Monday, September 1, 2008

Keeping The Congregation Clean

Watchtower 9/1/1987 pages 14-15 "A Time to Speak"-When?
Thinking Ahead Employers have a right to expect that their Christian employees will ‘exhibit good fidelity to the full,’ including observing rules on confidentiality. (Titus 2:9, 10) If an oath is taken, it should not be taken lightly. An oath makes a promise more solemn and binding. (Psalm 24:4) And where the law reinforces a requirement on confidentiality, the matter becomes still more serious. Hence, before a Christian takes an oath or puts himself under a confidentiality restriction, whether in connection with employment or otherwise, it would be wise to determine to the extent possible what problems this may produce because of any conflict with Bible requirements. How will one handle matters if a brother or a sister becomes a client? Usually such jobs as working with doctors, hospitals, courts, and lawyers are the type of employment in which a problem could develop. We cannot ignore Caesar’s law or the seriousness of an oath, but Jehovah’s law is supreme. Anticipating the problem, some brothers who are lawyers, doctors, accountants, and so forth, have prepared guidelines in writing and have asked brothers who may consult them to read these over before revealing anything confidential. Thus an understanding is required in advance that if serious wrongdoing comes to light, the wrongdoer would be encouraged to go to the elders in his congregation about the matter. It would be understood that if he did not do so, the counselor would feel an obligation to go to the elders himself. There may be occasions when a faithful servant of God is motivated by his personal convictions, based on his knowledge of God’s Word, to strain or even breach the requirements of confidentiality because of the superior demands of divine law. Courage and discretion would be needed. The objective would not be to spy on another’s freedom but to help erring ones and to keep the Christian congregation clean. Minor transgressions due to sin should be overlooked. Here, “love covers a multitude of sins,” and we should forgive “up to seventy-seven times.” (Matthew 18:21, 22) This is the “time to keep quiet.” But when there is an attempt to conceal major sins, this may be the “time to speak.”

27 comments:

Anonymous said...

A while ago you said something about the possibility of the name Jehovah's Witnesses changing. What were you referring to? Is this true?

Reuben said...

I haven't found any confidential information on this site at all. It's all copied out of old Watchtowers and other websites. Apart from the pompous lectures, that is.

Carl said...

GBL, it is unreasonable to conclude that their is no organized group that Jehovah approves of. Think about it, he has always had one.

The israelites were a group, led by Moses, whom God approved. When they tried to go their own way, Jehovah was very displeased as was the case with Korah and at one time Aaron. Moses was God's representative.

In the time of the prophets, Jehovah used them to spread the word to others. They weren't going to survive on their own.

In the frst century of course there was a centralized group. First of all, the apostles. That was a group that spread the good news. Paul continued to do it as well by visiting CONGREGATIONS and writing to CONGREGATIONS. Obviously they were in a group together worshipping and not individually.

Jehovah does not change. He still has representatives of his on earth which he uses to spread the good news to others. They never have been perfect and they still are not.

So which group today is it? I will raise the same challenge again. Catholics? Muslims? Buddhists? The facts speak for themselves.

Governing Body Letters said...

Carl,it is unreasonable to conclude that their is a specific organized group that Jehovah approves of.
Jesus said that his followers would come out of every nation, tribe and tongue. He did not say that they would come out of specific group of people.
He further said that they would grow like the weeds. Weeds grow all over the place and are not confined to one specific area.
In the first century there was a centralized group. So what? In the first century christianity was just starting. There were not enough of them yet to be found all over.
A CONGREGATION does not have to be a big group of people. One or two people can congregation together.
Jesus said when two or three are gathered in my name, there I am also.
Jehovah does not change. This is a true statement. Unfortunately the organization that you put your trust in changes all the time. They change dates, they change doctrines and then they have the audacity to say that that they speak on behalf of Jehovah. Is Jehovah a liar. Why does Jehovah keep changing his mind. When Moses got the law it remained the same. Jehovah never said, "Oh, Boy, Moses. Bring that law back. I changed my mind about something!"

So which group today is it? I will raise the same challenge again. Catholics? Muslims? Buddhists? The facts speak for themselves.

Yes, indeed, the facts speak for themselves!

Governing Body Letters said...

Jesus and Satan are walking along a lonley road and Jesus bends down and picks up something shiny. Satan asks "What do you have there?" Jesus says "Truth". Satan says "Give it to me, I'll organize it for you".

Anonymous said...

I think the 'facts' being presented on this blog (and ignored by JW apologists), do speak for themselves.

They are telling us that jehovah.s Witnesses are NOT the true faith.

Anonymous said...

When I put the word facts in parentheses, it was meant as a quote word from Carl, not that the facts presented were questionable, which it looks like in my post..lol

Tom Rook said...

Jonah was told by Jehovah God to go to Nineveh to preach it's destruction.

Then, God changed his mind !!

AFTER Jonah preached it's destruction.

..at Jehovah God's direction.

So ..... I guess Jonah was a false prophet.. and technically he was a false prophet.... but in reality he was reluctant, but acted properly after being "transported against his will" to Nineveh.

By this specific example, the general statement of LGB is proved false.

There is no getting around Jonah's account, or the fact that Jehovah DOES change his mind.

Tom.Rook@Technik-SA.US

Governing Body Letters said...

Poor Tom....
Jehovah did not change his mind. He told the Ninevites that if they did not repent he would destroy them.
Well, the Ninevites repented, so he did not destroy them.
Tom, Jehovah did not change his mind. HE KEPT HIS PROMISE!

Anonymous said...

Carl said...
GBL, it is unreasonable to conclude that their is no organized group that Jehovah approves of. Think about it, he has always had one.

Ok Carl who were Jehovah's Organization between the 4th and 19th century? The Catholic and Protestant churches? Who were Jehovah's Organized people that Russell contacted and studied with in the early 1870's? Jonas Wendell, George Storrs, George Stetson, Nelson Barbour etc Second Aventists and ex-Millerites all members of apostate christendom.

Bud said...

Jonah was sent with a warning. His ministry was a success since they took it to heart. We would not consider him a false prophet. His message came from Jehovah. I think it is healthy not to imply bad intentions to the supreme being of the universe. Be careful!

Tom Rook said...

Yeah…poor ol’ Tom…..

Being right covers a multitude of poverties …, of which I have plenty.

Jonah 1:1-2 - “ And the word of Jehovah began to occur to Jonah the son of Amittai, saying: “Get up, go to Nineveh the great city, and proclaim against her that their badness has come up before me.””

Jehovah does not speak of repentance at all ….. any more that an Air Raid siren is a call to repentance. It is a warning of impending destruction.

The next time Jehovah speaks is in Chapter 3.

Jonah 3:1-4 – “Then the word of Jehovah occurred to Jonah the second time, saying: “Get up, go to Nineveh the great city, and proclaim to her the proclamation that I am speaking to you.”
“At that Jonah got up and went to Nineveh in accord with the word of Jehovah. Now Nineveh herself proved to be a city great to God, with a walking distance of three days. Finally Jonah started to enter into to city the walking distance of one day, and he kept proclaiming and saying: “Only forty days more, and Nineveh will be overthrown.”

Still …. there is no option mentioned for repentence. Jonah was preaching destruction……not options.

Apparently they KNEW Jonah was from the true God, somehow, and they were terrified.

In Chapter 3:9 the King of Nineveh is hopeful that he might be able to turn away the wrath of God … EVEN THOUGH HE HAD NOT BEEN OFFERED THAT OPTION.

Jonah 3:9 (King of Nineveh speaks) “… Who is there knowing whether the [true] God may turn back and actually feel regret and turn back from his burning anger, so that we may not perish?”

Never ONCE was repentance offered as an option …. But apparently the Ninevehites knew Jehovah’s power and mercy and in grasping for straws…got the right one.

Now ….. Jonah is ROYALLY TICKED OFF because he went through the storm and the fish thing and all the rest, only to have it look like he was a false prophet, when Jehovah did not execute judgment that he was ordered to proclaim. (Sound familiar?).

Jehovah never offered repentance, but when he saw the Ninevites change of mind, he changed HIS mind.

Jonah was clueless about this, and never preached repentance, even though in general principle, he knew that Jehovah was merciful…..sometimes… and made excuses before God that knowing this is why he disobeyed his orders to preach DESTRUCTION.

The whole of Chapter 4 (And this book is only four chapters), is God trying to explain to Jonah why, IN SPITE OF GOD’S ORDERS TO JONAH, why he did something different.

Jonah felt like a world class fool for this not happening as he proclaimed it, especially after all he had been through to do this, and was embarrassed and shamed to the point that in Jonah 4:3 asked God to kill him. “And now, O Jehovah, take away please, my soul from me, for my dying is better than my being alive.”

( Sorta like one of Jehovah’s Witnesses looking around in 1976 and seeing the world system of things has not ended. )

( And any Witnesses who says the Society did not teach that I don’t want to hear it… I was there, …. and heard talks on that very subject at the Mosque auditorium, in Richmond Virginia, circa 1974, at which they asked anybody from the Press to leave and asked brothers to turn off their tape recorders , and I have a cassette tape of Brother Knoor at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville Virginia talking, circa 1976, about how disappointed he was that the system did not end in 1975. )

But I digress … The whole of Jonah Chapter 4 is God explaining by parable and illustration to Jonah why, although in the eyes of the GBL, Jonah certainly would be considered a false prophet … WHY … GOD … CHANGED … HIS MIND.

When you lead a double life as a spy, and lie to the congregation of God about who you really are in order to get your thirty pieces of silver selling souvenirs of your dishonesty, it is no surprise that even though the facts about many aspects of Jehovah’s Organization are in very serious need of reform, your understanding of what it really means is totally hosed.

Tom.Rook@Technik-SA.US

Anonymous said...

Tom Rook Quote:

"Jonah was told by Jehovah God to go to Nineveh to preach it's destruction.
Then, God changed his mind!! AFTER Jonah preached it's destruction...at Jehovah God's direction."

"There is no getting around Jonah's account, or the fact that Jehovah DOES change his mind."

“So... Jonah was a false prophet."

Tom’s [The Watchtower’s?] idea is that the WTB&TS is a prophet like Jonah, and therefore, if you call the Watchtower a false prophet for huge number of its failed prophecies you’d be calling Jonah one too. However…

If you know the scriptures, you know that the Almighty, who
[A] ‘Changeth not’’
[B] ‘Knows the end from the beginning’;
[C] Knew the number of Ninevens who couldn’t tell their right from left hands, and who
[D] “Knows the heart”,
hand-pick Jonah from among all of Israel’s prophets, so Jonah’s experiences could be for later generations known as “the sign of Jonah” (spending three days in a ‘grave’ and being resurrected) and that Jehovah ‘relents from sending calamity’
Jonah hated the evil and violent Ninevites with good reason. Obviously he wanted to see them destroyed. So why wasn’t he gleeful about taking the message of their impending destruction to them? Because he knew Jehovah to be a
“…gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love…a God who relents from sending calamity…” (Jonah 4:2)
and therefore prophecy or no prophecy Jehovah was NOT likely to destroy Nineveh at all if their hearts were touched.
Jonah, had an intimate personal relationship with Jehovah. (No JW would dare to talk about the ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave Class’ way Jonah talked to Jehovah without expecting to be turned over to the ‘Judicial’ Committee?)
He was happy with God’s goodness mercy—as long as it was directed to him and those of his religion—but he wasn’t at all pleased to see Jehovah express those same qualities toward the ‘unworthy’—especially after he preached their doom. For all that Jonah knew about God’s heart he wasn’t happy to see the inhabitants of Nineveh be allowed to live. Like many ‘righteous’ people, the Prophet Jonah was totally bummed out because God didn’t destroy the wicked like they preached!

Anonymous said...

If you chose to use the Prophet Jonah as an example of JWs/Watchtower then take it all the way. God is God. Wicked Nineveh is the World. The foretold destruction of that city is [get the smelling salts out]—ARMAGEDDON!

james said...

The bible is full of stories that never actually happened. The Jonah story is the same as the flood, the parting of the Red Sea, Balaam talking to his ass etc, they're fairytales. Arguing about Jonah and what happened to him and what it means is as meaningful as discussing the terrible fate ot Humpty Dumpty.

Governing Body Letters said...

"When you lead a double life as a spy, and lie to the congregation of God about who you really are in order to get your thirty pieces of silver selling souvenirs of your dishonesty, it is no surprise that even though the facts about many aspects of Jehovah’s Organization are in very serious need of reform, your understanding of what it really means is totally hosed."
----------------------------------
You are really assuming a lot, aren't you? But first of all, let me reiterate that the watchtower society is not the congregation of God. They made that up and got you to help promote that idea.

I know that the witnesses love the book of Jonah because to them it is an account of Jehovah changing his mind. So every time a doctrine or a mistake is made, well here comes good old reliable Jonah. Those feisty witnesses love to twist and turn the scriptures to fit their doctrine of the day.
It is really not your fault that you believe this too.

Jonah:
1 And the word of Jehovah began to occur to Jo´nah the son of A·mit´tai, saying: 2 “Get up, go to Nin´e·veh the great city, and proclaim against her that their badness has come up before me.”

These scriptures only say that Jonah is going to Ninevah to tell them that Jehovah is upset with them because they have been bad.

It was a warning message.
Jehovah (the real Jehovah, not the Watchtower Jehovah) is good and kind and does not want anyone to die, so he sends Jonah to warn them.

If Jonah's message to the Ninevites was not a warning message what was the point? Jehovah could have just killed them at any time He wanted to.

Did Jehovah just send Jonah to the Ninevites to tell them that he was going to destroy them? Did Jehovah send Jonah heartlessly around the city telling the inhabitants that they were going to be killed without giving them a chance?

He was giving the Ninevites a chance to repent from their bad ways.

The Ninevites repented big time, ergo, no destruction. Even the King of Ninevah stopped doing the bad things.

Jehovah even gave them a timeline. 40 days. If they did not repent in 40 days it was curtains for them. The Ninevites heeded Jonah's warning.
Jehovah kept his promise. Everybody's happy... well, but Jonah, but then he had his own problems.

Jehovah does not change. He is constant. He keeps his promises.

That's not so hard to understand, Tom, is it?

Ronde said...

I do not agree with this Watchtower article and reporting someone from confidential information. If someone had an abortion, that is between the person and Jehovah and no one else's business.

It is not like Achan where they lost Jehovah's spirit and had to find out the guilty one and eliminate him and his family to get Jehovah's blessing back. It is not like the congregation loses his spirit while someone who sinned is in their midst, unless that one is disfellowshipped.

Each person is accountable to Jehovah. This is Jehovah's organization regardless of what the people within do.

In fact, that brings to mind how wrong GBLetters is. Thank you for bringing this to light. The fact that there are sinners and wrongdoers in the congregations shows that this is Jehovah's organization. It shows that Jehovah is above what they do and they can not bring him down.

But if what the bad people do proves that this is not Jehovah's organization, then the people are greater than the most high God.


But I would state that it is good that they look out for others to try to help them.

Governing Body Letters said...

"Each person is accountable to Jehovah. This is Jehovah's organization regardless of what the people within do.

In fact, that brings to mind how wrong GBLetters is. Thank you for bringing this to light. The fact that there are sinners and wrongdoers in the congregations shows that this is Jehovah's organization. It shows that Jehovah is above what they do and they can not bring him down."
----------------------------------
Wow, you really had to reach to bring about that analogy.
So I am proof that the Watchtower is Jehovah's true organization?

Well, if you say so.

JoePublish said...

Ronde, how about another quote from the Rocky series or your latest quote, from the army?

Let me ask you straight out, have you ever been or are you currently disfellowshipped? (Thanks for your honest reply.)

Ronde said...

GBLetters said:
"Wow, you really had to reach to bring about that analogy.
So I am proof that the Watchtower is Jehovah's true organization?"

I didn't say that. I didn't say anything about the Watchtower. Why? The Watchtower does not do anything anymore.

You are proof that the Judas class is alive and well today.

Ronde said...

Joepub:
"Ronde, how about another quote from the Rocky series or your latest quote, from the army?"

What did I say about the army? I don't recall.

Ivan Dragoo "I'll break you".
Rocky "Go for it!!"

"Let me ask you straight out, have you ever been or are you currently disfellowshipped? (Thanks for your honest reply.)"

No.

kimmy jo said...

ronde,

"I do not agree with this Watchtower article and reporting someone from confidential information. If someone had an abortion, that is between the person and Jehovah and no one else's business."
"Each person is accountable to Jehovah."

i have to agree with this statement you made. when JW's read such things i believe it makes everyone suspect and breeds alot of tattle-tale's and gossipers. IT ALSO SHOWS HOW MUCH CONTROL THE WATCHTOWER HAS OR WOULD LIKE TO HAVE OVER THE CONGREGATIONS. we are all accountable to someone.


"This is Jehovah's organization regardless of what the people within do."

however, i must strongly disagree with this statement because there is no proof. it has success and failure like any other organization, club or corporation. nothing special. in fact, the organization itself is full if indecision, deceit and contradictions which it feeds the people of the congregations calling it truth from God. a follower or onlooker should expect and see much higher standards. thus to any reasonable person searching for truth, he would see, by evidence presented this is not Jehovah's organization.

Governing Body Letters said...

"You are proof that the Judas class is alive and well today."

Jehovah's Witnesses just can not leave the Bible alone!
The Bible mentions a (one) Faithful and Discreet Slave and so to fit their theology the turn in into a Faithfull and Discreet Slave CLASS. Judas was one guy, for goodness sakes. Now he is a CLASS.
Jehovah's Witnesses. Please, if you are going to read the Bible, please let it speak for itself! Try not to be influenced by the Watchtower's agenda.

Ronde said...

Kimmy Jo:

If everyone in the earthly part of the organization were perfect in everything (other than me), It would be a human organization in their own works, rather than humans serving Jehovah, which makes it Jehovah's organization.

kimmy jo said...

ronde, what you said doesn't tell me anything or make much sense....

"If everyone in the earthly part of the organization were perfect in everything (other than me), It would be a human organization in their own works, rather than humans serving Jehovah, which makes it Jehovah's organization."

humans are not expected to be perfect and neither can any organization, club or corp., it is not possible. it can't be proven that people are serving Jehovah by being part of this organization, they are serving the watchtower and all it represents. the one telling you that you serve Jehovah is the watchtower and that is NOT good enough.

JoePublish said...

I have to tell you Kimmy Jo, I have appreciated your comments, insights, and logical explanations ... thanks so much!

I particularly liked your observations here:

(Kimmy Jo said) "I have to agree with this statement you made. when JW's read such things i believe it makes everyone suspect and breeds alot of tattle-tale's and gossipers."

(Kimmy Jo said) "...In fact, the organization itself is full of indecision, deceit and contradictions which it feeds the people of the congregations calling it truth from God. A follower or onlooker should expect and see much higher standards."

Boy, you said a mouthful in that last statement immediately above!

One should expect more from an organization that claims to be "God's organization". Not perfection, but more.

One thing there has to be more of is accountability - yes, more accountability.

For what? False hopes (predictions of the end) that have lead many people ill prepared for the future, esp. financially.

A deficient pedophile policy. www.silentlambs.org

Association with the UN. (Who was held accountable for that whopper of a decision to join as an NGO???)

Never an apology either. The latest understanding of the generation read like this, 'previously this journal' explained the generation to be the evil generation living in the time of the end.

Journal? Wasn't it the GB that previously said this? This is a classic example of stating a wrong understanding without putting the blame on anyone. They have this down to a science.

Gosh... geez. Where's their conscience on these matters?

Governing Body Letters said...

"......they are serving the watchtower and all it represents. the one telling you that you serve Jehovah is the watchtower and that is NOT good enough."
--------------------------------
You are right kimmy jo. Jehovah's Witnesses serve the Watchtower and not God. In fact, they have even made the Watchtower their mediator as they teach that you can only know Jehovah by becoming a member of their organization.
A sacriledge!