Tuesday, September 30, 2008

New Tract "Would You Like To Know The Truth"?






The new tract is entitled "Would you Like To Know The Truth"?
What they do not tell the reader is that this is "truth" as defined by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and is open to change at any time.

55 comments:

chocolatepuddingeyes said...

This is a classic example of "the hook."

Unfortunately, it may take decades for a person to figure out the difference between Bible truth and WT propaganda from the evil slave, since the same organization is dispensing both.

passwordprotected said...

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life". Happiness is being aware of our spiritual need and that spiritual need can only be satisfied through Christ. That's what the good news is all about.

It's only through knowing Christ that a person can find true answers. Jesus said "if you have seen me, you have seen my father."

Studying Jesus Christ's life and teachings free us from worries, doubts and fears. We have purpose in our life. We understand why we're hear. We come to know God.

How did Jesus say people would come to the truth? He said they'd have to come to him. He said his father's word was truth, so reading the Bible was vitally important. And while some may think Bible is a lengthy book, hard to understand, Jesus said he'd send the Holy Spirit as a teacher and helper.

Jesus also said he'd be with those desiring to come him, all the days until the end of the system. Jesus said that he had all authority in heaven and on earth.

So, the TRUTH is Jesus Christ. The TRUTH is God's Word the Bible.

kimmy jo said...

Same old hook and bait.

DO NOT BE MISLEAD. DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE BECOMING INVOLVED.

The Watchtower is NOT the way to God.

spiritualbrother said...

I wonder how many of those who receive this tract will actually read it or request for a study.

steve said...

It says under the subject of prayer about many praying in many religions.

'yet many feel that their prayers are not answered.'

Note the way that that statement is written. It is designed to make the casual reader think that the majority of people in other religions do not feel their prayers are answered.

It is misleading because the statement, 'Many feel that their prayers ARE answered', could just as easily be inserted here.

It is designed to lead you to the conclusion that there is a religion where all have their prayers answered, the TRUE RELIGION. Which is of course untrue, because I know 'many' JWs who dont feel their prayers are answered... especially the one about the the new system!

Anonymous said...

Some people refer to "Cosmo" magazine as "The Bible". You can read & believe anything you want from anyone. I can read McD's menu and find a reason to believe it's from God. You believe what you want to believe. If someone is urging you on, then even more so. Thats why people see visions in window distortions and make pilgrimages to see them, or pay thousands for a Jesus shaped Cheet-O on eBay, etc. People want to believe there is a superior being that they can communicate with and recieve visions or information from. People have a need to be led, they don't want to make their own decisions, for fear of failing. Mindless SHEEP! I was a JW for 30+ yrs, no more mindless following for me. I'll just take my Cosmo, thanks!

Anonymous said...

And PS: FYI-My Cosmo subscription is waaaay cheaper than my membership at the KH too!!!!!! It's all about the money people. It's a business, a corporation. This brochure isn't supposed to be given away for free either. Altho, I could never bring myself to ask people for money when I placed literature. I was ashamed to. As were soooo many others. We just kept paying & supplying ourselves with the mags etc. *sigh* vicious cyle. Gets you nowhere. Just lines the WTBS pockets.

Voice of Reason said...

If you focused on how things change, then why have you not written about what in the tract has changed?

Nothing has.

And Chocolate:

What is the difference between the Bible truth and what is in the tract?

Kimmy Jo said"The Watchtower is NOT the way to God."

Well, Kimmy, People don't know God except for what the Watchtower has taught. The ones who rejected it do not know God.

Anon:

The KH and the literature is not about money. Never has and never will be.

Anonymous said...

VoR = Troll = No Response Needed

Anonymous said...

VOR...you are such a mindless robot. Like a Stepford! And just because you don't get to keep any of the money collected at the meetings doesn't mean there isn't money made by the corporation. How do you think they keep buying & building? And supporting the robots that print the stuff? Keep paying them to program you! You seem to enjoy it. Why are you still on here? You are going to get caught! Then you will have a judicial meeting and a public annoncement will be made, then everyone will be speculating about what it is that you did. "Whisper, whisper.." I hate that place. I left of my own accord. Just stopped going one day. Never went back. I am not DF'd. Never had any problems with the elders. If they want to DF me then, w/e. I am not going back anyway. I "escaped" from that prison.

Sheeplike said...

It is so much easier to attack than for many of you to prove your point SCRIPTURALLY.

What in this tract is not according to the Bible?

"passwordprotected said...
Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life". Happiness is being aware of our spiritual need and that spiritual need can only be satisfied through Christ. That's what the good news is all about"

Jehovah's Witnesses believe and accept all that. Bible truth is refreshing. Even comedians note how only Jehovah's Witnesses are always smiling.

The Truth makes you happy, unlike so many who post here.

Anonymous said...

A smile could be an upside-down frown.

Long-time JW's who have seen the REAL truth know that all is not well in pleasantville.

But you are right, real TRUTH can be very liberating and bring a great big smile to one's face:

www.jwfacts.com

kimmy jo said...

Kimmy Jo said"The Watchtower is NOT the way to God."


vor/ronde says,
"Well, Kimmy, People don't know God except for what the Watchtower has taught. The ones who rejected it do not know God."

I ask,
YOU ARE KIDDING, RIGHT??

Bud said...

Has anyone done the legwork to figure out the net worth of the Watchtower Society? It is a big job to find out what the various corporations and entities are valued at. I sure would like to see it if anyone has already done it.

Bud said...

I've noticed many insinuations about the wealth of the Society. I'm not necessarily convinced that there is anyone benefiting personally from the dollars coming in. I think it would be an eye opener to some who are considering leaving their estate to the WT to know what kind of money the Society is working with.

chocolatepuddingeyes said...

Sheeplike,

I don't see any comments attacking the tract specifically, pointing out any errors. Like I said in my first post, the tract is a hook. It uses Bible truth to hook a person into trusting the organization that published the tract.

From my perspective, the problem is that it could literally take decades for a person to figure out the difference between Bible truths that the WTS dispenses and Satanic propaganda from the evil slave element residing in the same house.

I think the part that you are not getting is that thousands of sincere JW's are figuring out that certain teachings of the WTS are simply not true. The passage of time has proven them to be false. Upon further investigation, a person finds out that the whole 1914 doctrine and everything built upon that is a fraud. The Revelation Climax book is a good example of how the Society wove a web of lies and deceit, telling the sheep that this, that, and the other thing have already occurred. If they were to admit the truth they would have to give up their claim to being the faithful and discreet slave.

The GB members already know that the books they have published contain false teachings, such as Satan being ousted from heaven in 1914 and the Rutherford gang being appointed as the faithful and discreet slave in 1918/19. They are involved in continuing the lies. Do your research. Investigate the history of all the 1914 doctrines. When you find out how they originated, then maybe you will be able to understand what I'm talking about.

Voice of Reason said...

Bud said:
"Has anyone done the legwork to figure out the net worth of the Watchtower Society? It is a big job to find out what the various corporations and entities are valued at. I sure would like to see it if anyone has already done it. "

Should anyone care?

If you don't like it, don't contribute.

Voice of Reason said...

Chocolate said:
"I don't see any comments attacking the tract specifically, pointing out any errors. Like I said in my first post, the tract is a hook. It uses Bible truth to hook a person into trusting the organization that published the tract."

Is that bad? Is teaching people the truth from the Bible a bad thing? It is not a case of trusting the organization, but researching one's own bible to understand the answers.

"From my perspective, the problem is that it could literally take decades for a person to figure out the difference between Bible truths that the WTS dispenses and Satanic propaganda from the evil slave element residing in the same house."

If there is a difference,then why haven't you stated that here?

"I think the part that you are not getting is that thousands of sincere JW's are figuring out that certain teachings of the WTS are simply not true. "

Why hasn't anyone said what they are?

"The passage of time has proven them to be false. Upon further investigation, a person finds out that the whole 1914 doctrine and everything built upon that is a fraud. "

Not true. 1914 is solid from the Bible and chronology.

"The Revelation Climax book is a good example of how the Society wove a web of lies and deceit, telling the sheep that this, that, and the other thing have already occurred. "

Well, it did occur.


"The GB members already know that the books they have published contain false teachings, such as Satan being ousted from heaven in 1914 and the Rutherford gang being appointed as the faithful and discreet slave in 1918/19."

Except that what you stated is not true. We do not say that.

Revelation says that Satan was ousted from heaven and Bible chronology says in 1914. We do not say that 1918/1919 Rutherford was appointed. We say that Babylon the great fell and the preaching work started then.

You do not understand things to make any claims.

Anonymous said...

Ronde wrote: "It is not a case of trusting the organization"

To the contrary. For JWs, it's ALL ABOUT trusting the organization.

The organization is the 'ark of salvation' for JWs.

For the rest of us, Christ will do just fine.

Voice of Reason said...

"For the rest of us, Christ will do just fine. "

When does this start?

I have not seen anyone not one of Jehovah's Witnesses actually trust the Christ and imitate him?

And, I am not Ronde.

Anonymous said...

Ronde/VoR/anon wrote: "I have not seen"

I'm quite certain you haven't seen it. You're not allowed to even look.

Anonymous said...

those pictures were taken from JWD forum.

at least we know GBL is not inside the congregation, but acting as he is or has sources there

Anonymous said...

Anon,

It sounds as if you ARE on the inside, regularly attending meetings.

Will you please print this out and get an answer for me?

----------

*** g93 3/22 p. 4 Why So Many False Alarms? ***

"Jehovah’s Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus’ second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate" predictions ‘in the name of Jehovah.’


*** w79 9/1 p. 29 par. 28 The Royal “Shepherd” of Bible Prophecy ***

"Unlike the clergy class, those of the Jeremiah class have been sent by Jehovah to speak in his name."


(Deuteronomy 18:20-22) 20 “‘However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.’

Anonymous said...

"Will you please print this out and get an answer for me?"

What is the question?

"did they presume to originate" predictions ‘in the name of Jehovah.’ "

JWs do not originate any predictions, but we use the Bible as the basis.

As for Deut, the time has not come yet so you can not say that "the word does not occur or come true".

The Writing Department said...

"What is the question?"

Does your organization originate predictions in the name of Jehovah?

kimmy jo said...

anon quotes,
"(Deuteronomy 18:20-22) 20 “‘However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.’"


Good scripture anon, says alot about the organization, doesn't it?

Voice of Reason said...

Kimmy Joe said regarding Deut 18:20-22

"Good scripture anon, says alot about the organization, doesn't it? "

Well, no it does not say anything. Since no one claims to be Moseslike and the prophesy is about finding the successor to Moses, it is not relevant at all.

Anonymous said...

*** w79 9/1 p. 29 par. 28 The Royal “Shepherd” of Bible Prophecy ***

"Unlike the clergy class, those of the Jeremiah class have been sent by Jehovah to speak in his name."

JWs continue to dodge the question. Let's repeat it.

Does your organization originate predictions in the name of Jehovah?

Voice of Reason said...

"Does your organization originate predictions in the name of Jehovah? "

No.

Predict means to speak before it happens. We speak that the kingdom will come before it happens, but we did not originate that. Hint, its in the Bible.

Nathan Knorr's Indigestion said...

Ronde, please explain what your organization means in their article, here.

"Unlike the clergy class, those of the Jeremiah class have been sent by Jehovah to speak in his name."

I need to examine what this Jeremiah class is saying in Jehovah's name. Please provide some of this for me.

Anonymous said...

A couple of things. To someone that says the "faithful slave" publishes lies, that is ridiculous. There have been some within the "faithful slave" who have used the society as a tool to print their own views and ideas because they wanted power and were prideful, but these have been disfellowshipped if they did not repent of their wrongdoing. The faithful slave has made ajustments of their Bible undertanding as time has progressed. So if they print something that is later understood to be wrong they adjust it, they've always been open about that. Now a lie is something said or not said to intentionally deceive someone, that is what a lot of you are trying to do, not what Jehovah's Witnesses do.

This tract publishes what the truth is according to the "faithful slave's" understanding of the Bible. If you disagree with any of it, and you really think you are a Christian then it is your obligation to tell your neighbors the truth, you should be witnessing about the truth, and if you have Jehovah's blessing then certainly you will prosper and he will make you grow as is promsied in the Bible.

And these basic truths have been understood by Jehovah's people all throughout history. The changes in our understanding of certain Bible prophecies have nothing to do with the basic truths stated here.

When it is Jehovah time he reveals things to his servants. If they misunderstand things at certain times because it is not God's timetable doesn't mean they do not have the truth.

The apostles didn't understand that Jesus was going to heaven to rule over earth, they even asked him: (Acts 1:6) . . .“Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?”

Just because they didn't understand the time-table doesn't all the sudden make them liars, or mean they didn't have the truth. They certainly did have the truth because Jesus was the truth and he was with them at that time. But Jesus basically told them that it was none of their business at that time.

When it was Jehovah's time to reveal the matter to his "faithful slave" he did and they understood it. And perhaps they didn't undersatnd everything perfectly at the time, just like the apostles didn't, doesn't mean they didn't have the truth.

I am guessing, correct me if I'm wrong, but I am guessing that no one here is part of an organization apart from the Jehovah's Witnesses that takes the time to print Bible literature and go from door to door like Jesus and his apostles to share the truth with the people.

I am guesisng that no one here, apart from the Jehovah's Witnesses are trying to remain awake spiritually and are warning their neigbors out of love of the coming Great Tribulation and what that means for mankind as prophezied in the Bible.

I am guessing this because I have never had anyone from any other religion come to my door with good news. But the Jehovah's Witnesses do. And you are wrong, they don't try to hook anyone.

When they go to the door you can ask them any question and they would be happy to answer them for you. If they don't know the answer, which is quite possible for there are new witnesses every day, hundreds of thousands a year, and so obviously there will be witnesses at differnt levels of understanding of Bible truth.

This is a wonderful campaign and the work is directed by Jesus. Those bickering against his brothers are really bickering against Jesus himself. Why you may ask:

Then he will say, in turn, to those on his left, ‘Be on YOUR way from me, YOU who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels...Truly I say to YOU, To the extent that YOU did not do it to one of these least ones, YOU did not do it to me.’ And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.” - Matthew 25:41, 45, 46.

Bud said...

Anonymous
It sounds like things are going well for you in truth. As it did for all of us until it didn't. Your perspective changes dramatically when someone you care about is treated cruely. For example, if a relative is raped and then subsequently disfellowshipped and won't be allowed to be reinstated until she acknowledges it was her own fault. So the general thinking is "look at all the good that is being accomplished" and don't make so much about the injustice and suicide and misery that is caused by the same organization that is doing the marvelous preaching work.

Anonymous said...

Bud said:
"It sounds like things are going well for you in truth. As it did for all of us until it didn't. "

So you are in the truth until it is not good for you. So the true religion is about about what is good for you?

"Your perspective changes dramatically when someone you care about is treated cruely."

So the true religion is all about how people treat people and not about worshipping God and how he wants people to act?

"For example, if a relative"

So it is or isn't the true religion because of what people do?

You have some really selfish look at religion.

Anonymous said...

"It sounds like things are going well for you in truth. As it did for all of us until it didn't. Your perspective changes dramatically when someone you care about is treated cruely."

Every single person in the truth will be tested, and everyone in God's organization will face people within it that will wrong them some way some time. So the ones that stay are the ones who have been through what everyone else have been through, the only difference is that there loyalty is with Jehovah, not an organization.

The fact that they preceive with spiritual eyes of understanding that Jehovah is useing the "faithful slave" means they wilingly submit to the authority given them. Yes Jesus apointed his anointed ones over all his belongings on earth, this includes the anointed left on earth and those with an earthly hope.

Since pentecost of 33 C. E. Jehovah has ONLY used his faithful slave to provide spiritual food to mankind. All the Bible writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures were of the faithful slave. And all throughout history as apostate Christianity took root there were still anointed memebers that God used to disperse spiritual food. Stalwart men such as William Tyndale, John Wycliff, among others were no doubt of this class.

But Jesus showed us in prophecy that that the conclusion of the system of things a harvest would take place, and his anointed remnant the "faithful slave" would be seperated from false religion, which he has done, and he has apointed them over all his earthly belongings. Jehovah is a God of order, not like Satan who is divided against himself because he is close to falling. The only way to Jehovah is through the channel he has provided. And again, the way you treat Jesus' brothers while on earth, is basically the way you treat Jesus, and you will be judged by him accordingly. See aobve cited scripture in Matthew 25.

The organiation is obviously filled with imperfect men. And Jesus sees it. Read his letter to the seven congregations in Revelation chapters two and three. There Jesus revealed he was intimiatly acquinted will all the works of his congregations and included in them were things as fornication being permitted, apostacy being permitted or shunned, spiritual idolatry, the love of some had grown cold, and a list of other things.

Did this mean they were somehow no longer God's anointed congregation? No. But Jesus did tell those who needed to change to act or he would do away with them.

Revelation was written in signs for us whom the end of the system of things have arrived. If that was going on in the first century, certainly that would apply symbolically to the congregations on earth in this the last days! How ignorant and foolish to think that because one sees wrong things going on in the congregation that Jesus is not in charge, or that he does not know what is going on, and that he does not act perfectly!

In fact, those who press ahead and want action to take place or things to change that have not are actually saying they know more than Jesus himself, and that they have no confidence or faith in Jesus to run his congregation. This is out of ignorance, and a prideful heart.

Trust in Jehovah with all your heart and lean not upon your own understanding. Jehovah and his son Jesus know far better than any human the flaws of their servants, and they know best when to take action or to show mercy. And Jehovah is a God of love and mercy, so he would rather show mercy, yes to you whom are not deserving, and to I who is not worthy, and even to our brothers who may have offended us, who are not worthy. None of us are worhty, you see. It is only by the great and good undeserved kindness of God that we even have a hope.

Stop bickering among yourselfs. Never let anything stumble you, for then are you not giving Satan the victory? While for the rightouess man there is nothing that could ever stumble him:

(Psalm 119:165) Abundant peace belongs to those loving your law, And for them there is no stumbling block.

But some do go out, while others remain faithful to Jesus and Jehovah. Why is that?

(1 John 2:19) . . .They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.

Anonymous said...

'How ignorant and foolish to think that because one sees wrong things going on in the congregation that Jesus is not in charge, or that he does not know what is going on, and that he does not act perfectly!'

He allows some elders and ministerial servants to carry on child abuse for many years damaging the children for life.

Anonymous said...

"He allows some elders and ministerial servants to carry on child abuse for many years damaging the children for life. "

This is where you are wrong.

If the child remains in the truth, then the child can be redeemed of imperfection and such things will not be called to the mind or the heart as it says in Isaiah and Revelation.

Thus the real abusers are the apostates because they want to deny the child of the fulfillment of the scriptures.

Bud said...

Anonymous
Pick a name.
Your thoughts are so eloquently put. I could have written the same rhetoric myself.
Your tune will change when you are cut to the heart by someone you love being unjustly treated by elders (imperfect men).
You do a great dishonor to Jesus to say that he is supervising this circus. He treated women with love and respect (gasp: even sinners). If the org. was really serious about representing Jesus honorably, they would teach the older men to treat all in the cong. tenderly. Is this impossible? Not at all.
Those of us who have left have done so because of our strong desire to please Jehovah and model our lives after Jesus. We never imagined that we would be doing so w/o the association of the cong. but find ourselves in that very situation. After a period of outrage and hurt, we can learn to be less judgemental and more loving than we formerly were. It ends up good after you get past the hard part.

Voice of Reason said...

Bud said:
"Your tune will change when you are cut to the heart by someone you love being unjustly treated by elders (imperfect men)."

Oh, but I have been treated as such by the elders, but that is no reason to stop serving Jehovah with his congregation in the way that he has set up from the Bible.

MY feelings do not trump God's will, and neither does yours.


"You do a great dishonor to Jesus to say that he is supervising this circus. He treated women with love and respect (gasp: even sinners). "

Well, yes he did. And if we did everything right there would be no need for meetings and assemblies to teach them to do better would there?

"If the org. was really serious about representing Jesus honorably, they would teach the older men to treat all in the cong. tenderly. Is this impossible? Not at all."

And how do you know what the older men are taught?

Anonymous said...

"He allows some elders and ministerial servants to carry on child abuse for many years damaging the children for life. "

This is where you are wrong.

'If the child remains in the truth, then the child can be redeemed of imperfection and such things will not be called to the mind or the heart as it says in Isaiah and Revelation.

Thus the real abusers are the apostates because they want to deny the child of the fulfillment of the scriptures.'

That is so twisted!

Oh, and you didnt deny that Elders and MS get away with it and Jehovah does nothing about it.

Anonymous said...

VOICE: "Well, Kimmy, People don't know God except for what the Watchtower has taught."

You have just said that for the 2000 years in between Jesus'day and the time Pastor Russell started writing Zion's Watchtower no one could know God.

That's an astounding presumption!

A statement like that sets limits on Almighty God, as if the Great I Am, could not make Himself known to any one He chose to?

Is this "the truth" you're been taught by the Watchtower, or did you come to that conclusion on your own?

Anonymous said...

"It is not a case of trusting the organization, but researching one's own bible to understand the answers."

I took your advice, and did that with the Watchtower claim that God operates through organizations. They use Acts 15 to support that claim so I did research in my own bible.

But Acts 15 says no such thing. The entire chapter is about just one event--a legal proceding between Paul, Banabas and certain Judean Christians over whether or not the Gentiles converts to Christ needed to be circumsized.

Here it is:

THE PROBLEM: 15:1 "Now some men came down [to Antioch, Syria] from Judea and began to teach the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” [Frightening the new Gentile believers.]

THE REACTION 15:2 Paul and Barnabas [who had been ministering to these Gentiles] had a major argument and debate with them"…about this issue.

THE REASON FOR THE TRIP 15:4"When they [Paul and Barnabas] arrived in Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the whole church…and reported the things God had done with them." [the Gentiles].

THE TRIAL BEGINS 15:5 "But some from the religious party of the Pharisees [Remember Paul had been a Pharisee] had believed [in Jesus] stood up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise the Gentiles and to order them to observe the Law of Moses.” [Not an unreasonable conclusion for those who recognized the Jesus as Israel’s savior.]

DELIBERATION 15:6 After much debate the apostles and the elders met together to deliberate on the merits of the case [No decision was reached.]

PETER’S TESTIMONY "Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that some time ago God chose me to preach to the Gentiles so they would hear the message of the gospel and believe… So now why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear?” [Paul was a stranger to the Apostles at Jerusalem. It took one of their own, Peter, to convince them of the validity of Paul’ argument.]

SAVED BY GRACE 15:11 "On the contrary, we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they are.”

THE PLAINTIFFS SPEAK 15:12 "The whole group kept quiet and listened to Barnabas and Paul while they explained all the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them."

BASIS FOR THE JUDGEMENT 15:14"Simeon [Simon Peter] has explained how God first concerned himself to select from among the Gentiles a people for his name."

THE DETERMINATION 15:19 “Therefore I [James, the brother of Jesus Christ, speaks in the singular, suggesting he alone reached this decision] conclude that we should not cause extra difficulty for those among the Gentiles who are turning to God, but that we should write them a letter [No copy of this important document has been found.] telling them to abstain (1) from things defiled by idols and (2) from sexual immorality and (3) from what has been strangled and
(4)'from blood’."

There are several significant factors in this chapter.

1. The Apostle Paul (who wrote the majority of the Greek Scriptures) had not ever contacted the Apostles living in Jerusalem before this case came up; and there is no scriptural basis for believing that he ever did again. Therefore there is no evidence here supporting the idea that God an uses an organization'.

Teh final determination makes it clear that Christians had to act as one body for James instructions were addressed specifically to Gentile believers. The letter did NOT apply to the Jewish believers who made up the majority of Christ’s followers at that time.

We know from many references in the Greek Scriptures that the apostles, and disciples faithfully kept the Torah’s Feasts; honored the Sabbath and regularly went to synagogue!

Further, we recognize that Jesus expected the Mosaic Covenant to be done away with because Jesus included this significant statement in his list of the ‘Signs of the Time of the End’ at Matthew 24:20::
“Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the SABBBATH”.)

Given the strict interpretation of James’ decision by the Watchtower Organization, the EATING OF BLOOD (or having transfusions of blood) is wrong; however the likelihood of the Covenants against the SHEDDING OF BLOOD are not given consideration in their interpretation of the phrase “from blood”.

So...there was a lot to learn there but none of it had anything to do with God established orgaization.

Voice of Reason said...

If the gb is wrong, then why are there so many bloodless surgical centers around the world?

Bethel Coat Room Goblin said...

Ronde wrote: "If the gb is wrong, then why are there so many bloodless surgical centers around the world?"

This is what is known as a Red Herring.

Ex-JWs have no problem with bloodless surgery. We would be just as delighted as you would be if scientist were to create a fake blood, removing this issue from the table.

The point is this: You decide to let you children die, if the doctors decide a blood transfusion is necessary.

Unless you can provide EVIDENCE, I will maintain that the GB and bloodless medicine have nothing to do with one another.

Whether or not bloodless surgery is a superior medical technique has ZERO to do with the Bible.

Anonymous said...

A brother once who let pride take him out of the truth and into contact with wicked demon angels, an anointed brother once wrote about his experience and prayed that perhaps it may help others in the future. Perhaps that brothers experience and his humility can help those even today, although we should not be suprised that there are those that put their faith in humans an not God himself, an fall away, the reply by brother Russell to this brother is very enlightening and reveals the truth about seveal matters, and gets to the heart of the matter, your heart:

DELIVERANCE FROM THE ADVERSARY
BROTHER C. T. RUSSELL:-
Dear Sir.-
Yielding to an impulse I am writing to you, baring the present thoughts and intents of my heart before him who knoweth them all and who-O wondrous grace-careth for me even after all these years that I have been in the hands of the adversary, who beat and pounded and plucked me bare while I cried, Oh, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? I trust you will bear with me while I recall the past and try to explain how I got so far out of harmony with the “Watch Tower Society” and the spirit of the truth. I had been a very close student of scriptures and a “come-outer” since 1875; your chronology in Vol III., M. D., was just suited to my mind and I began to study the subject closely. I saw a chance to differ from you and sent my findings to a brother in the truth who rather liked them and encouraged me to study and write some more.

Now this was all lawful, and it helped me much because I had arrived nearly at the same conclusion as you, but the thought that I could successfully cope with Brother Russell in his findings on chronology had puffed me up considerably, and I felt that I might be able to find other flaws. At this time you called for such as were “in fullest harmony,” with M. D. and W. T. teachings, who had some talent in the way of leading meetings, that they might be sent here and there under the name of pilgrims and representatives of W. T. office at the society’s expense. I had not the least talent in that direction, so I could not feel slighted at not being invited.

At this point, and through hints dropped by others, I became fearful that Brother Russell was seeking to draw around us the lines of sectarianism and bind me within a society where “fullest harmony” with the teachings of M. D. was to be the test of the Lord’s approval.

I rebelled against this with what to me seemed righteous indignation and right here the adversary got me. I know it was here because I am not ignorant of his method of attack, as you will see further on.

Some unclean demon appealing to me through my righteous hatred of sectism gave me the mental suggestion that Bro. R. was trying to place himself over us, and this demon kept suggesting these words-“I will not have this man reign over me.” This was not a passing thought, it was a suggestion applied to my mind over and over again, and while I was not sure of this at that time I am positive now because of my experience with these evil spirits.

I then began to lose interest in the truth and tried to save myself by writing continuously on subjects differing from Bro. R. while I longed for something to inspire me and take the place of the “Watch Tower” but found nothing.

This was the demon’s opportunity, and he began to torment me at my work. If I put something down I could not find it when I wanted it. Everything went wrong; business was a failure, debts piled up, and I was now fighting mad. Let me pass over the rest of this sad experience; it would only give you pain if I should relate it here. I come now to the time I became personally acquainted with four unclean demons. I had heard that they were in darkness as to the truth, but I found that they knew the Scriptures and Brother Russell better than I. I merely mention here a few things, such as discussing Scripture with them and English translation of Greek words.

The subject turned to the “Seventh Trumpet” and “the strong delusion that should deceive even the very elect if it were possible.” They represented themselves as the angels of the seventh trumpet sent forth with the truth of God for the elect and to save them from the strong delusion with which Spiritualists were to deceive the whole world by their wonderful feats.

The intense inquisitiveness in my make-up that made a close student of me had now got me into communication with demons through reading Spiritualistic books and papers, together with that longing desire for the spiritual. Nevertheless I still held on to the truth and was proof against all these vain sophistries that make for “outer darkness,” and I prayed God in desperation to take me out of the depravity into which I had fallen. How I longed to be a Christian and back in the sunshine of God’s love once more. I even apologized for God’s favor on the ground that he might use me in the other age, exhibiting me as a miracle of his glorious grace for the encouragement of the depraved.

It is now more than a year since I began to find my way back into the favor of God through continuously watching and praying. It has been a wonder to me how God could ever look upon me again with the least desire. The thought seems to answer this, that it was not on my account but on account of the great love wherewith our Heavenly Father loved his only begotten by whom and for whom all things were created. John speaks of those who manifest the Spirit of Christ in love for the brethren that in such God’s love is made perfect. He loves them for what they are, and this love seems to be that kind referred to by the Apostle in these words-“Keep yourself in the love of God.”

I feel grateful to God for the encouragement he has given me, and his tender care over me has been wonderful. He has led me back over the same lines of Truth and has granted me, seemingly as a tonic, to see new beauties in the truth I had learned so that they come to me with new relish as when I first received them. Just so you have found new beauty in the truth on the covenants. Without unlearning anything you have added greatly to the truth as a whole, and I have entered into your joy.

Dear Brother, I wish I could say something as a warning to others, not because you do not see the danger to those who seem to have the contentious spirit, but because I have had such a sad experience. I feel anxious to put the brethren on the alert that they might judge themselves and weed out any little root of bitterness in their heart so that they may escape the chastening of the Lord.

If those brethren who are just a little fearful for the Lord’s work in your hands could only realize how the hosts of darkness are pressing them and watching for an occasion to slip in a mental suggestion; appealing to their honor here, that they might find an entrance there! We read that “the angels of the Lord are encamped around them that fear him to deliver them.” May it not be reasonable at least that the Lord has withdrawn his-bodyguard at this crucial time that the soldiers of the cross might all the more place their reliance in “the sword of the spirit” and “the shield of faith”?

Realizing that the time is short already short, there is every reason that we give heed to what we have already learned. The command at San Juan Hill-“Every man watch out for himself,” is appropriate at present, and he who insists on his comrade keeping step with him is in greater danger.

You have what is termed a “vow.” I do not know much about it, only I read the one in last “Tower” and will say that it expresses exactly my heart’s desire and prayer to God. The paragraph on the opposite sex is very timely in view of the great power which Satan has taken to himself, so that the members of Christ may refrain from every appearance of evil lest the powers of darkness gain an advantage.

Now I want to put myself on record here, and feel that my experience justifies the claim that I know whereof I speak.

It is this. The closer one is living to the Lord, the more will he love Brother Russell and the truth which he stands for, the more love will he have for the brethren, and, as a consequence, the more God will love him.

If this “vow” be intended to bring the church of God into closer fellowship with each other, that they be of one mind and one spirit, then the present is the providential moment to use this “vow” as it is intended. It is well to have the sheep disposition and to flock closely together in time of danger.

I have written this with a full heart and eyes moistened, but not with the hopeless tears of Esau, because the Spirit of the Lord is with me and has caused me to hope when there was no hope, and with God’s help I feel encouraged to take up the lines where I let them slip and press forward to the mark of the prize, and where it will be the very law of my nature to walk in the paths of righteousness and peace.

Yours very sincerely,
ALEX ALLAN.

DEAR BROTHER ALLAN::
Your letter made me glad. I rejoice with you that you are recovered from “the snare of the fowler.” Surely it is true that “we wrestle not with flesh and blood merely; but with wicked spirits in high positions,” possessed of great intelligence and wily. What your letter expresses we have often wished to say to the dear friends, but have hesitated lest, instead of doing them good as we desire, we might do them harm by giving them even a flimsy excuse for saying that we endeavored to throttle their liberties. Alas! how few realize what a dangerous thing liberty is-how carefully it must be used for our benefit and how easily it might be misused to our eternal danger. Because God created us free agents; because this is part of his likeness; and because, additionally, ambition must be a part of every progressive individual therefore this free agency and ambition in conjunction bring us all under tests of character. And the greater our abilities, the more our talents and the wider our influence, the stronger the power of ambition may become. Then comes the test. Will this laudable ambition be subject to the divine will-thoroughly consecrated to the Lord’s will even unto death?

If our devotion to the Lord be absolute, fully in control of our thoughts and words and doings, our liberty and largest ambition will be rightly directed and eventuate in blessings to ourselves and to others. But if the divine will be not first and absolutely in control of our wills the more ambition and the more liberty we have the greater will be our danger. Where the Lord is not reverenced, obeyed with all the heart, mind, soul and strength, some one else has an influence in our hearts; husband or wife, parents or children, or more than probable, self. We cannot be “overcomers” except as our hearts are absolutely loyal to the Lord, with self-will and every other will subjected to the divine will. This is the lesson of life to those who would come off conquerors. How we rejoice with you, dear Brother, that, although you were nearly vanquished in this struggle, you have finally, by God’s grace, recovered your balance.

It is not to be wondered at that the more prominent brethren have the more severe trials along this line. It must not surprise us if, in this evil day into which we have entered, we should find a considerable number of those possessed of talents or influences stumbling. Of this condition of things the Apostle forewarns us, saying, Be not many of you teachers, knowing that he who is a teacher will experience the more severe trials. (James 3:1) The deflection of some recognized as teachers will cause special trials to others not teachers and will prove to what extent they have a personal relationship to the Lord through an individual consecration to him and through his instructions by his Word and the prophecies-in the school of Christ. We fear that too many are in this attitude of leaning on others whose fall might bring them disaster.

It is because we have long recognized this principle that in all our writings, we have presented the Lord’s message as his message, and not as our own; giving the chapter and verse for every doctrine. If any are leaning on us or on anything but the Lord’s Word for guidance, we believe that the fault is not traceable to our teachings. We have striven to bring all the members of the body into direct personal contact with the Head. While not ignoring the value of books and sermons, we have, nevertheless, urged upon all the necessity of proving, to the extent of their ability, every item of truth which they receive. Notwithstanding this we fear that many of our dear readers lean upon us and upon others. We fully know that we are in the evil day and that the armor which the Lord provided is to be put on individually by each one of his faithful soldiers of the cross. We will use our shield, breastplate, helmet and sword in the defense, as much as possible, of all of the Lord’s people; but each must see to it that he puts on this armature for himself. The great King of the Universe has provided it. The great Captain of our salvation, Jesus, has invited us to put it on. We, as a corporal, merely call attention to the Captain’s order. Whoever is negligent will surely rue it.

The time for adjusting this armor is very short. The battle is on now. Many are falling at our side. What we do should be done quickly, energetically, systematically, thoroughly. It is important that we help others to the extent of our ability, but still more important according to the divine will, that we should take heed to ourselves and make our own calling and election sure. It has been our observation that some who have come into the Truth quite recently are much more clear in it and have the armor better adjusted and are able to use the “sword of the spirit” better, than some who have been in the truth for five, ten, and even twenty years. Indeed some who have been long in the truth seem less skillful today in the use of the armor than they were years ago. ….

…All these things are tests, dear Brother, and the sooner we realize this fact, the better for us. We have no fear that the great Shepherd now present with his sheep and gathering these who know his voice out of all the various Dens of Christendom will suffer the wolves to stampede his flock or to devour them. Has he not said, “The Father who gave them me is greater than all and none can pluck them out of my Father’s hand”?


The lesson to us all is “Humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God that he may exalt you in due time.” Let us not be heady, high-minded and worldly-wise, but humble, teachable and full of faith in the divine promises, which are so rapidly fulfilling and culminating.

Very truly your servant in the Lord,
C. T. RUSSELL.

Taze is a made up name! said...

Russell was a liar and a cheat.... miracle wheat, and committing perjury on more than one occasion in court.. Oh, and Pyramidology...he was a crackpot, and there is plenty of evidence to show that.

Voice of Reason said...

"Russell was a liar and a cheat.... miracle wheat, and committing perjury on more than one occasion in court.. Oh, and Pyramidology...he was a crackpot, and there is plenty of evidence to show that. "

That is why we don't believe he is the messiah and we put faith only in the Messiah named Jesus.

Russellizer Bunny Rabbit said...

Ronde wrote: "That is why we don't believe he is the messiah and we put faith only in the Messiah named Jesus"

1. Without Russell, there would be no JWs. Period.

2. Jesus is not your Mediator. You are a part of (an imaginary) secondary class of Christians, with an "organization" as your Mediator.

JWs hate it when you call them Russellites, but I believe the label is just as valid today, as it was one hundred years ago.

Voice of Reason said...

"Ronde wrote:"

No, Ronde did not write that.

"'That is why we don't believe he is the messiah and we put faith only in the Messiah named Jesus'"

"1. Without Russell, there would be no JWs. Period."

Wrong, Without Russell, someone else would have been used. The harvest is the harvest.

"2. Jesus is not your Mediator. You are a part of (an imaginary) secondary class of Christians, with an "organization" as your Mediator."

Who said anything about mediator. The great crowd does not need a mediator. There is no secondary class. I don't need Jesus as my mediator.


"JWs hate it when you call them Russellites, but I believe the label is just as valid today, as it was one hundred years ago."

Russell is just 1/144,000. Why not use the name of the other 143,999?

kimmy jo said...

"I don't need Jesus as my mediator."

vor,
you just contradicted the bible, or any christian belief, by saying this, JW or not.

you love to contradict and argue, don't you? you live for this blog.

Anonymous said...

VOR quotes: "…Jesus is not your Mediator. You are a part of (an imaginary) secondary class of Christians, with an "organization" as your Mediator."

VOR responds: “Who said anything about mediator. The great crowd does not need a mediator. There is no secondary class. I don't need Jesus as my mediator.”

“I DON’T NEED JESUS AS MY MEDIATOR.”

YIKES! Does that mean the Great Crowd and you don’t need ANY mediator…or that you already have one – the Watchtower Tract Society - so you don’t need Jesus?

Look at what the bible has to say on the subject of Jesus Christ as our mediator:

1. 1 Timothy 2:5 “For there is one God and ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN, THE MAN CHRIST JESUS.”

2. Hebrews 8:6 “But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as THE [NEW] COVENANT OF WHICH HE IS MEDIATOR is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.”

3. Hebrews 9:15 “For this reason CHRIST IS THE MEDIATOR of the new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance...”

4. Hebrews 12:24 “…to JESUS THE MEDIATOR OF A NEW COVENANT, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

5. John 14:6 “Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME.”

If you’ve been taught anything different, then your teachers have not taught from scriptures. Better ask them why they would want to deny all that biblical evidence.

Let us know what they say.

Snare & Racket Man said...

Ronde wrote: "why mention Russell"

EQUAL TO:

Average Mormon: "why mention Joseph Smith"

Both cults, both blinded by dogma.

"Read the Bible, not the Watchtower."

Anonymous said...

"Even comedians note how only Jehovah's Witnesses are always smiling."

Shseeplike, there's something wrong with your mind. The smiles you take to mean "we're so happy and you're so miserable" the rest of the world, comedians included, see as a sign of stupidity.

This reminds me of the JWs who went book bags in hand to Ground Zero smiling as they preached about The Coming End to the tired and sweaty men and women desperately working to find the living under the rubble. The Wits never lifted a hand to help. They just wanted to preached and offered their magazines 'for a contribution'. Did they get any respect from these volunteers? I think not.

(The very least they could have done was volunteer to help as training for their first post-Armageddon employment -- burying the dead in mass graves.)

Voice of Reason said...

Kimmy Jo,
Contradicted the Bible, No.

I understand the Bible and how the temple and covenants work.

I am not in the new covenant so I do not need a mediator mediating it with me.

But Jesus is my high priest, which is different than a mediator.

Voice of Reason said...

"“I DON’T NEED JESUS AS MY MEDIATOR.”
YIKES! Does that mean the Great Crowd and you don’t need ANY mediator…or that you already have one – the Watchtower Tract Society - so you don’t need Jesus?"

No, that just means that Jesus' job as a covenant mediator as the greater Moses, is applicable to only those of spiritual Israel, the 144,000.

You need to remember that a Moses was not a priest.


"Look at what the bible has to say on the subject of Jesus Christ as our mediator:
1. 1 Timothy 2:5 “For there is one God and ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN, THE MAN CHRIST JESUS.”"

Right. And I agree with it. But that word is used in a broader sense there. Not in the specific sense of the covenant, but overall.


"2. Hebrews 8:6 “But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as THE [NEW] COVENANT OF WHICH HE IS MEDIATOR is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.”"

Fine, but I am not in that new covenant.

"3. Hebrews 9:15 “For this reason CHRIST IS THE MEDIATOR of the new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance...”"

Again, I am not in that covenant.

"4. Hebrews 12:24 “…to JESUS THE MEDIATOR OF A NEW COVENANT, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel."

Ditto


"5. John 14:6 “Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME.”"

Nothing to do with mediator there.

That is the function of the high priest and he is priest for all who believe.

"If you’ve been taught anything different, then your teachers have not taught from scriptures. Better ask them why they would want to deny all that biblical evidence."

You do not know what you are talking about.

Steve said...

Quite recently, I attended a Kingdom Hall and a meeting of the JW's. They were informing everybody in the hall - not certain individuals or only specific groups - but absolutely everybody - men, women, children, babies - about the exact amount of money involved in the organisation.

Yet, there is ABSOLUTELY NO FORCE APPLIED for anybody to donate a single penny, unlike the churches claiming to be the way to God. So, if its about money, why don't they force you to make a contribution?

Nobody has actually disproved what the tract was saying, nobody has come back with a comment saying its wrong, nobody has said what other religions offer you the truth.

When you look around at the world today and you actually take the time to study what JW's teach and how they behave and how they are the only religion that continue to grow and continue to preach to the nations and follow the bible for its every word taking it as complete and utter truth, yet, people like most of you on here still cannot see - but thats because, as the Bible says, you are "blinded" by Satan.

JW's actually have a positive message for the future of mankind. What other organisation does that? In 6,000 years of human rulership, we've not achieved anything and we are in a worse state now than we have ever been. If we continue as we are without intervention, we wont be here much longer. Whereas, what the Bible has proved in the past the events that will happen, we can have absolutely confidence that what it fortells about Armageddon is very real and it is going to happen, whether people want to face up to it or not.

What other religion teachs you that you can have such a close and personal relationship with God - the creator of EVERYTHING. Most teach God to be a wicked doer, the cause of bad things and unhappiness. JW's believe you can have a personal and intimate relationship with God - a God that isn't called God or Lord, but who has a personal name - Jehovah.

The original bible scrolls contained over 6000 references to his name, yet, its been removed from so many translations of the bible today. The JW bible has fully restored that by being translated from one of the most reliable scrolls.

Another point, JWs are the largest group to have been persecuted against for their religious beliefs in the 20th century and people have tried to wipe us out - we haven't gone anywhere despite all that. Have you ever thought its because we have the Almighty creator on our side?

Also, why do other religions support the nations of the world, participating in war? JW's have absolutely no involvement what-so-ever with war, as God is against that. The other religions of today believe the Bible is outdated and needs to be modernised so they say its ok to be gay, to have sex outside of marriage and all sorts of other wrong teachings. Thats because they are all works of the Devil - a very real spirit being.

I would urge anybody who feels what I have said may have an ounce of truth, actually do their own research into this properly rather than listening to what was foretold would happen in the bible - true christians would be badmouthed and hated.

Only today I saw an article which simply mentioned the building of a new JW Kindgom hall. No big deal was it? The comments on it, however, turned into a slanging match and a badmouth against JW's - why? Because Satan has blinded people into thinking that way. He is, afterall, trying to prove God a liar.

I wish you all the best and I urge you to read - watchtower.org - and take note of what you learn.