus' time. But there is strong evidence that the high priest continued to pronounce it at religious services at the temple—particularly on the day of Atonement—right up until the temple was destroyed in 70 C.E. Hence, when Jesus was on earth, the pronunciation of the name was known, although perhaps it was not widely used.

Why did the Jews cease to pronounce God's name? Probably, at least in part, because of misapplying the words of the third commandment: "You must not take up the name of Jehovah your God in a worthless way." (Exodus 20:7) Of course, this commandment did not prohibit the use of God's name. Otherwise, why did God's ancient servants such as David use it so freely and still enjoy Jehovah's blessing? And why did God pronounce it to Moses and tell Moses to explain to the Israelites who it was that had sent him?Psalm 18:1-3, 6, 13; Exodus 6:2-8.

Nevertheless, by Jesus' time there was a strong tendency to take the reasonable commands of God and interpret them in a highly unreasonable way. For example, the fourth of the Ten Commandments obligated the Jews to observe the seventh day of each week as a day of rest, a Sabbath. (Exodus 20:8-11) Orthodox Jews took that command to ridiculous lengths, making innumerable rules to govern even the smallest act that could or could not be done on the Sabbath. It was doubtless in the same spirit that they took a reasonable command, that God's name must not be dishonored, to a most unreasonable extreme, saying that the name should not even be pronounced.*

Jesus and the Name

Would Jesus have followed such an unscriptural tradition? Hardly! He certainly did not hold back from doing works of healing on the Sabbath, even though this meant breaking the man-made rules of the Jews and even risking his life. (Matthew 12:9-14) In fact, Jesus condemned the Pharisees as hypocrites because their traditions went beyond God's inspired Word. (Matthew 15:1-9) Hence, it is unlikely that he would have held back from pronouncing God's name, especially in view of the fact that his own name, Jesus, meant "Jehovah is Salvation."

On one occasion, Jesus stood up in a synagogue and read a portion of the scroll of Isaiah. The section he read was what we today call Isaiah 61:1, 2, where God's name appears more than once. (Luke 4:16-21) Would he have refused to pronounce the divine name there, substituting "Lord" or "God"? Of course not. That would have meant following the unscriptural tradition of the Jewish religious leaders. Rather, we read: "He was teaching them as a person having authority, and not as their scribes."—Matthew 7:29.

In fact, as we learned earlier, he taught his followers to pray to God: "Let your name be sanctified." (Matthew 6:9) And in prayer on the night before his execution, he said to his Father: "I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world . . . Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me."—John 17:6, 11.

Regarding these references by Jesus to God's name, the book Der Name Gottes (The Name of God) explains, on page 76: "We must appreciate the astonishing fact that the traditional Old Testament understanding of God's revelation is that it is a revelation of his name and that this is carried on through to the final parts of the Old Testament, yes, continues even into the last parts of the New Testament, where, for example at John 17:6, we read: 'I have made your name manifest.'"

It would be most unreasonable to think that Jesus held back from using God's name, especially when he quoted from those portions of the Hebrew Scriptures that contained it.

Elijah said...

Pertaining to the name Jehova Yehowah whatever, it is not a magic word and knowing it doesnt save you. Knowing Jehovah himself is what saves you, and you know him if you know what that name means...as He is what he is (or proves to be) it means to accept God as he is, or as he proves himself, and not as you think he is, or think he ought to be. It says that as Jehovah he proves himself as the results of -physical laws, -the results of moral laws, -the results of good, and he predicts the results of bad, all this being Jehovah or a lesson from him if not the behavior he wants you to be. In other words bad things are not Jehovah's wants, but the results are still a lesson from him; it is truth to learn by. NEXT issue. Is the watchtower ordained by Jehovah. Yes the Christ was corrupted just as Noah's words were, so that it became ritual worship not Jehovah. Water is cleaned by chlorine not by prayer nor by Pope (Papa) blessing it. It can be over chlorinated to kill you. And to act on YOUR prayer for clean water means you seek chlorine not the Pope's blessing.
In this way Pro-TEST-ants of that Papa were a christian breakthru or birth, but if they return in the same thinking then they become not the kingdom of God but a daughter of that Mother church. The Adventist too then sought coming of christ so it broke off, but it teaches the same and it too becomes daughter of that Mother church (whore of whores, mother and daughters). Proof? Jerusalem was called a whore, that's enough proof. So The WatchTower was ordained but not to be Christ, not to be Christ-bride, but to be mother of the Christ, the Christ-bride. This is proven by the 94 years to build New Jerusalem in 537 BC (1914) where building the temple failed in 523 BC (1928) but started up with God's name on it says Darius in 520 BC (1931) and completed in 5 years 516/515 BC (1935/1936) before Passover. This is the last year in the Bible 443-442 BC (2008-2009) and that year Malachi said Elijah would come. Jehovah will prove who Elijah is, he does not prove it by flaunting himself as such.

Elijah said...

All those saved wil be Jehovah's witnesses because only those who follow the JWs to the safety of the mountains will live. And those JWs will and must baptize anyone and everyone no matter what age or how young that it may be said you are accepting this day that this is Armageddon and are journey is to salvation this very day. So it was that all of Israel passed thru the water of the Red Sea despite half of them were Shemites who preceded Jacob's entry to Egypt, they having found Memphis itself at the death of Peleg 517 years before Exodus in 1513 BC. The record is true, the Hyksos left in their 518th year and they became JW's. So too as Noah saved his family and as Rahab the whore who ceased her business for 7 days, JWs will save all those who follow them out of Armageddon, because JW or not, if you stay behind like Lot's wife you will burn in the fire and then drown in the water because Jehovah is baptizing the whole planet Earth accept the mountain tops. Anyone who seeks a mountain top alone better think twice because animals fleeing to the mountains will be hungry. No one in the mountain tops will live without congregating together in safety.