Fear and guilt are the main components that the Watchtower uses to keep it's members in line. Just consider the language they use for those who simply no longer believe their teachings, as well as those they feel are not doing enough.
You have to keep up with the latest truths or you'll be left behind if you don't keep up with Jehovah's organization and new light ."
Translation : You won't be acceptable or spiritual if you don't do your personal study and keep up with new truths.
If you are not advancing spiritually , ie, pioneering, ministerial servant, or elder, you are regressing and going backwards .
Translation: You will be considered a weak , unacceptable publisher who others will avoid if you don't "advance" spiritually.
We as Jehovah's servants are a privileged and special people chosen to be saved into the paradise.
Translation : If you are not a Jehovah's Witness you aren't privileged and special and won't be saved into the paradise.
We have to follow the faithful and discreet slave as appointed as Jehovah's spokesman, even if we don't understand .
Translation : You have to believe whatever the "faithful slave" says because they are Jehovah's spokesman.
Any negative comments regarding the organization are attacks are coming from Satan.
Translation : Anything you hear about the organization that is not complimentary, don't believe it, they are lies inspired by Satan.
If anyone leaves the organization, it's because of bad heart motives.
Translation: No one would leave this organization except those who want to practice what is bad in Jehovah's eyes.
.....and then, of course:
How can you leave Jehovah?
Don't you know Armageddon is coming soon?
Stay within the fold
The world outside
Satan's wicked world
The spirit of the world
Love of Jehovah will move us to do more in his precious ministry.
We should differentiate between the tenderly compassionate god of the gospel and the kind of vicious, severe, unforgiving god projected by the Watchtower. The two do not coincide. The Jehovah's Witness god is an artifact created for the sole purpose of achieving mind control through a ruthless and destructive authority group. Jehovah's Witnesses have actually regressed back to the old testament set up of rules and more rules which have caused many to be stumble. Jesus said that he set us free of those rules, but the Watchtower does not seem to have gotten that message.
52 comments:
Whew! I don't miss the fear and intimidation tactics used by the cult.
Praise the Lord!
Yawn,
More made up stuff for your propaganda machine.
"made up stuff"
Sorry, we've seen it personally. Fear and intimidation is alive and well in each and every Kingdom Hall.
Publishers are either afraid their loving God will kill them at Armageddon, or they're afraid the elders will disfellowship them.
the pastor said...
"I don't miss the fear and intimidation tactics"
When I read it, it sure sounds like encouragement to do what is right. All Christians should be able to agree that we are living in critical times, and need to encourage one another.
I seen this type of wording used by various corporations to help foster a company culture. Is Disney, for example, a cult?
GBL is very selective in these quotes because he omits all the warm and loving words.
"I seen this type of wording used by various corporations to help foster a company culture. Is Disney, for example, a cult?"
So you admit that the JW faith has become like a corporation. Personally, I wouldn't want to work for a company where employees are taught to be full of themselves and afraid of management. If things really work like that at Disney, then yes, Disney can be likened to a cult. Remember, religion is not necessarily about worshipping God, it can take many forms, including the reverence of a man-made organization over the head of the congregation.
Anonymous said: More made up stuff for your propaganda machine.
Hello, I am here to say that I have been around the watchtower for 40 years. 27 of those years I have been a baptized publisher and I am sad to say that this is not made up stuff.
Believe me, if you want to keep the love of your family and friends and not be shunned, you better keep your head down and your mouth shut about any questions or doubts you have.
I am not anonymous. Call me Lorenzo
Ya, but at FIRST they get you feeling full of specialness because Jehovah SELECTED you!
THEN the fear, THEN the guilt.
The "specialness" they feel in them breeds arrogance and disdain for the world and humans around them, which in turn is hate for anything other than the org. At this point they have lost all sensitivity and common sense and can't wait for destruction of those around them.
Their ARROGANCE is in the air where ever they are and is smells like Limburger.
I can't speak for anyone else but I am a Jehovah's Witness out of love, not out of fear.
You have to keep up with the latest truths or you'll be left behind if you don't keep up with Jehovah's organization and new light ."
Translation : You won't be acceptable or spiritual if you don't do your personal study and keep up with new truths.
Number of times in the last 50 years that The Watchtower has used the term “new light” used to refer to Jehovah’s Witnesses’ teachings : 10 (Last time May 15, 1995)
Number of web pages containing term “new light” and “Watchtower” (according to Google): 49,900
It seems like apostates talk about “new light” considerably more than The Watchtower does!
We as Jehovah's servants are a privileged and special people chosen to be saved into the paradise.
Translation : If you are not a Jehovah's Witness you aren't privileged and special and won't be saved into the paradise.
I hardly think this claim is unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses. It’s certainly not unusual for a religion to consider its members to be God’s people. Certainly Christ and the Apostles believed that the congregation members were privileged, special, saved:
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Joh 8:24 if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
You have to believe whatever the "faithful slave" says because they are Jehovah's spokesman.
Are you saying that you should be able to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses without actually believing the doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses? I don't think that there is anything inherently unreasonable or even remotely surprising about the fact that Witnesses are expected to believe their doctrines.
Whether or not to believe what The Watchtower publishes is a personal choice. If you do not believe it, then the most sensible thing would be not to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses. If you are sure that you no longer believe it, no-one is forcing you to stay.
But the fact remains that the overwhelming majority of the seven million or so Jehovah's Witnesses DO accept the governing body's position. It is not fair for people who do not believe that to try to hijack our organization for their own ends.
Publishers are either afraid their loving God will kill them at Armageddon, or they're afraid the elders will disfellowship them.
I disagree with that. We do what we do because we believe it, not because we're afraid of Armageddon or disfellowshipping.
To say otherwise is like saying that the main reason most men haven't murdered their wives is because they'll go to jail if they do. Of course it's true, they WILL go to jail if they murder their wives, but there is a much more reasonable explanation why they haven't done so: they love their wives.
"You have to believe whatever the "faithful slave" says because they are Jehovah's spokesman."
The problem with this is simple. Some of the teachings are not found in the Bible. For example, you will be disfellowshipped if you take (or even promote) the taking of red blood cells as medical treatment. Nobody will blink an eye if choose to accept hemoglobin.
This is one of the unique teachings that comes from Jehovah's Witnesses, not the Bible.
Do you see the difference?
As far as JWs considering themselves to be special, there is a BIG difference between JWs and 90% of religions that identify themselves as 'Christian'. Those 90% consider each other brothers and sisters in Christ. They do no label each other as 'false'. Rather, they believe they are all Christians, they respect each other, with Christ in common. Their similarities outweigh their differences.
This is in much contrast to JWs. The atmosphere within the JW organization is a distinct Us vs. Them attitude. Every other church is considered to be demonic, run by the Devil and his demons, directly. No non-JW's faith or beliefs are respected. They are scoffed at and looked down upon.
'Whether or not to believe what The Watchtower publishes is a personal choice. If you do not believe it, then the most sensible thing would be not to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses. If you are sure that you no longer believe it, no-one is forcing you to stay.'
I was brought up as a JW. I had little choice as a child wanting to please my dad and I did believe. It was many years later I found out it was not the truth.
I did then have a choice. Leave, with my integrity intact, and lose friends and family. Stay and keep my friends, but live a life false to myself.
No one forces you to stay, true, but the pressures faced in leaving are many and so it is not just the simple decision you make it out to be. And of course, if you disassociate yourself, then you are looked upon as wicked and not only do you lose friends and family, they will not even talk to you. You are dead to them.
That is just wrong.
this post is essentially jehovah's witness 101 in a nutshell. great job.
keep up the good work.
i love how the scared and angry jws come on here with their comments...always arrows pointing out, never reflective of the harm the jws as an organization has done from the beginning of its inception, when many of the apocalypse religions started.
i understand fear of belief change and wish i got out earlier than i did....it's refreshing.
I wish someone would keep Hansel in line.
"When I read it, it sure sounds like encouragement to do what is right. All Christians should be able to agree that we are living in critical times, and need to encourage one another."
Yes, they are so selective in what they highlight because they have an agenda.
Berean said:
"So you admit that the JW faith has become like a corporation. Personally, I wouldn't want to work for a company where employees are taught to be full of themselves and afraid of management."
Well, you are a negative nelly aren't you?
Lorenzo said:
"Hello, I am here to say that I have been around the watchtower for 40 years. 27 of those years I have been a baptized publisher and I am sad to say that this is not made up stuff."
How can you be around the Watchtower for 40 years but be bapitzed for 27?
I have been baptized 22 years ago but only around the Watchtower for 2 weeks when working temp construction work. So you don't know what you are talking about.
"Believe me, if you want to keep the love of your family and friends and not be shunned, you better keep your head down and your mouth shut about any questions or doubts you have."
What is there to have doubts about. This is the truth and the true religion.
But why are you all so full of yourselves to believe that what you think is necessary to mess up your family's life?
"I am not anonymous. Call me Lorenzo "
I call you stupid.
Ronde returns!
How was 'Service' today?
Did those elders explain to you that you're a borderline apostate?
Paul said:
"I can't speak for anyone else but I am a Jehovah's Witness out of love, not out of fear."
Well you do speak for all other Jehovah's Witnesses as that is true of us also.
the ones who think it is fear have left because they don't know and love Jehovah.
"I disagree with that. We do what we do because we believe it, not because we're afraid of Armageddon or disfellowshipping."
I agree with this.
"To say otherwise is like saying that the main reason most men haven't murdered their wives is because they'll go to jail if they do. Of course it's true, they WILL go to jail if they murder their wives, but there is a much more reasonable explanation why they haven't done so: they love their wives."
I agree with this.
""You have to believe whatever the "faithful slave" says because they are Jehovah's spokesman."
I don't exactly agree. We don't know who the FDS is.
But whoever it is, we believe it because it is biblical and right.
"The problem with this is simple. Some of the teachings are not found in the Bible. For example, you will be disfellowshipped if you take (or even promote) the taking of red blood cells as medical treatment. Nobody will blink an eye if choose to accept hemoglobin."
You know. No one cares what one does. I believe hemoglobin is red blood cells so I would not take either.
"This is one of the unique teachings that comes from Jehovah's Witnesses, not the Bible."
Well the Bible says to abstain from blood and red blood cells are blood.
Ronde says: "Well the Bible says to abstain from blood and red blood cells are blood."
Explain why hemoglobin is OK, from the Bible?
Ronde says: "I don't exactly agree. We don't know who the FDS is. But whoever it is, we believe it because it is biblical and right."
That one statement summarizes why Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult.
Anonymous said...
Publishers are either afraid their loving God will kill them at Armageddon, or they're afraid the elders will disfellowship them.
I disagree with that. We do what we do because we believe it, not because we're afraid of Armageddon or disfellowshipping.
To say otherwise is like saying that the main reason most men haven't murdered their wives is because they'll go to jail if they do. Of course it's true, they WILL go to jail if they murder their wives, but there is a much more reasonable explanation why they haven't done so: they love their wives.
My reply: Take away the consequences for murdering your wife and see how many men still love their wives.
Take away the consequences for not agreeing with "present truth" as printed by the WTS and see how vocal publishers would become on the inside.
If Jehovah's Witnesses abandoned their forced shunning policy, I believe that more than 20% of their memberships would leave and never come back.
Most of us apostates know several undercover apostates that must continue going to meetings, for family reasons. We also know of older Bethel family members that are apostates, but cannot leave, as they have no money, nowhere to go.
VOR what will you do if the elders find you posting on this site? Do you feel that they will just overlook it?
I disagree with that. We do what we do because we believe it, not because we're afraid of Armageddon or disfellowshipping.
To say otherwise is like saying that the main reason most men haven't murdered their wives is because they'll go to jail if they do. Of course it's true, they WILL go to jail if they murder their wives, but there is a much more reasonable explanation why they haven't done so: they love their wives.
My reply: Take away the consequences for murdering your wife and see how many men still love their wives.
Take away the consequences for not agreeing with "present truth" as printed by the WTS and see how vocal publishers would become on the inside.
What you have written is so extraordinary that I can't believe you actually think that or that you gave the matter any thought at all before you posted. Do you really believe that most men would murder their wives if it were legal to do so?
If that is the case then I'm afraid there's nothing I could say that would help you. You obviously have a very jaded and cynical view of people.
I was brought up as a JW. I had little choice as a child wanting to please my dad and I did believe. It was many years later I found out it was not the truth.
I did then have a choice. Leave, with my integrity intact, and lose friends and family. Stay and keep my friends, but live a life false to myself.
I do have some sympathy with some people in this situation and that's why I believe baptism should not be hurried. But I would point out that the decision to get baptized is still a personal one. No-one makes you do it. If you do it for the wrong motive, then obviously you will have to face the consequences.
It's the Bible that says not to those who bring a different teaching, so we can't change that. It emphasizes the importance of making a decision and then letting your yes mean yes.
No one forces you to stay, true, but the pressures faced in leaving are many and so it is not just the simple decision you make it out to be.
I'm sure it's not a simple decision or an easy one, but why should it be? If you gamble your house on a horse and lose, then you can't go back and complain how unfair it is that you're losing your house. You knew what you were doing when you made the bet.
And of course, if you disassociate yourself, then you are looked upon as wicked and not only do you lose friends and family, they will not even talk to you. You are dead to them.
I don't think they necessarily look upon you as wicked (although that would depend to some extent on your behavior). I remember a brother I knew disassociated himself about 11 years ago. I know I didn't hate him or think of him as wicked. I hoped he would come back. Eventually, he did.
I hope you do, although I understand that's probably not what you want at the moment.
anon wrote: "But I would point out that the decision to get baptized is still a personal one. No-one makes you do it."
Sigh.
Same old crap.
Consider this analogy: A hostage victim held by his captor, with a gun placed to his head, could choose to run away. However, the very real threat of being shot and killed serves to eliminate such a choice. Thus, if you're scared that you'll die at Armageddon - just around the corner - baptism is not exactly optional. Unless, of course, you want to be slaughtered along with all of the Chinese, just around the corner.
My reply: Take away the consequences for murdering your wife and see how many men still love their wives.
Take away the consequences for not agreeing with "present truth" as printed by the WTS and see how vocal publishers would become on the inside.
Anonymous said:
What you have written is so extraordinary that I can't believe you actually think that or that you gave the matter any thought at all before you posted. Do you really believe that most men would murder their wives if it were legal to do so?
If that is the case then I'm afraid there's nothing I could say that would help you. You obviously have a very jaded and cynical view of people.
My reply: Look who is cynical and jaded! I left the question open ended and didn't answer it! You're trying to put words into my mouth by making it seem that I said something I didn't say. As most people would discern, it was a thought-provoking question, not meant to be interpreted in a quantitative manner, but to induce you to think about the possibilities when consequences are removed.
Can you imagine that? Can you picture the possibilities? If the consequences were removed, how many people would be speaking up inside the congregation? Can you wrap your mind around that? ;)
Consider this analogy: A hostage victim held by his captor, with a gun placed to his head, could choose to run away. However, the very real threat of being shot and killed serves to eliminate such a choice. Thus, if you're scared that you'll die at Armageddon - just around the corner - baptism is not exactly optional.
The analogy doesn't hold and here is why: If you don't believe the end is coming, then what is there to be afraid of? There would certainly be no point in getting baptized.
But if you do believe Armageddon is coming, then you presumably also believe everything else the Bible says, including Jehovah's personality and qualities, everything he has done and will do, the ransom, the paradise, the resurrection --- then you may well choose to serve such a wonderful God and therefore you'll want to get baptized. Fear of Armageddon doesn't really come into it.
Or of course, if you prefer, you can join the Catholic church and be terrified of hell fire - a fate rather worse than everlasting destruction, don't you think?
As far as JWs considering themselves to be special, there is a BIG difference between JWs and 90% of religions that identify themselves as 'Christian'. Those 90% consider each other brothers and sisters in Christ.
Ah yes, brothers and sisters in Christ.
I wonder if the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland considered each other 'brothers and sisters in Christ'. If they did, that didn't stop them from blowing each other up.
What about the professed Christians of Rwanda and Burundi who participated in the genocide? Were they "brothers and sisters in Christ"?
How about Argentine Catholics who fought British Catholics in 1982?
American Catholics and Protestants who fought German Catholics and Protestants in two world wars?
How about the Russian Orthodox Christians who recently fought against their Georgian "brothers and sisters in Christ"?
They do no[t] label each other as 'false'.
And yet their doctrines contradict each other.
Jesus' apostles didn't hesitate to speak out against what they believed was false.
You won't be acceptable or spiritual if you don't do your personal study and keep up with new truths.
I would like to contrast the above statement with what the current study edition of The Watchtower (July 15, 2008) actually says:
What if your circumstances do not allow you to study in advance everything that will be considered at the congregation meetings? You can determine how much you can prepare and do that as well as possible. By adjusting our immediate goals, we can stay active and happy.
Fear and guilt are the main components that the Watchtower uses to keep it's members in line. Just consider the language they use for those who simply no longer believe their teachings, as well as those they feel are not doing enough.
I challenge the truthfulness of the above statement, in view of the what it says in the current study edition of The Watchtower:
"To experience joy and satisfaction in our service to God, we need to cultivate reasonable expectations in the light of our own abilities and circumstances. If we strive to attain unreasonable goals regardless of the cost, we subject ourselves to undue tension....
"The word translated 'reasonable' in the Bible contains the thought of being considerate. Its literal meaning is 'yielding.' (Jas. 3:17, ftn) The word also conveys the sense of not being overly strict. So, then, if we are reasonable, we will be able to take a balanced look at our circumstances...
"We need to learn to recognize the signs that may tell us that we are going beyond our own limits.
"Remembering that God is not a strict taskmaster will help us to be modest in what we expect of ourselves, recognizing our limitations."
I don't see any appeal to fear or guilt here. Quite the opposite. Again, GBL and certain others are trying to paint a picture that is quite different from the reality.
"If Jehovah's Witnesses abandoned their forced shunning policy, I believe that more than 20% of their memberships would leave and never come back.
Most of us apostates know several undercover apostates that must continue going to meetings, for family reasons. We also know of older Bethel family members that are apostates, but cannot leave, as they have no money, nowhere to go."
The answer is simple. Stop being apostate and return to loving Jehovah.
"VOR what will you do if the elders find you posting on this site? Do you feel that they will just overlook it?"
They know I defend the faith. And I would expect them to defend me.
"What if your circumstances do not allow you to study in advance everything that will be considered at the congregation meetings? You can determine how much you can prepare and do that as well as possible. By adjusting our immediate goals, we can stay active and happy.
"
I say: Know the Pattern of healthful words and one is always prepared.
'I do have some sympathy with some people in this situation and that's why I believe baptism should not be hurried. But I would point out that the decision to get baptized is still a personal one. No-one makes you do it. If you do it for the wrong motive, then obviously you will have to face the consequences.'
I would point out that at 13 I was encouraged by my elders (not cong elders as they weren't invented till 1972) to be baptized. As a child still, I wanted to please them and please Jehovah.
I didnt do it for the wrong motive, I believed it, but I was not old enough to grasp the full meaning of what I was doing.
Lots of kids at that time (1970) were getting baptized at that age, an age when you cannot get married, drink, drive, vote, or join the armed forces. Why? Because you are deemed too young to be able to assume such responsibilities in life, which you are.
So how you can say that when I was 13 I was old enough to make what the JWs consider your biggest decision in life and own that responsibility? Even Jesus did not get baptized till he was 30!I know why the GB dont use that as a yardstick, even though Jesus is the perfect example, its because they realize that most of the kids who grew up in it would be out long before they reached 30.
I would point out that at 13 I was encouraged by my elders (not cong elders as they weren't invented till 1972) to be baptized. As a child still, I wanted to please them and please Jehovah.
I didnt do it for the wrong motive, I believed it, but I was not old enough to grasp the full meaning of what I was doing.
Well, I certainly agree that you should not have been encouraged to get baptized if you were not old enough to grasp the full meaning. Doubtless that's why the new Young People Ask book says on page 306, "You should be baptized only when you're fully aware of what being one of Jehovah's Witnesses involves and when you're sure that you're ready to take on this responsibility." It also says: "You should be old enough - and mature enough - to understand the meaning of dedication," and cautions "if you want to get baptized but your parents say you should wait ... value their advice and use this time to grow in your friendship with Jehovah."
I don't see many getting baptized aged 13 now. But I'm also curious to know when you left Jehovah's Witnesses. Many people in your situation stay in the truth way long after they reach the age of maturity. In other words, it's not that they made the decision because they were too young to understand. How could it be? They continued as Jehovah's Witnesses for a long time after they were old enough to understand. So, the age they were baptized is not relevant really.
Of course, that may not apply to you. Perhaps you left as soon as you were old enough to understand. But that is not the case with most people in your situation.
Anon wrote: "But I'm also curious to know when you left Jehovah's Witnesses."
Let's see, because 30 minutes of research, with an open mind, revealed that Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians. Or, the fact that the books and magazines of Jehovah's Witnesses have been promoting lies for more than 100 years. Is that good enough?
I am thinking VOR counts his time in service on here! Jeez, you can really chalk up some field service reports by commenting on here. Since I am pretty sure this is the only time you probably get. JW's are notorious for that. Anything they do for service they count it. If they sneeze in public and say "Jehovah", they count it! I was always told to count my time teaching & studying with my children from the publications. I didn't like to do it, but sometimes thats the only time I would get a month. Now I know it's just a time card for men. You all lie on them anyway. It's hilarious! Go for it VOR, get that time in! Wow...
See, the field service reports don't really mean as much, now. Yesterday's Watchtower study introduced us to "invisible" growth in God's organization.
I can't even make this stuff up.
My brother's WT Study conductor told the audience: "I'm not even going to try to explain the old viewpoint. We're just going to learn about the new light."
Clever.
"Let's see, because 30 minutes of research, with an open mind, revealed that Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians. Or, the fact that the books and magazines of Jehovah's Witnesses have been promoting lies for more than 100 years"
If you were one of Jehovah's Witnesses and you say that JWs are not Christian, then you admit that you were not Christian as Jehovah's Witnesses is based on you.
Anon wrote: "But I'm also curious to know when you left Jehovah's Witnesses."
Let's see, because 30 minutes of research, with an open mind, revealed that Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians. Or, the fact that the books and magazines of Jehovah's Witnesses have been promoting lies for more than 100 years. Is that good enough?
If you say so. But the question was "when" not "why?"
Point taken. I answered 'why', instead of 'when'. Sorry about that.
VoR/Ronde/Anon wrote: "If you were one of Jehovah's Witnesses and you say that JWs are not Christian, then you admit that you were not Christian as Jehovah's Witnesses is based on you."
I'm not prepared to dogmatically say that all JWs are not Christians. I don't think I can make that judgement. Certainly an all-knowing God must certainly read hearts. It is my hope that he is more forgiving than the Governing Body and the elder bodies.
Let me be a little clearer. It would be fair to say that I now believe I honestly had no idea what Christianity was all about when I was a JW. I only knew what being a JW was about. I didn't even have an accurate historical perspective on being a JW. I never realized I was a part of an organization obsessed with dates, focused on a material spiritualism, in which I was telling people, "Armageddon is tomorrow and you can live in Paradise!"
Essentialy, I was a member of a works-based, pseudo-Christian group. Performance, works and a belief that something I could do (works) would somehow contribute to my own salvation and that of others.
I will not dogmatically say that all JWs are unapproved in the sight of God. I will say that most of them are misled, if they believe they are, in fact, on the only course that leads to salvation. I do not believe any particular organization or group of believers hold a monopoly on truth or salvation. Nor do I believe that one organization alone can interpret the Bible for others.
"See, the field service reports don't really mean as much, now. Yesterday's Watchtower study introduced us to "invisible" growth in God's organization."
Did they ever mean anything?
But then we can't go without them.
"My brother's WT Study conductor told the audience: "I'm not even going to try to explain the old viewpoint. We're just going to learn about the new light."
I don't even know what the prior understanding was because it does not matter. But he was right, it is just looking at things from a different viewpoint. So it is not that it was wrong, it is that they both are right, but from a viewpoint from a few steps forward.
Ronde wrote: "I don't even know what the prior understanding was because it does not matter. But he was right, it is just looking at things from a different viewpoint. So it is not that it was wrong, it is that they both are right, but from a viewpoint from a few steps forward."
White is black, up is down, the sky is purple, whatever Brooklyn prints, we believe.
yes this stuff is really true. most of the phrases wouldnt come up as blatant as this in the publications often (still occur), but its definately the spirit that reigns that religion. fear, fear, fear.
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