Saturday, July 12, 2008

You Are Probably One of Jehovah's Witnesses........

If you believe that God ignored everyone for nearly 2,000 years, then suddenly gave His truth to a man who sold hats for a living and sat around drawing pictures and plans of pyramids,
If you think that service to God can be measured in hours,
If you shake your head at the followers of Jim Jones for drinking the Kool-Aid and dying and yet you stand by and watch your spouse, baby, mother, father die because a book publishing company says that transfusions are wrong,
If you believe that it is an example of love and kindness to visit with your grandchildren while forcing your disfellowshipped daughter to sit in the car outside,
If you think that passively taking in repetitious lectures at several meetings a week is a delightful spiritual experience,
If you cannot imagine that people who are not Jehovah’s Witnesses are capable of ethical and loving behavior,
If you feel that it is ethical behavior to shun (rather than counsel) people in your religious group who have committed a sin,
If you allow a book publishing corporation to take the place of Jesus Christ and become the mediator,
If you think the spiritual center of God's Kingdom is in Brooklyn, New York,
If you have ever reported a spouse to the elders for requesting oral sex,
If you feel guilty for having a friend or two outside the membership,
If you think it's an act of unfaithfulness to God to get an education or a decent job,
If you feel you have a great wealth of Bible knowledge, despite the fact that all you know is the Watchtower's interpretation of scripture,
If you think the name "Jehovah" appeared in the original writings of the Greek Scriptures,
If you believe that only anonymous and somewhat secretive old men in Brooklyn know which bible texts are to be interpreted literally and which symbolically,
If you believe that there is only one correct interpretation of a biblical text and that a publishing corporation knows the right one,
If a biblical statement outright disagrees with what is taught in the Watchtower, you believe the Watchtower is correct,
If you consider cleaning up a messy yard, cleaning Kingdom Hall toilets and vacuuming the Kingdom Hall carpets to be practice for working in the "New System of Things on Paradise Earth,”
If you think demons choose to reside in jewelry, furniture, china, books or blue smurfs,
If you feel that death is much more important than birth,
If you think that all men with facial hair are unacceptable, (although every picture in your publications show Jesus with a fully grown beard)
If you think that Overseers (district or circuit) do not receive a salary,
If your reaction to someone wearing a cross is the same as a vampire's,
If you think Jehovah’s Witnessess are not an authoritarian cult,
If you think the Watchtower is not a brainwashing tool,
If you think field service does not involve agriculture,
If you think congregation elders can be 30 years old and baptized for six months,
If you can imagine newspaper headlines that read "All humans on earth except Jehovah’s Witnesses are destroyed!" with joy in your heart,
If you can't have a conversation with another human being without saying "Jehovah,"
If you are a male and your first reaction to a brief interruption of a meeting, by the entrance of a beautiful woman wearing a miniskirt, is "how immodest that sister is,"
If you eat turkey on Thanksgiving and feel guilty about it, but insist that it is all right only because it was free from work or it was on sale (you are a Jehovah’s Witness in denial),
If you wrap presents in brown paper to give each other on "Family Gift Day," (you are a Jehovah’s Witness with too many "worldly associations.")
If you can't buy a pair of shoes without thinking about how comfortable they will need to be while walking down residential streets in 95 degree heat,
If you are a woman who just bought a dress that comes down to your mid-calf, has puffy sleeves, a collar that button to your chin and lace trim, then you are a Jehovah’s Witness with a part at the next Assembly,
If you have a child that is 3 years old that sits quietly for hours at a time while adults discuss mind-numbingly boring topics around him, (congratulations) you have broken your child's spirit,
If you think that all R-rated movies are too worldly and corrupting for grown adults to watch,
If you can't pick up anything to read without also picking up something to underline or highlight with,
If you insist on calling the New Testament the Greek Scriptures,
When you drive by a church or synagogue or mosque or temple you suddenly feel smug and superior,
When you drive by a Kingdom Hall you suddenly feel all warm and fuzzy,
If you've spent days at a baseball stadium and never saw a ball or drank a beer,
If you're always afraid someone might see and hear you when you're finally just being "normal”,
If most of the songs you sing have numbers for titles,
If most of your friends are referred to with the title "brother" or "sister"
If you've never watched "Friends" or "Seinfeld,"
If your church is a "hall" and a sermon is a "public talk",
If you wash cars, repair refrigerators, install flooring, or clean houses for a living, but still own at least five suits or dresses,
If you think that a door slamming shut is actually a form of persecution against the righteous,
If you can have a Bible study without a Bible,
If you're 25 years old and have never kissed anyone but your mom,
If you go to New York for the weekend and spend a whole day in a publishing factory in Brooklyn,
If the words "New Light" do not remind you of the hardware section at K-Mart
If you think morning coffee break is a perfect time to witness to someone,
If you have never had a Christmas tree,
If you check the Watchtower Index every time you have a question about anything,
If you find out that your co-worker's mother died, and your first thought is that it's a great opportunity to talk about the Kingdom
If the thought of entering a Christian bookstore sends shivers up and down your spine,
If you have no construction skills and you still go to all the nearby quick-build Kingdom Hall projects, (you might be a Jehovah’s Witness trying to get out of field service),
If you fully expect never to give or receive a present in December,
If hearing the term "Governing Body" causes you to become awestruck,
If you think the term "pioneer" refers to someone who works full-time (for free),
If you think Santa is another word for Satan and the elves are demons,
If Gospel music makes you cringe, but Kingdom Songs make you feel good, (and who else knows the Kingdom Songs?)
If the word "apostate" makes you shiver in terror,
If you think 1914 is a significant year in an apocalyptic time line,
If you think (or used to think) that 1975 was a significant year in an apocalyptic time line,
If you think 1799 is the start of the last days, 1874 is when Christ returned, and 1914 is the conclusion of Armageddon,
If you think you, on your own, misinterpreted or imagined the year 1975 as the year the end would come, thereby absorbing all responsibility away from the Watch Tower Society,
If you think the "New World Translation" is the least biased and most accurate translation of the hebrew and greek books known collectively as the Bible
If you think it takes two thousand years to collect a literal 144,000 true Christians,
If you think the organization was preaching the truth in the years 1914-1919,
If you believe that - mysteriously - there was a Governing Body before 1971,
If you believe that New Light that becomes Old Light and then becomes New Light again is God's way of doing things,
If the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society used to preach a certain teachings (like celebrating Christmas) years ago and you deny they ever did,
If someone says anything negative about the Watchtower you immediately go into defensive mode or walk away so that you don't hear,

30 comments:

grissom6471 said...

1) I don't believe that God ignored everyone for 2000 years. He knew his timetable for the gentiles times to end in 1914 and he picked the best one for the job. Obviously no one else was better at that time because they did not do better.

2) Jws don't believe that service to God is measured in hours. Field service reports are a statistical thing.

3) We don't "stand by and watch your spouse, baby, mother, father die", we find competent surgeons that can do surgery without blood. If they can't do it without blood, they are not competent.

4) "forcing your disfellowshipped daughter to sit in the car outside,
". That does not happen unless you are stating what one person did. That is their choice.

5)"repetitious lectures at several meetings a week" is much better than being a sour puss like you are.

6)"people who are not Jehovah’s Witnesses are capable of ethical and loving behavior", but it is meaningless if they are not serving Jehovah. And it is simply that which is common to humanity and not related to God.

7) We don't shun those "who have committed a sin,", those who are unrepentant sinners are disfellowshipped.

8)We don't worship the Watchtower Society (like you do) and it is not our mediator.

9)The spiritual center of God's kingdom is in heaven. The spiritual center of the earthly part of God's kingdom is in each branch and Brooklyn, Patterson and Wallkill.

10) That makes no sense. Spouses don't request oral sex, they voluntarily give it. Sex is not to be requested. Are you a hooker or something?

11)Membership of what? I feel guilty over nothing.

12)Jehovah's Witnesses don't feel it is an "act of unfaithfulness to God to get an education or a decent job" as we have an education and decent jobs (if such a thing even exists)

13) Watchtower interpretation, whatever that means, is a great wealth of Bible knowledge. Because those that don't have that don't know anything.

14) Jehovah's Witnesses don't "think the name "Jehovah" appeared in the original writings of the Greek Scriptures," We believe that they used the Hebrew form or the Greek from and not Jehovah. Jehovah is the English rendering.

15) We don't know about any "anonymous and somewhat secretive old men in Brooklyn". We know the governing body and other writers and workers in the departments.

16) Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe "that there is only one correct interpretation of a biblical text and that a publishing corporation knows the right one,", we believe that there is one correct interpretation and what we have today is the best that can be know, and the publishing company is the means of distributing it to everyone.

17)"If a biblical statement outright disagrees with what is taught in the Watchtower, you believe the Watchtower is correct,
". I would have to consider that on a case by case basis, because I am not aware of any biblical statements that outright disagrees with what is taught in the Watchtower.

18) Well, cleanliness is next go Godliness.

19)Jehovah's Witnesses do not " think demons choose to reside in jewelry, furniture, china, books or blue smurfs", they reside in blog writers.


20)Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that "death is much more important than birth,
", we believe as Eccles 7:1 says "A name is better than good oil, and the day of death than the day of one’s being born."

21) Jehovah's Witnesses do not feel that "all men with facial hair are unacceptable". We just feel that they are ugly and not attuned to the times. Yes, Jesus wore a beard and he also wore bell bottoms at Woodstock. Beards went out of style in the 1890. Get with it.

22) DOs & COs do not receive a salary. They are like Bethelites and have taken a vow of poverty. They get their expenses taken care of and insurance and other necessities, but that is not a salary. Salary means "fixed compensation paid regularly for services" and they are not compensated for their services. Get a clue.

23)JW's "reaction to someone wearing a cross" is pity that they would wear what they believe is a weapon used on their savior.

24)"Jehovah’s Witnessess are not an authoritarian cult,", because I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I am not a cult. I am a person.

25) The Watchtower is a magazine that has been printed since 1879.
And since the world today is filthy, we are glad to get our brains washed.

26)Field service does involve agriculture. How do you think that the coffee beans are grown?

27) JWs do not believe that "congregation elders can be 30 years old and baptized for six months" We believe that the scriptures set requirements.

28) Again you are wrong.
""All humans on earth except Jehovah’s Witnesses are destroyed!" will bring sadness to us, but that is why we are preaching to the people to help them survive so they do not have to die.

29)Is an another example of your stupidity.

30) I am male and don't have a problem with miniskirts.

31)I eat turkey on Thanksgiving and do not feel guilty at all.

32) I don't give presents, if others do, that is their choice.

33)When it is 95 degrees, I don't go out in service. Use your head, you know, that lump 3 feet above your ass.

34)Whatever.

35)"If you have a child that is 3 years old that sits quietly for hours at a time" Congratulations as the future with that child will be easier to teach that one about Jehovah and his ways.

36)I have no problem with R rated movies. I judge by content. But idiots like you do not even realize that Brook White is an LDS and has never seen an R rated movie.

37)I don't underline or write in my literature. I never comment from what is in them so where do you get that from.

38)Well, the "new testament" is an improper phrase. What is new about it? Since those were written in Greek, they are aptly named.

39)Thank you. They are going to make nice privys for us.

40)Thank you. Isn't it odd that people of other religions do not feel warm and fuzzy when they pass by their churches?

41)We don't spend days at baseball stadiums.

42)Is more of your stupidity.

43)Ditto

44)We don't refer to them as brother and sister unless they are older.

45)Friends and Seinfeld are stupid.
I don't watch them for that reason.

46)What else would they be? Sermon is a stupid word. Church is misused.

47)What is wrong with owning suits and doing labor? You should try it.

48)Well, people slamming doors is persecution.

49) We don't have Bible Studies without Bibles.

50)"If you're 25 years old and have never kissed anyone but your mom,", you are ugly and have BO.

51)Or Patterson or Wallkill. Not much is done in Brooklyn, You should know that.

52)more of your stupidity.

53)Got a problem with that?

54)Why would anyone have a Christmas tree. And I do have a christmas tree. 2 ambers at the top, with 3 yellows below and then a green and then a red.

55)No, I don't check the Watchtower Index for questions. I know the pattern of healthful words.

56)I don't talk about the kingdom because someone died.

57)There really is no such thing as Christian bookstores. But I go to bookstores that sell religious materials to do research.

58)Quickbuilds do not get people out of field service. IT is a good way to learn skills, meet people (girls) and get good food.

59)We give and receive many presents in December.

60)The term "governing body" is meaningless to me. It means something to you who worship them.


61)Pioneer is a form of full time preaching work.

62)Did you watch Dana Carvey and the Church Lady?

63)Gospel music makes me gag as it is pathetic.

64)The word apostate does not make me shiver but tells me that it is time to do batter with the miserable Pataks as the Klingons would say.

65)Well, Jesus did become king in 1914.

66)Well, 1975 is the end of 6000 years in human history as far as we know.

67)JWs do not believe those things.

68)Well, since Fred Franz and others at Bethel did not say that the end would come in 1975 because of the end of 6000 years, we do not believe that they indicated it would. They stated it could come in 1975 as it could in any years.

69)Well the NWT is the most accurate and least biased. Do you have anything better?

70)WE think that it takes as much time as Jehovah wants to take. Who is going to argue with him?

71)JWs do not believe that there was an organization from 1914-1919.
And those Bible students back then did not preach. That because Jehovah's organization because they started to preach in 1919. And what they knew back then was the best that they had, thus it ws the truth.

72)JWs do not believe that there was a "governing body" as exists today, prior to 1971. But there were older men (and apostles) in the first century that functioned as such, and between 1879 and 1970, there were older men instructing through the Watchtower.

73) We do not believe in new or old light. We believe that our understandings and the changing of them is the result of the seeing of Jehovah's purposes being fulfilled.

74) The Watchtower Society did not used to preach celebrating Christmas, it is something that they did. But then the JWs of today do not care what they did back then.

75)No, if someone says something negative about the Watchtower Society, we realize that person is ignorant and does not understand Jehovah's Witnesses (like yourself) and needs to open his/her mind to the truth.

Troy said...

Wow. You sure were right. Just look at grissom6471. When Jehovah's Witnesses see anything negative about the organization they get defensive and grissom is so defensive that he answered everyone with a dumbass answer. grissom does not really understand what being a witness is. Just for the record, grissom, field service records are more than just a statistical thing. You cannot be an elder or a ministerial servant or a pioneer unless you have a certain number of field service hours. The more time you spend in service, the more faithful you are.
Anyway, you cannot change the mind of someone who is so brainwashed. They are just like the Jim Jones people. They would die if the society asked them to. It is very sad.
grissom, can you prove the 1914 date without using the society's publications? Just from the Bible?

kimmy jo said...

I have been following this site and postings for some time now and find it funny that there are Jehovah's witnesses on here posting comments in defense of the organization! As far back as I can remember there was plenty of warning from the awake and watchtower about how bad the computer is and how the "evil" apostates and Satan are and of course will corrupt your minds threw this avenue, especially if you are on these type of sites that speak the TRUTH about that organization. So shame, shame on all you JWs with doubting hearts that bring you to these "dark" places to find something that makes sense. You are sooo bad! Oh, and OBVIOUSLY, you are not keeping yourself busy enough in the kingdom work! More service, more prayer needed.
I once too was were you are, and I do sincerely hope you find your way out of the vortex.

enigmatic said...

Beards went out of style in the 1890. Get with it.

Signed:

George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Jake Gylennhaal, Johnny Depp, Robb Zombie, Sean Penn, Mathew McConaughey, and Chris Robinson

grissom6471 said...

Troy:

Why would anyone every want to say anything negative about Jehovah's Organization?

>everyone with a dumbass answer.

Well, you read them.

>grissom does not really >understand what being a witness >is.

Oh, I understand it perfectly.
Being a Witness is what I do.

> Just for the record, grissom, >field service records are more >than just a statistical thing. >You cannot be an elder or a >ministerial servant or a pioneer >unless you have a certain number >of field service hours.

And that is a statistic. Being an elder or MS is not about field service hours, it is about taking the lead in the congregation. If you knew JWs, you would know that.
And that is not about having a certain number of hours.

> The more time you spend in >service, the more faithful you >are.

Not true.

The more time one spends in the ministry shows that one has the time to spend rather than other things. Not about faith. There are many faithful ones that get less than 5 hours a month, because that is all that they have available.

>Anyway, you cannot change the >mind of someone who is so >brainwashed.

The world is so dirty that we are glad to have our brains washed.

> They are just like the Jim Jones >people. They would die if the >society asked them to. It is very >sad.

Well, you know that is not true. We don't follow the Society. But there is nothing wrong with following the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses.



>grissom, can you prove the 1914 >date without using the society's >publications? Just from the Bible?

Of course not because AD dates do not appear in any bible. But the prophesy does.

1914 is based on the covenant to David that his seed would sit on Jehovah's throne in Jerusalem. That was paused in 607 when they king lost his sovereignty. As per Daniel 4, that pausing took 2520 years to 1914.

grissom6471 said...

Kimmy Jo:

Why wouldn't JWs be on here setting matters straight that liars like this blogger puts on here?

And the warnings in the Watchtower and such is because there are people who actually believe the stuff that bloggers put on here. It is a shame that there are Witnesses who would follow what this guy says and be stumbled because this guy worships the Watchtower.

Attacking apostates is the kingdom work.

grissom6471 said...

"George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Jake Gylennhaal, Johnny Depp, Robb Zombie, Sean Penn, Mathew McConaughey, and Chris Robinson" are all worldly people who are just being scruffy.

For the real reason

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080304221337AAfvBB1

Yeah I said it said...

best post i've read in a long time and right on the button.

i'm going through something really similar with a family member, just proving it's a cult many times over.

also, check out my friend's blog...his wife left him (a jw) and he enters the dating world with no real dating experience.

The Dating Doofus

erwinwm said...

LOL. grissom6471 is SOOO funny. All his answers are basically "Na-uh....youre stupid!". I dont even believe he is even a BAPTISED JW. He has not qouted the scriptures to defend himself and doesnt refer to God as Jehovah. MY ENITRE family is JW and YES they DO act this way for the most part. And this post is hilarious!

Warren Lawless said...

I just want to go on record- grisson6471 speaks for himself and not for Jehovah's Witnesses in general. Much of the information he presents is inaccurate, not well presented and generally negative. You will not get a correct view of what Jehovah's Witnesses are about from him.

grissom6471 said...

Warren Lawless.

All JWs speak for themselves as all JWs make decisions on how to act everyday.

I do not speak for any other Witness as I do not have the right to tell others how to live their lives (as stated in the 2007 DC)

>Much of the information he >presents is inaccurate, not well >presented and generally negative.

I present nothing negative.

Everything I present is fully accurate.


>You will not get a correct view >of what Jehovah's Witnesses are >about from him.

Then where does one find it?
Ohhhh, apostate blogs. yes.

grissom6471 said...

Erwin:

This site is not about scripture.
The purpose of the blog is Watchtower bashing which he describes as JW bashing, because he somehow knows that the Watchtower is not JWs, but still thinks others believe that. He does have it right in that the Watchtower Society is a printing company. But it is lost on him that the people who work there are Jehovah's Witnesses.

But why quote scripture, this site is not about scripture. So the reply to him is to show people how stupid it is to classify others, who make choices in their lives, as cults.

All complaints about JWS are because where certain individuals did, and it should not be presented as a negative reflection on the religion.

grissom6471 said...

There should be no reason for anyone to have to defend the faith. As there should be no reason for anyone to attack the faith.

If you have a problem, then go to the person and discuss it and work it out.

That is why it is stupid to say that we let people die by refusing blood. Work with it. Discuss it.

That is why it is stupid to complain about shunning disfellowshipped ones. Work with the person and help them, rather than complaining. If someone is doing something that you don't think is right, then discuss it with them.

erwinwm said...

grissom6471, so are you saying that you are NOT actually a Jehovah's witness?
I know because a Jehovah's witness would not say attacking apostates is kingdom work. Thats because as stated in John 13:34 "I am giving you a new commandment that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disiples, if you have love among yourselves." Feild service is kingdom work for Jesus, as stated in Matthew 9:35 "...set out on a tour of all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagoguges and preaching the good news of the kingdom..."

grissom6471 said...

Erwinn:

Get a clue. This is an apostate blog. Thus nothing that he posts can be taken seriously. Thus why post something serious in reply.

Is it that difficult to figure that out?

WE don't need to be quoting scripture to them because they place absolutely no value on the Bible. But we need to show them that they are wrong.

They are wrong in criticizing 1914.
When if they would open their mind and eyes, they would see that it is scriptural and historical.

They are wrong for placing focus on 1975 as if JWs as a relgion taught it would be the end, when certain individuals may have stated that but it was not an organizational teaching.

They are wrong for focusing on people and what they have said and done as if the religion is based on that.

Since I understand such things I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Those that do not understand such things can not be called such.

erwinwm said...

Yes it is an apostate blog, which means you shouldnt be on here.
2 Corinthians 6:14 "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?....'Therefore get out from among them, and seperate yourselves,' says Jehovah 'and quit touching the unclean thing'."
You should either consult your teacher about this or consider a different religion.

grissom6471 said...

Erwin,

We still must tell the truth among these apostate lies.

And we are not yoked, fellowshipped or touching these unclean things, anymore than the US forces are fellowshipping, yoking and touching Al Queda. Apostates are terrorist scum.

Nathan said...

Well a lot of things have already been said in this thread, but want to add my two coins here. I think it is quite obvious that the "You Are Probably One of Jehovah's Witnesses........" post is definitely not clinical. It is formal aggressive and semantically polemic and most of the points are simply not true. This is not a question of personal taste but of reality. So I don’t feel the need to answer every single point as grissom6471 did, but I appreciate his efforts.
I just want to comment on some statements from other bloggers.

a) Hi again troy. Another senseless post? To make you realize I am going to revert your argument: (revert troy on)When Jehovah’s Witnesses critics see anything positive about the organization they get offensive and start to throw mud without any logical and clear arguments.(revert troy off) It does not make any sense to do so, does it? Still this is exactly what you do! So please tell me why it would not be appropriate action if a Jehovah’s Witnesses replies to you, by correcting your errors.

As far as field service records are concerned you are partly right. I admit this is a critical point and it may sometimes appear as it is not a good idea. In this regard troy is right, when he says that “you cannot be an elder or a ministerial servant or a pioneer unless you have a certain number of field service hours”. But the point is that it is not always easy to see who would really qualify for such an appointment. While field service records can surly never be the sole criterion for such an appointment it is also true, that it sounds worse then it is. This “certain amount” is not more than the “average” JWs spends in the field service. So if one “takes the lead” in the congregation, one should be able to more or less get there. But of course, that is just technical drival.

b) Yo kimmy jo. Well grissom6471 alreay told you, but I want to put it another way, since I don’t really like the phrasing (“attacking apostates”): Nobody tells a JW that he is not allowed to visit blogs or websites like this one. Nobody tells a JW not to refute arguments or assertions of other people. If a JW discusses with anybody who is not a JW this is perfect field service, so he is certainly “busy enough in the kingdom work”. So if you want to ridicule people, please try to be a bit more funny and intellectual.

c) Hey erwinwm. Well the one(s) who started with the “you’re stupid” attitude was not grissom6471 as far as I remember. And as he told you, why would he need the scriptures to answer on statements that have nothing to do with the scriptures? I really think that you and some other here have their own stereotype of JWs in their heads and you react confused if a certain JW does not fit into it. Hey man don’t be so afraid of things you don’t know!

d) Yo Warren Lawless. Your post is not qualified because it contains absolutely zero factual depth. If anything is so inaccurate then post what it is in detail (e.g. I did it concerning the field service records) instead of such a global inaccuracy!

e) erwinwm the 2nd: Well it seems to me that you are a “shallow reader”. I admit that the phrasing of grissom6471 was not the best, but quoting John 13, 34 does not make sense. It simply does not fit, because this scripture is about Christians among themselves. Per definition apostates are not considered as Christians, so your quotation does not apply. There would be better texts for your opinion, but even these would be like shooting on a fly with a cannonball.

“Yes it is an apostate blog, which means you shouldnt be on here”. This statement is entirely wrong! No rational for that. Again your quotation does not apply. In every discussion about right or wrong concerning the Bible one gets in contact with “the world”. It does not matter if this is from door to door or in the internet. Please try to understand that, it is really not too difficult!

f) In general, if anyone has a formal valid argument against JWs with at least some logical semantics I would be happy to discuss is. But please quit this “you shouldn’t be here” etc. drivel which can’t be applied and which has absolute no substance.

Warren Lawless said...

Grissom6471 some statements you have made:

1. There should be no reason for anyone to have to defend the faith.

1 Pet. 3:15. states, “Always ready to make a defense before everyone that demands of you a reason for the hope in you, but doing do together with a mild temper and deep respect.”—1 Pet. 3:15.
It is proper to defend your faith. And on a side note, your comments show you have neither a mild temper or deep respect.

2. All humans on earth except Jehovah’s Witnesses are destroyed!" will bring sadness to us, but that is why we are preaching to the people to help them survive so they do not have to die.

We do not believe all humans on earth except Jehovah’s Witnesses will be destroyed. Go to the FAQ site on jw-media.org and this question is answered.

It states,
“Do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?

No. Many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah's Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. Humans look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. God has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours.—Matthew 7:1-5; John 5:22, 27.

http://www.jw-media.org/beliefs/beliefsfaq.htm


3. We still must tell the truth among these apostate lies.

We do not need to respond to apostates. We should follow the example of Jesus. When the Devil tried to get in an argument with him regarding the location of Moses’ body, it is written, “he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah rebuke you.”

4.They are wrong for placing focus on 1975 as if JWs as a relgion taught it would be the end, when certain individuals may have stated that but it was not an organizational teaching.

It wasn’t just certain individuals that believed 1975 would be the end; many witnesses believed it including many in Bethel. And this view did come out in the publications. And it has been acknowledged as an error.
*** w80 3/15 p. 17 par. 5 Choosing the Best Way of Life ***
5 In modern times such eagerness, commendable in itself, has led to attempts at setting dates for the desired liberation from the suffering and troubles that are the lot of persons throughout the earth. With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting—in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of man’s existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. There were statements made then, and thereafter, stressing that this was only a possibility. Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility. It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated.



*** g95 6/22 p. 9 Can You Trust God’s Promises? ***
Bible Students, known since 1931 as Jehovah’s Witnesses, also expected that the year 1925 would see the fulfillment of marvelous Bible prophecies. They surmised that at that time the earthly resurrection would begin, bringing back faithful men of old, such as Abraham, David, and Daniel. More recently, many Witnesses conjectured that events associated with the beginning of Christ’s Millennial Reign might start to take place in 1975. Their anticipation was based on the understanding that the seventh millennium of human history would begin then.
These erroneous views did not mean that God’s promises were wrong, that he had made a mistake. By no means! The mistakes or misconceptions, as in the case of first-century Christians, were due to a failure to heed Jesus’ caution, ‘You do not know the time.’ The wrong conclusions were due, not to malice or to unfaithfulness to Christ, but to a fervent desire to realize the fulfillment of God’s promises in their own time.

5. Quickbuilds do not get people out of field service. IT is a good way to learn skills, meet people (girls) and get good food.

Quickbuilds are not about learning skills, meeting girls or getting good food. Quickbuilds are about building a suitable place for people to gather in a community to worship their God, Jehovah.

6. "people who are not Jehovah’s Witnesses are capable of ethical and loving behavior", but it is meaningless if they are not serving Jehovah. And it is simply that which is common to humanity and not related to God.

It is never meaningless if one displays ethical and loving behavior. This is true, regardless if they are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses or not. And such behavior is related to God, for God is love and he has placed this quality in us to display to others.


7. You make statements such as, “If you're 25 years old and have never kissed anyone but your mom, you are ugly and have BO.” And, “Thank you. They are going to make nice privys for us.” And, “Jehovah's Witnesses do not feel that "all men with facial hair are unacceptable". We just feel that they are ugly”.

These are all negative and rude comments. They are not the views of Jehovah’s Witnesses so please don’t present them as such.


When you state you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and you say “we believe” or “Jehovah’s Witnesses believe” your comments reflect on us all and people make judgments that your views and statements are shared by ALL witnesses.

To summarize you state, “Since I understand such things I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses.” I sincerely believe you count yourself as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses but I would question if you are truly a witness of Jehovah. They can mean the same thing but they don’t necessarily have to.

erwinwm said...

Nathan, according to my father in law, who is an elder at the kingdom hall in alexandria, witnesses should not be involving themselves with online blogs. Quoting scripture is how they persuade because from that they are speaking from God's authority, not an individual's ranting.
Lastly, his rantings are not only misrepresenting the brothers and sisters but Jehovah himself.
And I'm sorry I must have missed the part where Jesus adds, "even though I'm Jewish love only applies to Christains. Hate all others and then maybe they'll see the light."

grissom6471 said...

Warren Lawless:

Dude, we are on the same side here.

I said: "There should be no reason for anyone to have to defend the faith." because no rational person should be attacking the faith of True Christians. And of course, I don't show respect to the traitorous vermin apostate scum.

2: Yes we do believe "all humans on earth except Jehovah’s Witnesses will be destroyed".

What you quoted about people in the past being resurrected is irrelevant. They are not on earth.

What you quoted from jw-media is just good PR. Of course they won't say that because people are offended by that. Yes, judgment is in Jesus' hands as he does the separating work. But those who have taken a stand against him, he has no use for.

3) You say "We do not need to respond to apostates", Yeah, but it is fun. Someone has to be the beacon out there for the truth, because they think that their message will defeat us. We have to show them that they are wrong.

4)You said "many witnesses believed it including many in Bethel" concerning 1975. So what of it? Our religion is not based on what 'many witnesses believed it including many in Bethel'.

Your quote from the Choosing book was just more PR because many Witnesses stopped because of that.
That was an unnecessary attempt at convincing people.

The mistake was not in dates and years, but in believing that the end of 6000 years of human history was to mean something. Rather, 6000 years after the sin would make more sense, for the kingdom.

5) You need to lighten up, dude.

6) Matt 7:21 "Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will."

So it is the doing of God's will, and only Jehovah's Witnesses are doing that.

7) "negative and rude comments". Thank you. My comments are true. This is an apostate blog and it does not deserve anything better.

Why don't you get to know me in my natural environment rather here among the wolves. When among the wolves,I am not going to be a sheep.

So I would suggest you open your mind, which is what I suggest to the apostates.

grissom6471 said...

Erwin:

"Accoring to a congregational elder at the kingdom hall"

Is he a master over our faith? 2 Cor 1:24

" witnesses should not be involving themselves with online blogs. "

Where are Witnesses involving ourselves in online blogs. This is not a Witness blog. We are commenting on how wrong he is.


The problem with these things is that now, they got the Witnesses disagreeing with each others.

The fight is not over whether Witnesses can be defending the faith here or anywhere. We should be united against the evil out there.

Nathan said...

Ad warren lawless) That was what I was talking about. Some clear points you made, some of which were definitely right (others which would need further discussion). This is how discussion should be done. Thanks!

Ad erwinwm) Well what’s according to your father in law does not matter, whether he is an elder or not. It does only present his own thinking, not the “official teaching”. If he is not mature enough to understand the reasoning, it is his own problem. Again, as I told you in my last posting there is no “command” not to involve in online blogs. This would of course be nonsense.

As I already told you. It is not always necessary to quote the scriptures. If the matter of discussion has nothing to do with the scriptures then quoting the scriptures simply does not make sense. Jesus himself did not always quote the scriptures. For example, when the Pharisees asked him if it is allowed to pay taxes, he did not quote the scriptures, because there was no need for it. Instead he presented a simple logical argument.

Your last sentence shows that you lack understanding. I didn’t say anything comparable to your statement. I only told you, that the scripture you quoted does not apply. I also told you why. So please read carefully and reconsider your reasoning. Further more; challenging those who tell lies or only make assertions on purpose has nothing to do with hating them. Think about, what Jesus did with those selling in the temple.

You can’t make it so easy for yourself. You too have to stick to logical arguments. Otherwise they are not valid!

Warren Lawless said...

Things that are on the official websites and in printed publications are just good PR????????? So they are just there to mislead people into thinking one thing while we really believe another??????? Do you seriously believe that? If you do I don't know how to further respond to your comments. Nor do I feel I would really like to.

Matthew said...

JW's, destroying one family at a time!

Nathan said...

Hey grissom6471! It is not easy to get some people here to think, I know. But this is the reason why we have to be very careful and accurate when we present arguments. And as far as your point 2 is concerned I have to tell you that Warren Lawless is right and you are wrong, because your information is not really accurate.

JWs do NOT believe that all other people will be destroyed! The Bible does NOT tell us that only JWs will survive! JWs do NOT teach that! It is NOT an “official teaching” that only JWs will survive. And this is not only PR. If we take the Bible serious, and JWs do so, then we know that the Bible does NOT say that. Many other people will likely survive too! Many people living today! God is going to judge, not humans! That is what the Bible tells us. So it is NOT accurate to say that only JWs will survive.

My personal opinion is that the attitude of a person is what counts. So there will be people who are no JWs who will survive and there will be some JWs who will not survive. Only being part of the “true religion” means nothing, if one does not really believe. So if you are baptized but, just believe with your mouth but not with your heart Jehovah will know and he will judge such persons. On the other hand, if your heart is ok, but for example you didn’t hear about JWs (think of China for example), it would make no sense for God to kill you and resurrect you afterwards.

grissom6471 said...

Yes, Nathan, the Bible does tell us that only JWs will survive.

Rev 7 says that a great crowd that has washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb will come out of the great trib. If that applies to non-JWs then why are we preaching? What would the point be?

What he was saying is that there may be ones not baptized as JWs who survive, but ... but... they still have to wash their robes and make them white in the blood of the lamb, which translates to being one of Jehovah's Witnesses though not baptized.

However, The fact is that Jehovah deals with Jesus and those in the new covenant, and those who survive must also deal with those as that is washing the robes means.

But what matters is that all apostates will not survive.

Warren Lawless said...

Grissom6471:
please do not try and put words in my mouth by leaving a msg,"What he was saying is that there may be ones not baptized as JWs who survive, but ... but... they still have to wash their robes and make them white in the blood of the lamb, which translates to being one of Jehovah's Witnesses though not baptized."
That is not what I am saying. Nathan more accuratly summerized what I meant. And he is correct in stating "the Bible does not tell us that only JWs will survive."
Here is a situation---- A person is severly mentally handicapped and is in coma. Will they be judged unworthy to enter into paradise because they were never baptized? Obviously not! And if everyone is so spirtually strong in order to survive, when the Devil is let loose at the end of the 1000 years, why will there be many that turn from God at that time and follow the Devil. And why is there examples in the Bible when God was willing to save those that were not his chosen people. For example at Sodom, God said if there were 10 rightous people he would have saved the city. These rightous people would not have been God's people or God would have initially sent messengers to save them. As well, if Abraham had found those 10 people God would have saved the entire city on account of those 10 people. God's main quality is Love, not Justice. And he displays this love through mercy. We go from door to door to give people the opputunity to display if they have a sheeplike personality or a goat-like personality. But they will only be judged as Goats or Sheep in the final judgement. God does not desire any to be destroyed.

Matthew said...

God doesn't desire to destroy, but the JW's certainly do. What a worthless group of people.

Mark Andrews said...

Grissom - What a load of bollocks! You don't half talk some crap sunshine lol. Thanks for a good laugh though.

To the OP your rather lenghy post was just brilliant and absolutely spot on too.

An apostate and proud of it too.


Mark (Cornwall)