Tuesday, September 23, 2008

Do Jehovah's Witnesses Really Trust Jehovah?

Jehovah's Witnesses claim to trust their god Jehovah implicitly. They fervently preach, teach, and publish unending articles about God's protection, even baptising converts who have sworn an oath to Jehovah and his "representitive organization". They believe unreservedly that God takes a moment by moment active role in watching out and taking palpable action on behalf of Jehovah's Witnesses' welfare, both on an organizational level and individually.
Considering this bold and confident stand as regards God's personal protection and guidance for them alone, what does their personal conduct and organizational methods really indicate?
Far from dependence on Jehovah's personal action, protection and guidance, they display willfully a propensity for self promotion, some actually taking part in "theocratic warfare" which involves lying, misrepresenting, twisting, maneuvering individuals, organizations and governmental agencies to attain their goals.
The recent UN/NGO debacle a prime example. How by any means did their joining ('riding on the back') of this 'worldly, beastly, unclean, whore mongering, unclean human run entity in any way reflect unequivocal dependence and trust in Jehovah? Not one iota. Those who signed the concordat with the United Nations did at that moment in time, and for nine long years afterward, demonstrate a complete lack of trust in their god Jehovah.
For if they truly trusted in Jehovah they would have relied on him to accomplish what they joined the United Nations to accomplish.
Throughout the entire history of Jehovah's Witnesses (120yrs+) they have presumptively called attention to the exclusivity of their honored and sacred relationship with God Almighty, even claiming they are the only ones who utilize his personal name. Somehow by the very incantation of the ancient Hebrew name of god, they by self proclamation claim an absolute exclusivity to offering the only prayers even considered as worthy or acceptable to God. All other's who desire to commune with God are speaking to a deafened ear. God listens to Jehovah's Witnesses only, period, end of discussion.
Yet, when you examine the conduct, when you reflect on the various Jehovah's Witnesses' leaders actions, or should I say antics, what do they reveal? Unabashed self glorification by organizing a religion and declaring that the only way to approach Jehovah is through them.
Could it be that Jehovah's Witnesses for over 120 years have been spreading man's messages, man's desires , man's wishes, instead of God's? You only need look at the track record as respect the real trust the real confidence they have displayed in man's words. Just take a look at your theocratic library and seem the reams of books, not written by or inspired by God, but man.

77 comments:

Anonymous said...

GBL,

Your release of information along thru other websites regarding the 'changes' amongst other things from the Watchtower have been brought up to meetings at my congregation thru a family memmber (as the secretary) during some of the elders meetings. Some have been left pondering...but the president of our cong has indicated this is apostate stuff and he does not belive any of this will happen ("we will see" he was told) but now they are trying to figure 'who' is giving this info to them. Now that they know it was me passing along the info. they have planned to pay me a visit about not believing anything I read online or to be carefull how I am following in the steps of the apostates. Any ideas as to how I might approach them when they come to visit me? They are also going to 'counsel' me as to why I have let myself grow a beard and that they would like to see me more at the field service. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Just wanted to let everyone know about the great posts going on over here. Lots of scans of older publications with great commentary.

http://middleman777.wordpress.com/

Anonymous said...

And for those who speak spanish.
http://johnhenrykurtz.blogspot.com/

has a great info on our Watchtower in spain region along with worldwide. One great contributors has opened up an archive of ALL of the 'elder' letters received and has indexed them by topic/issue (http://picasaweb.google.es/monty.has.mole/IndiceCartasALosAncianos#). All the letters are going to be made public as they are received.

(All partly translated, credit given to: Publicado por JHK, comando Ka 40, Monty Mole)

He has layed the first stone to what will be the Nacional Archive of Letters to the Congregation of Elders. Everyone will now be able to consult the letters! This is a monumental task.
According to the site, it's goal is to allow the brothers to read these letters before even the elders find out. It will be a way to obtain the "spiritual food" from what the Discreet Slave writes to whom we all sustain with our money.

Up untill now, the slate will be even towards obtaining access to the same information. No more priviledge information! No more secrets! No more talk behind our backs! Nothing for some. Everything for everyone!
These letters give instruccions on how the elders should govern over us, on how they are suposed to treat us.

Voice of Reason said...

Didn't your first grade teacher teach you to write with paragraphs?

Voice of Reason said...

You let yourself grow a beard because you have no self esteem and pride in your looks.

steve said...

'Any ideas as to how I might approach them when they come to visit me?'

Visit our site and ask the question there. You will get plenty of good advice.

http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/bexjehovahswitnessforum

Sheeplike said...

Much of what is on this site is made up, and I can prove it. When GBL said that now brothers could not be recommended, or continue to serve if their kids were (or are planning to) in college, it was pure FABRICATION. Trust me.
Of course the organization is imperfect, since it is made up of imperfect people. All of the main Biblical points, which anyone can read: God has a name, is not triune, no hell, no immortal soul, etc are unique to only this group.
I studied the Bible on my own, and came up these beliefs and then looked at all the Christian denominations. This is it.

Anonymous said...

"Any ideas as to how I might approach them when they come to visit me? "

You could say "hello brothers", sorry for being a butthead and reading that trash on the net.

Anonymous said...

Ok,
Thanks for the advise, maybe I am being a buthead, and I would be willing to shave my beard. But could any one here "defending" the Org. please tell me or explain the picture in our book "Revelation.." page. 52?

I see Jesus in the front and center and behind him the 12 elders (144.000) Please look at their hands. Everyone is holding the scepters with one hand while the one on Jesus right is holding it with a normal hand while his other hand is clearly a dry demond hand with sharp claws. There is no doubt about it. Does this mean that evil demons might have infiltrated our heavenly kingdom and hold certain power to do evil?

BroInFlorida said...

Good call, Anon. It is an evil hand of some sort. What could it mean? Probably just some dumb easter egg a brother in the art dept. slid in at the last minute.

Priceless.

hudsoncarl said...

q:Does this mean that evil demons might have infiltrated our heavenly kingdom and hold certain power to do evil?

a:only if you're looking at an actual photograph of heaven. as i think you're probably not, then don't worry about it.

Anonymous said...

.....um...ok. Thanks.

Voice of Reason said...

Sheeplike, you are correct.

There is no directive that if elder's children go to college they could not serve.

That is ridiculous since the children are adults and can make their own decisions and not be reflected on the parents.

"Of course the organization is imperfect, since it is made up of imperfect people."

I don't know what that has to do with anything. If the organization was perfect, apostates would still complain.

Voice of Reason said...

"But could any one here defending the Org. please tell me or explain the picture in our book Revelation.." page. 52?"

I don't have the book here and don't feel I need to explain anything since I am not the artist that drew it.

"I see Jesus in the front and center and behind him the 12 elders (144.000) Please look at their hands. Everyone is holding the scepters with one hand while the one on Jesus right is holding it with a normal hand while his other hand is clearly a dry demond hand with sharp claws. There is no doubt about it. Does this mean that evil demons might have infiltrated our heavenly kingdom and hold certain power to do evil? "

Don't go crazy over a picture.

The picture that matters is the one in the WorldWide Security book that shows the kingdom.

Voice of Reason said...

"They believe unreservedly that God takes a moment by moment active role in watching out and taking palpable action on behalf of Jehovah's Witnesses' welfare, both on an organizational level and individually."

No we don't.

How does the UN/NGO show anything?

"For if they truly trusted in Jehovah they would have relied on him to accomplish what they joined the United Nations to accomplish."

How? Would library books appear in their offices magically?

Anonymous said...

Ronde, please go away. We're trying to discuss something.

Anonymous said...

VOICE OF REASON,

News flash!! Your name shall be chaneged to 'voice that doesnt matter' since that expression may convey the thought that one person holds the direct source of human reasoning than the rest do. Why do you glorify your self with that name?

Are you here also to kick apostate but? Because you are not being very reasonable in your posts and the simple fact that you bookmark this site to keep coming back for more is deemed questionable by 'our' teachings and by any elder, circuit overseer, secretary, our channel of communication and therefore Jehovah himself.

Have you ever seen examples or illustrations of witnessing online? Dont get ahead of your self and wait for the 'light' or news to reach you at an appropriate time instead of finding an interest on these kind of sites you reasonable guy you....wait are you a JW at all? Oh...wait you're a liberal type that worships in your own way instead of the way of our discreet slave...? yeah you sure are reasonable.

Sheeplike said...

"Jesus right is holding it with a normal hand while his other hand is clearly a dry demond hand with sharp claws"

I have the book in front of me, and I do not see that at all. I think Jesus' hands might be rippled because he is holding it so tightly. I agree it is poorly done drawing. One should not read too much into it.

Anonymous said...

OMG......What a bunch of idiots you all are tonight.

Shut up

Roger said...

If anyone is interested in learning some proven facts about the Watch Tower's NGO status (as opposed to speculation and rumor), then why not visit www.thirdwitness.com and see the other side of it?

Just read a defence of the Watch Tower's position. It will not be too late to believe GBL's accusations if you aren't convinced.

I actually found the site very convincing indeed. At least give it a chance ... to be fair.

Watchtower and UN said...

Just click on the above link to hear the other side!

kimmy jo said...

"They fervently preach, teach, and publish unending articles about God's protection, even baptising converts who have sworn an oath to Jehovah and his "representitive organization". They believe unreservedly that God takes a moment by moment active role in watching out and taking palpable action on behalf of Jehovah's Witnesses' welfare, both on an organizational level and individually.
Far from dependence on Jehovah's personal action, protection and guidance, they display willfully a propensity for self promotion, some actually taking part in "theocratic warfare" which involves lying, misrepresenting, twisting, maneuvering individuals, organizations and governmental agencies to attain their goals.
For if they truly trusted in Jehovah they would have relied on him to accomplish what they joined the United Nations to accomplish.
Unabashed self glorification by organizing a religion and declaring that the only way to approach Jehovah is through them.
Could it be that Jehovah's Witnesses for over 120 years have been spreading man's messages, man's desires , man's wishes, instead of God's? You only need look at the track record as respect the real trust the real confidence they have displayed in man's words. Just take a look at your theocratic library and seem the reams of books, not written by or inspired by God, but man.
posted by Governing Body Letters at 11:28 AM on Sep 23, 2008"


You said it very well, Thanks again, LGB for the thoughts.

tohsibor said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tohsibor said...

Sheeplike said...
“God has a name, is not triune, no hell, no immortal soul, etc are unique to only this group.”


That is incorrect. Research the following religious organizations…

-Assemblies of Yahweh
-Assemblies of the Called out Ones of Ya
-House of Yahweh
-The Assembly of YHWHHoshua
-Christadelphians

...And others. Please do so without the influence of the Watchtower as well.

Anonymous said...

Voice of Intellectual Dishonesty wrote: "You let yourself grow a beard because you have no self esteem and pride in your looks."

Jesus and C.T. Russell had no self-esteem and pride in their looks?

Your ignorance is exceeded only by your inability to think for yourself.

If you would use 10% of your mental energy thinking for yourself, instead of defending the indefensible, you would enter a whole new world of Christian Freedom and grace. You would never return to the shackles of the traditions of men.

Anonymous said...

To Voice of Reason:

Your remarks, One to the writer of a relevant and well-researched post and another to an individual asking a personal question were:

"Didn't your first grade teacher teach you to write with paragraphs?"

and

"You let yourself grow a beard because you have no self esteem and pride in your looks."

Voice, if you expect to gain respect for yourself and/or your beliefs comments like that DO NOT help.

Everyone who comes here expects debates between Watchtower defenders such as yourself, and the 'un-Witnesses' to be lively interchanges. It's all about issues.

When the arguments dissolve into personal attacks no one gains anything. The attacker ends up appearing as though he/she is frustrated and without any rationally persuasive input to counter the opposition's position.

When you find yourself at a dead end there are few choices. You can investigate your opponent's material admit it was true and make the necessary changes in your own thinking; or, based on your new material, come back with a counter. Sometimes, in order to protect your own beliefs (especially the unsupportable ones) skulking off may be the best course. You could always wait for a JW/WT issue that's more defensible to come along.

In case no one else has said this - I'm glad you're here. Although I don't usually agree with your position, you rattle my cage and make me think of things I might not have. That's a good thing. I hope we do the same for you. :-)

Voice of Reason said...

"I have the book in front of me, and I do not see that at all. I think Jesus' hands might be rippled because he is holding it so tightly. I agree it is poorly done drawing. One should not read too much into it. "

And some people think backwards messages is satanic.

Coincidence is more likely than intentional.

Voice of Reason said...

But Yahweh is not God's name... in English.

chocolatepuddingeyes said...

Sheeplike said...

"Jesus right is holding it with a normal hand while his other hand is clearly a dry demond hand with sharp claws"

I have the book in front of me, and I do not see that at all. I think Jesus' hands might be rippled because he is holding it so tightly. I agree it is poorly done drawing. One should not read too much into it.

My reply: Are you looking at Jesus' hands or the man to his right? Your copy and paste makes it look like Jesus' hands are being talked about, but it's the man to his right (your left).

Tell me you don't see the claw hand with Nine Inch Nails. I immediately called a brother and asked him to look at his book. He saw the demon claw hand.

I wouldn't call it a subliminal image, because it's right there for all to see. It's not hidden or camouflaged. But I've owned this book for over 10 years AND IT'S THE FIRST TIME I SAW IT!!!

kevin said...

"Do Jehovah's Witnesses really trust Jehovah?"

In my experience as a JW, this "trust" was a pseudo-trust. I remember comments from brothers at the Hall along the lines of "I sure hope Jehovah comes through for us." We were all cloistered in this "ark of safety," the organization, which we hoped would float us through the great tribulation.

Since leaving, I have met many ex-witnesses who have renounced this pseudo-trust in God, and have placed their faith and eternal future solely in the person of Jesus Christ, as the Bible instructs us to do. They no longer have an organizational "crutch," as the Witnesses have; they trust only on Jesus to save them. THIS, I suggest, is REALLY trusting in Jehovah, and is the genuine Christian faith, the real deal.

tohsibor said...

Voice of Reason said...
"But Yahweh is not God's name... in English."

There are no scriptural passage(s) which state the proclaiming of God's name in English as being the mark of a true Christian, how to identify the truth, or even a requirement for anything else for that matter.

However, I understand how some may think that way, as the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses origins are in America and in English during the mid to late 1800's. It's typical unfortunately of many of the religious organizations/sects of that time to be American and/or English-centric.

Nonetheless, there is no biblical support for such a stance or requirement. Furthermore, please do more research on the name Jehovah. Its pronunciation and spelling in English is arguable as well.

See the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society's publication "The Divine Name" brochure:

***
The Divine Name Brochure p.10:

"Even though the modern pronunciation Jehovah might not be exactly the way it was pronounced originally, this in no way detracts from the importance of the name. … While many translators favor the pronunciation Yahweh, the New World Translation and also a number of other translations continue the use of the form Jehovah because of people's familiarity with it for centuries."
***

Note that "Jehovah might not be exactly the way it was pronounced originally" and "...many translators favor the pronunciation Yahweh".

Voice of Reason said...

Kevin said:
"have met many ex-witnesses who have renounced this pseudo-trust in God, and have placed their faith and eternal future solely in the person of Jesus Christ, as the Bible instructs us to do."

Yeah, but do they go out in field service and meet in Kingdom Halls?

If not, then it does not matter.

Kevin said...

Yes, they witness regularly to others, and they meet together in local, independent churches, just as the first-century Christians did. However, as well as abandoning reliance upon man-made religion, they've also abandoned self-righteousness, so they don't point to their own witnessing activity or where or how often they meet as reasons for their justification before God. They point to the work of Christ alone for their justification.

kevin said...

Wow. The import of what you said just hit me.

"Yeah, but do they go out in field service and meet in Kingdom Halls?

If not, then it does not matter."

You are claiming that door-to-door witnessing and meeting in kingdom halls is more important than faith in Jesus!

This is precisely the problem with Jehovah's Witnesses. They are so self-centered, self-absorbed and self-righteous, that the gospel of salvation by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ, is entirely lost to them. Blind guides!

Sheeplike said...

kevin said...

"This is precisely the problem with Jehovah's Witnesses. ... that the gospel of salvation by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ, is entirely lost to them. Blind guides!"

If the Witnesses are blind guides, what about the 99% of 'Christian" denominations who will go to war and kill- even members of their own church!

Are not their priests and ministers blind guides?

Sheeplike said...

I would like a comment on why no other group stays out of politics and will never fight or kill in wars.

Who are more peaceful and loving than Jehovah's Witnesses.

Is not proper worship proved by its fruitage?

Anonymous said...

Your criteria are your unique interpretation of scripture. There is no Biblical command against self-defense. Where does the Bible say that any involvement in politics is wrong? Daniel was a member of the government. Another unique interpretation.

All show and no go.

Anonymous said...

"loving"

If you've ever been on the receiving end of the hate that JWs direct toward the clergy of other religions or the hate directed at people that choose to leave JWs and join another religion, you'll drop all notion of a "loving" group of people.

Conditional love. They give you love as long as you agree to ANYTHING printed in the Watchtower magazine, no matter if there is Biblical support.

Voice of Reason said...

Kevin said:
"Yes, they witness regularly to others, and they meet together in local, independent churches, just as the first-century Christians did. However, as well as abandoning reliance upon man-made religion,"

That is words only and does not provide worldwide joy.

It seems that so many have such a negative attitude about Jehovah's Witnesses that is just so unfounded.

Sheeplike said...

anonymous said...
"There is no Biblical command against self-defense. Where does the Bible say that any involvement in politics is wrong?"

I was talking about war, not self-defense.

To your second point, did you not read that Jesus refused to become king? In the scriptures, did Jesus ever authorize his disciples protest against (or fight) the corrupt Roman Empire? They were to spread the word. History shows that at early christians did not go to war and stayed out of politics. (I teach World History)

Voice of Reason said...

Kevin said:
"You are claiming that door-to-door witnessing and meeting in kingdom halls is more important than faith in Jesus!"

No, I am claiming that the ministry and meetings is proof of faith in Jesus.

Voice of Reason said...

"Your criteria are your unique interpretation of scripture. There is no Biblical command against self-defense. Where does the Bible say that any involvement in politics is wrong? Daniel was a member of the government. Another unique interpretation."

No one is saying that self defense or government work is wrong.

The issue is that politics divide and the churches are divided over it and war.

Voice of Reason said...

"If you've ever been on the receiving end of the hate that JWs direct toward the clergy of other religions or the hate directed at people that choose to leave JWs and join another religion, you'll drop all notion of a "loving" group of people."

Well, simply people are not supposed to be clergy or to be exjw.



"Conditional love. They give you love as long as you agree to ANYTHING printed in the Watchtower magazine, no matter if there is Biblical support."

That is bad how?

But there is biblical support for what is printed.

J said...

VofR:

"Well, simply people are not supposed to be clergy or to be exjw."

I suppose people are not supposed to be Black, Native American, or Chinese either. While we are hating people, why not hate women and short people..

VoR if you really think what you say is true, then your mind is dangerously warped.

VoR you teach hate. Jesus taught love. You have missed the point of the entire Greek Scriptures.

kevin said...

"I would like a comment on why no other group stays out of politics and will never fight or kill in wars."

Actually, I have some Mennonite friends whom I respect highly, who stay out of politics and the military, so your claim that the JW's are the only people that hold to the "neutrality" position is false. I also respect the position of Christians who will give their lives to protect their fellow citizens from harm. Warmongers, I do not respect, nor do I know any personally.

Jesus healed a centurion's daughter, and commended him for his faith. He didn't command the soldier who asked him "what should I do?" to get out of the military. Cornelius was a high-ranking military man who was blessed with saving faith in Jesus; why didn't Peter tell him to get out of the military? We need to be careful not to go beyond Scripture on this; forbidding military service would be doing just that.

Yes, when Jesus was arrested, He told Peter to put his sword away, but later, he instructed the disciples to sell their robes and buy swords (Luke 22:36). The King having been rejected, the road ahead was going to be rough for them. They needed to be able to protect themselves.

This is not to say that Christians are going to usher in the Kingdom of God by the sword. They're not. Jesus alone has that responsibility, and He'll usher in the Kingdom when He returns. However, until then, we have the right to protect ourselves individually and nationally.

The "churches go to war and kill each other" is a knee-jerk smokescreen that the JW's use to feed their misplaced self-righteousness. Not to mention a convenient tool to change the subject when they have trouble responding directly to the topic at hand, namely, their trust in Jehovah.

berty said...

Vor aka Ronde,
" I am claiming that the ministry and meetings is proof of faith in Jesus. "

No, it is just to say that they are active in order not to be bothered by elders and if the end will come to be saved also. They are so naive that they believe they can fool god himself by this. Or, maybe, that they have him in their pockets.

For me that is an extra proof that god doesn´t exist.

kimmy jo said...

berty,
you got that right...vor IS ronde.

Shawn said...

"Anonymous said...

GBL,

Your release of information along thru other websites regarding the 'changes' amongst other things from the Watchtower have been brought up to meetings at my congregation thru a family memmber (as the secretary) during some of the elders meetings. Some have been left pondering...but the president of our cong has indicated this is apostate stuff and he does not belive any of this will happen ("we will see" he was told) but now they are trying to figure 'who' is giving this info to them. Now that they know it was me passing along the info. they have planned to pay me a visit about not believing anything I read online or to be carefull how I am following in the steps of the apostates. Any ideas as to how I might approach them when they come to visit me? They are also going to 'counsel' me as to why I have let myself grow a beard and that they would like to see me more at the field service. Thanks."

Here's what the elders will use to decide how to deal with you...

From Pay Attention... to the Flock
"Apostasy .
Apostasy is a standing away from, a falling away, defec-
tion, rebellion, abandonment ; it involves teaching false
doctrines, supporting or promoting false religion and its
holidays or interfaith activities. (Deut . 13 :13, 15 ; Josh.
22 :22, ftn . ; Acts 21 :21, ftn. ; 2 Cor. 6 :14, 15, 17, 18 ;
2 John 7, 9, 10 ; Rev . 18 :4)
Those with sincere doubts should be helped, dealt with
mercifully . (Jude 22, 23 ; w82 9/1 pp . 20-1 ; w80 8/1
pp . 21-2)
Apostasy includes action taken against true worship of
Jehovah or his established order among his dedicated
people . (Jer . 17 :13 ; 23 :15 ; 28 :15, 16 ; 2 Thess . 2 :9, 10)
Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and
speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught
by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates .
If it is learned that a person has taken up association with
another religious organization, the matter should be inves-
tigated, and if verified, a committee should be formed .
If it is clearly established that the person has joined
another religion and intends to remain with it, the
elders would make a brief announcement to the congre-
gation that such one has disassociated himself. (w86
10/15 p . 31)
Working secularly for a false religious organization could
put one in a position similar to that of one preaching false
doctrine . (2 Cor. 6 :14-16)
Celebrating a false religious holiday would be similar to
performing any other act of false worship . (Jer . 7 :16-19)
The Bible condemns the following :
Causing divisions and promoting sects .
This would be deliberate action disrupting the unity
of the congregation or undermining the confidence
of the brothers in Jehovah's arrangement .
It may involve or lead to apostasy . (Rom. 16 :
17, 18 ; Titus 3 :10, 11)"

Look if you really want to stay in good standing for whatever reason, play dumb. Act confused by what you're reading here and humbly accept their counsel that this site is apostate material. Tell them you don't know how you got sucked into this demonic deception and thank them for helping you to see the truth about this. It will make them feel much better about you if you shave your beard. If you want to avoid being 'marked', just do it.

tohsibor said...

Voice of Reason said...
"No, I am claiming that the ministry and meetings is proof of faith in Jesus."

That is what the Watchtower may have led you to believe regarding the definition of faith. However, the scriptures teach something different. Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen (READ Hebrews 11:1).

The ministry (Field Service aka “preaching” as defined by the organization behind Jehovah's Witnesses) and meetings (Again, defined both in substance and frequency by the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses) does not equate to faith in Jesus.
It does equate to the interpretation of believing if you do those things you have faith in Jesus as a result of the teachings and requirements set out by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Voice of Reason said...

Arguing against Jehovah's Witnesses on the subject on neutrality is pointless. That is because we do it properly because we view things in the worldwide brotherhood.

Mennonites don't do that. So their example means nothing. They just did not want to fight. That is fine for them, but nothing to do with Christianity in itself.

Voice of Reason said...

Shawn, you can quote publications, but do you actually understand anything that you copy and paste?

Anonymous said...

Shawn...

Thank you for your advise. I was figuring that's what I would have to do. Other than raise a couple of valid concerns regarding the lack of love in our congregation. No one seems to say anything cause they are too scared....it would be like going against God himself by letting the elders know our congregation is really messed up. But this is an issue that needs to be brought up.

tohsibor said...

Voice of Reason said...
"Arguing against Jehovah's Witnesses on the subject on neutrality is pointless. That is because we do it properly because we view things in the worldwide brotherhood."

The organization behind Jehovah’s Witnesses teachings concerning war are upheld the same way by the following religious organizations/sects:

-Assemblies of Yahweh
-Assemblies of the Called out Ones of Ya
-House of Yahweh
-The Assembly of YHWHHoshua
-Christadelphians

…And others.

In fact, all the above groups fit the criteria set out by the Faithful and Discrete Slave Class in their publication published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, ‘What Does God Require Of Us” in identifying “true” religion.

The issue of neutrality nor many of the other issues brought up by the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses does not prove that Jehovah’s Witnesses or any of the above groups make up a so-called “one true” religion.

Voice of Reason said...

" Other than raise a couple of valid concerns regarding the lack of love in our congregation. No one seems to say anything cause they are too scared....it would be like going against God himself by letting the elders know our congregation is really messed up. But this is an issue that needs to be brought up. "

Why not be an example of what love is rather than bring things up to the elders or complain?

Anonymous said...

I am fascinated how this blog has become more of a forum for discussion than just a blog. It certainly does stir a lot of controversy. I found that hand picture interesting but am wondering way the incidents don’t seem to be a frequent as in the past?

Anonymous said...

The hand picture is nothing.

And those other pictures are coincidences and they mean no more than backward masking of songs.

Anonymous said...

Yes, you are right. It's about love. God is love.

Love is not equal to 100+ years of printing literature full of lies and distortions. Just because you sincerely believe it, doesn't make it true.

Love is not indecent. Lies, deceptions and dishonesty are NOT LOVE.

Anonymous said...

Why are there JW's on here? Active ones? Last time I checked, 6 yrs ago & counting, you were counseled NOT to talk to apostates or cruise the net for apostate teachings, so as not to be misled? I don't get why anybody on here is defending the JW's at all. Wow! You wouldn't speak to them if you saw them on the street or speak to them at the KH, 'cuz they would be DF's. So, why is OK to have a discussion on here? You obvioulsy are lacking faith that being a 24-7 JW requires. It's a fulltime job & if you are on here discussing, then you are probably not a good example of a JW. No, I take that back. You are exactly what a JW is, a hypocrite, all of them. Don't mind me , I'm just passin' thru.

Voice of Reason said...

"Love is not equal to 100+ years of printing literature full of lies and distortions."

The only lies and distortion is you.

Voice of Reason said...

"Why are there JW's on here? Active ones?"

Because Jesus said that you sinners are the ones that need the physicians, not the healthy ones.

"you were counseled NOT to talk to apostates or cruise the net for apostate teachings,"

So are you admitting that you are apostate? Then you ought to repent and not point fingers at us faithful active ones.



"I don't get why anybody on here is defending the JW's at all."

Yes, since there are no real attacks to defend, just jokes and gibbirish.


"You wouldn't speak to them if you saw them on the street or speak to them at the KH, 'cuz they would be DF's"

Yes, I would. I never heard any anouncements.

"So, why is OK to have a discussion on here? "

I am not discussing anything. Just pointing out where you are wrong.

"You obvioulsy are lacking faith that being a 24-7 JW requires."

No, this place gives me faith. It tells me that only Jehovah's Organization is the one that serves him, these evil ones on here do not know him.


" It's a fulltime job & if you are on here discussing, then you are probably not a good example of a JW. No, I take that back. You are exactly what a JW is, a hypocrite, all of them."


How would you know what a JW is supposed to be unless I tell you?

Anonymous said...

We don't need a spiritually weak JW to teach us anything. We were all JWs, previously. We were all well-liked, faithful JWs. Elders, servants, Bethelites, etc.

When you get some undeniable proof that WT was selected in 1918/1919, get back with us.

Anonymous said...

Note to all active JWs: Please keep coming back here and learning what you won't read in the Watchtower magazine.

Voice of Reason said...

"We don't need a spiritually weak JW to teach us anything. We were all JWs, previously. We were all well-liked, faithful JWs. Elders, servants, Bethelites, etc.
When you get some undeniable proof that WT was selected in 1918/1919, get back with us. "

No you weren't faithful Jehovah's Witnesses or elders or Bethelites, because if you were you would not be asking incorrect questions like abobe. JWs don't believe the WT was selected in 1918/1919. JWs believe that the people who set up the WTS were selected, because they set up the WTS.

Voice of Reason said...

"Note to all active JWs: Please keep coming back here and learning what you won't read in the Watchtower magazine. "

We are active JWs because we come here. What we won't read in the Watchtower? That opposers to JWs are evil? We read that in the Watchtower.

Anonymous said...

You're already back! Right on. Keep coming, every day. Keep feeding at the 'Table of Demons', day and night. You may actually learn some real truth.

Anonymous said...

Voice of Unreason wrote: "JWs don't believe the WT was selected in 1918/1919. JWs believe that the people who set up the WTS were selected, because they set up the WTS."

Huh?

Either your religion is special, and selected by God in 1918/1919 or it wasn't. Pretty simple, really.

Voice of Reason said...

"Either your religion is special, and selected by God in 1918/1919 or it wasn't. Pretty simple, really. "

It is not "our religion".

It is Jehovah's religion and we are just doing things his way the best we can.

Anonymous said...

Uh-huh. Just like every other Christian religion. Doing the best they can.

Too bad you're more interested in your superiority complex than what the Bible teaches.

Troll.

Anonymous said...

Someone commented on my comment that the “hand picture” is nothing. I don’t know how or why it was placed there, but how can anyone say that it is nothing? Clearly it is something since it is undeniably there. It is not just a mistake of printing. It clearly was placed there at some point in the production. I doubt that it was done by the artist and I suspect that it was done in preprint production.

I doubt that the governing body had anything to do with it but still it is something so please don’t just brush it aside.

Anonymous said...

Voice of reason said:
How would you know what a JW is supposed to be unless I tell you?

Unless YOU tell me????? OK, Jehovah God Almighty, go ahead & tell me. Tell me EVERYTHING!!!
You weak minded fool. You probably haven't been to the KH in months! Do you report the time you spend on here on your Field Service Report? No doubt, 'cuz it's probably all you have! What a loser, own it or get off here. You are either a JW or you aren't. An active faithful JW would NOT be on here, trust me. I was, am now inactive as I said prev for 6+ years now. Was a baptised servant of Jehovah or more accurately the WTBTS for 30+ yrs. And now I am not serving those men. I own it, I don't deny it. I am glad about it. At least I'm not a hypocrite.

Anonymous said...

"It is not just a mistake of printing. It clearly was placed there at some point in the production. I doubt that it was done by the artist and I suspect that it was done in preprint production."

So what of it? It means nothing.

There are people who claim that Stairway to Heaven has Satan backwards. Sure the word is understandable but Robert Plant did not put it there, that is just the way those forward phrases sound backwards. It is just a coincidence and stupid ministers put forth that lie.

Anonymous said...

Ronde says: "Watchtower can do no wrong. They are the Slave. The Slave The Slave. People, the slave!"

Will you Love Bomb me if I come to your Hall? I swear I won't tell anyone that I'm an apostate.

Voice of Reason said...

"Voice of reason said:
'How would you know what a JW is supposed to be unless I tell you?'
Unless YOU tell me????? OK, Jehovah God Almighty, go ahead & tell me. Tell me EVERYTHING!!!"

You don't get it.

Who Jehovah's Witnesses are and what they do and believe is up to the people. However, what the people do and believe is based on the principles in the Bible.


"An active faithful JW would NOT be on here, trust me."

Exactly what I said. You do not know what JWs believe or even faithful active ones are to be doing. So you have no business stating such things. Yes we would be on here.


" I was, am now inactive as I said prev for 6+ years now. Was a baptised servant of Jehovah or more accurately the WTBTS for 30+ yrs."

As I stated, if you served the WTBTS or viewed your service as such , you do not know or understand Jehovah's Witnesses. Thus you proved my point because you did not ask me.

Anonymous said...

There he goes again. VoR is reading hearts and minds: "As I stated, if you served the WTBTS or viewed your service as such , you do not know or understand Jehovah's Witnesses."

Are you really an apostle or something? Can you heal the sick?

You're killing me. I can barely keep up. I need my tall boots.

kimmy jo said...

Why does anyone respond to vor/ronde's arguments and discontent?
Such a yucky attitude he has.
I am actually feeling a bit sorry for him, I do not think he has anyone, he is very lonely.
The congregation he belongs to is not as 'loving' as he my defend it to be. He is just a quirky tag along at the hall that everyone sorta keeps distance from...but then that is typical groupie JW love at the hall.
I feel bad for you vor/ronde, cause you seem so effected by mere conversation and you feel the need to intercept everything said and comment line by line...

Anonymous said...

I can see why Ronde response. What I cannot understand is why he doesn't tell the truth about the JWs. He does them a disservice.

If JWs represent God, there is no need to color or slant their views. Just tell the truth.

Anonymous said...

VOR (alias Ronde) made this startleling revelaton in another post (here is Ronde's direct quote):

"I don't trust them [the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses] for any explanation. I have said that over and over. Come on."