Watch Tower 1904 February 15 pp.52-53 “Can the Ethiopian change his skin?”
“What the Ethiopian cannot do for himself God could readily do for him. The difference between the races of men and the differences between their languages have long been arguments against the solidarity of the human family. The doctrine of restitution has also raised the question. How could all men be brought to perfection and which color of skin was the original? The answer is now provided. God can change the Ethiopian's skin in his own due time. Prof. H. A. Edwards, Supt. of Schools in Slater, Mo., has written for the public press an elaborate description of how Julius Jackson, of New Frankfurt, Mo., a negro boy of nine years, began to grow white in September, 1901, and is now fully nine-tenths white. He assures us that this is no whitish skin disease; but that the new white skin is as healthy as that of any white boy, and that the changed boy has never been sick and never has taken medicines.”
Watchtower July 15 1902 The Negro Not A Beast pp. 215-216. “While it is true that the white race exhibits some qualities of superiority over any other, we are to remember that there are wide differences in the same Caucasian (Semitic and Aryan) family; and also we should remember that some of the qualities which have given this branch of the human family its preeminence in the world are not such as can be pointed to as in all respects admirable….The secret of the greater intelligence and aptitude of the Caucasian undoubtedly in great measure is to be attributed to the commingling of blood amongst its various branches; and this was evidently forced in large measure by circumstances under divine control.”
Thus Jesus Christ himself (who also happens to be white) appointed this white supremacist organization in 1919 over all his belongings (including some, in Russel's opinion, inferior negroes).
Yeah, right.....
Before Sam Herd, no African American has served on the GB... I guess it took about 100 years for the Governing Body to realize that African Americans really are equal to whites...
Yes, I realize that this was the general attitude toward minorities back then. However, that begs the question as to why God's Chosen Ones didn't have a different attitude than that of "Christendom". Had Charles Russell made a comment about "how there is neither Jew nor Greek" (or in the modern sense, 'their is neither black nor white'), amongst the brethren, then that would have been something to look back on with pride. It wouldn't have been a popular statement to make, but hey-----the founder of Christianity made all kinds of unpopular statements.
36 comments:
The reason that we believe that Jesus chose the Bible Students back then from 1914-1918 & 1919, is not because of what they did but because everyone else failed.
He chose them because in 1919 they had the assembly in Cedar Point to start the preaching Work to fulfill his prophesy that the good news of the kingdom would be preached as Matt 24:14 said.
No one else did that.
Hey Ronde, thats like saying I went to school and got a prize for saying 5+5=9. I wasnt right but I was the nearest!
At the time the so called 'faithful and discreet slave' were chosen, they still believed Charles T Russell was the 'Slave', so they would have denied it had they been asked!
"He chose them because in 1919 they had the assembly in Cedar Point to start the preaching Work to fulfill his prophesy that the good news of the kingdom would be preached as Matt 24:14 said.
No one else did that."
It is incredible to me that anyone of any intelligence would believe this! Recently, the Watchtower has been praising itself for all the wonderful things it did in 1918- 1919. Let me put this bluntly: They're lying about their history.
The Watchtower and its Bible Students weren't expecting - or looking for - Christ's presence in 1914 - 1919. Why? Because they believed and taught that Christ's Second Presence began in 1874! You can prove this to yourself by reading page 631 in their green "Jehovah's Witnesses
- Proclaimers of God's Kingdom" book - in which it outlines the reasons why the Society picked 1874"that evidently the Lord had returned in that year and was visibly present".
If you have a copy of the "Harp of God" - published by the Watchtower Society in 3,960,000copies copyright 1921 - you can turn to page 251 and read about 1874 also.
What does this tell us? That like the "foolish virgins" of Jesus' parable (Matt. 25)
THEY BLEW IT! They missed the event! They got the date wrong!
They are now bragging about themselves and praising themselves for their achievements -based on a fraud, because they screwed up their own chronology! When they lie about things like this,who are they imitating?
Well, the "Is the Bible Really the Word of God" reminds us that many ancient tyrants used to GLORIFY themselves and lie about their own achievements (pg.59) On the other hand, it says that Bible writers honestly admitted their own shortcomings (pg 69) and "They did not try to gloss over 'whitewash' these matters." The book tells us that "humility and honesty usually go hand in hand" and that Christian Bible writers did not try to portray themselves as "heroes".
Who do you think the Watchtower Society is really imitating here by praising themselves?
If you judge them by their own correct history, they and their authority are
founded on a fraud.
Hey Steve:
What's your point?
My point is that there are 7 million Jehovah's Witnesses in 230 lands in 101,000 congregations serving Jehovah and preaching the kingdom.
That is proof that what was started in 1919 was approved by Jesus.
"It is incredible to me that anyone of any intelligence would believe this!"
Well, it is true.
There was an assembly in Cedar Point in 1919 that said to advertise, the king and the kingdom.
"Because they believed and taught that Christ's Second Presence began in 1874!"
Jesus' second presence did begin in 1874 as that is when Jesus starting looking prior to the end of the gentile times, but 1914 was the end of the gentile times marking the start of the kingdom.
1874 was not from the gentile times but from what they thought was the end of 6000 years.
But none of that was important to Jesus. What was important to Jesus was that they were the ones who were faithful and discreet and serving him and thus they did something with his talents.
7 million preachers - Is anyone else claiming that?
What have any of you done?
And "Who do you think the Watchtower Society is really imitating here by praising themselves?"
The Watchtower Society is the printing facility that the Bible students/Jehovah's Witnesses used to print the literature. They have done a good job. That literature has helped millions learn the Bible.
Again, what have you done? What has anyone else done?
And as to that point of before Sam Herd, no black (African American is not a Christian term) has served on the Governing body; were there any blacks that were anointed prior to him that were qualified to serve?
Names?
Anyone care to address the racism in the past publications or are you missing the point AGAIN.
How do todays JW's address these pagan, unloving and unGodly parts of their past?????
IGNORE THEM and HOPE they GO AWAY!
Racism in the past publications? What is there to address? Commenting on that is as stupid as addressing slavery in the USA's past. What was done by the people back then has no bearing on the people today.
I live in the south and do not have slaves. So how is that a bearing on us today?
How is what was written in the publications in the past have any bearing on JWs today? We have our own faith. Our faith does not hinge on Russell or Rutherford.
Get with the times.
What is there to address? They are not in our past as I was not alive when those things were written? Were you?
And if you were a JWs, how do you address it? Stop serving Jehovah God with his people? Stupid course of action don't you think?
@ Ronde - 7 million dubs worldwide? Big deal. Do some research, try wikipedia, look at the growth of many, many, many other Christian religions. Growth far surpassing that of the dubs.
"Oh, but they don't preach the truth!" is how dubs answer.
Well, read your Bible from Matthew to Jude and you tell me where the gospel of the kingdom includes expressions like "paradise on earth" or "warning message" or "faithful and discreet slave class" or any mention of dates/times/seasons.
Put down your watchtower, pick up your Bible and read.
"7 million dubs worldwide? Big deal."
I did not say that.
I said that there are 7 million Witnesses of Jehovah preachings. The only dub is in Washington DC.
" Do some research, try wikipedia, look at the growth of many, many, many other Christian religions. Growth far surpassing that of the dubs."
But they are not all one religion. Yes there are many many false religions in the world and they grow. But the true ones is doing what Matt 24:14 said.
"Well, read your Bible from Matthew to Jude and you tell me where the gospel of the kingdom includes expressions like "paradise on earth" or "warning message" or "faithful and discreet slave class" or any mention of dates/times/seasons."
Why Just there? What about Rev 21:3,4? New Heavens and new EARTH.
Isaiah and Peter said that too.
Exekiel spoke of a warning message.
So did Paul. Jesus spoke of the FDS class. But that is not relevant. What is relevant is that 7 million have faith in the Bible and do something with it.
That is something you ought to do.
I suggest that you listen to the 2008 District convention or others to give you some faith.
I am associated with the Bible Students, not the Jehovah's Witnesses. Brother Russell, of course, was a Bible Student, and was never associated with the Jehovah's Witneses organization, nor did he believe in their teachings.
However, what I wanted to say is that Russell was far ahead of most of the contemporaries of his day. A true researcher should examine all a person states and not just highlight a few things and then classify a person a "white supremacist" as a result. Even the quote given was not meant to be an exaltation of the white race over other races, as the next sentence shows:
[[Indeed we can not but wonder whether if the Gospel had been sent into Asia instead of into Europe it might not have found amongst the people of India a soil much more naturally adapted to the development of the peaceable fruits of righteousness.]]
Brother Russell was far ahead of most preachers of his day in preaching against what we today would call "racial discrimination." One should study the entire article, as well as what Russell stated as whole on the subject, and not take things he said out of context. Of course, one can find what one is looking for any written material. If one is looking for something with the idea to prove that Russell was "white supremacist," that is what he will find. Nevertheless, The entire article is online at:
http://agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/r3042.htm
It is implied that Brother Russell made no reference to Galatian 3:28, 29. However, this misrepresents Russell, since in that same article he stated:
[[We have already quoted from the Apostle Paul that all nations are mentioned as of one blood; and this again borne out by his statement that those who accept Christ, whether Jew or Gentile, barbarian or Scythian, bond or free, are "all one in Christ Jesus." -- Gal. 3:28; Col. 3:11.
The Ethiopian eunuch to whom Philip was sent with the messages of salvation was unquestionably a black man--"Can the Ethiopian change his skin?" (Jer. 13:23; Acts 8:27.) We find no suggestion on Philip's part that this Ethiopian was not a man, but a beast; but quite to the contrary, he was ready to preach the Gospel to him and to accept him as a brother in Christ upon his confession of faith.]]
And notice how Russell used Galatians 3:28,29 in an article for the Bible Students Monthly:
[[Is it possible for the negro to be accepted and made part of this class in glory? The Apostle answers the question in these words, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, neither bond nor free, neither male nor female, for ye are all one in Christ Jesus; and if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's Seed and heirs according to the promise." (Gal. 3:28, 29) This Seed is to be the instrument through which the blessing is to flow to all the nations of earth, and God has declared that He is selecting these out of "every tongue and people and nation, and hath made us unto God, Kings and Priests, and we shall reign on the earth." Rev. 5:9, 10]]
-- Bible Students Monthly, Volume 3, Number 14, "The Negro Question."
This entire article was reprinted in Harvest Gleanings Volume I. It is online in a PDF (as well as OLB format) at:
http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/contents/bsllinks/Russell.htm
You may have to wait several minutes for the PDF to download. To find the article, use "Find" to search for "The Negro Question"
The article quoted from, "The Negro Question," like the article quoted from in the Watch Tower of 1902, was written to refute a doctrine that was widely accepted in the South amonsgt white Protestant preachers of many different churches. I grew up in the South, and the same ideas were very prevalent back in the latter part of the 1950s. The teaching was that black people are not humans, but beasts, and the black did not possess a soul.
To quote part of what Russell said, and even placing that quote in a context to make it appear almost the opposite of what he saying, is a gross misrepresentation of Russell.
Note further the article quoted from the Watch Tower of 1902, however, Russell stated regarding the certain false claims that was being made that God was favoring the white race and that the black race was a race of degenerates, and that it was because of the intermingling between the favored white race and the allegedly cursed black race that the black race had become more intelligent, etc.:
[[It is not true that divine favor has gone with the whites exclusively, and against the blacks and other colored races; civilizing the whites and barbarizing the others. If civilization and barbarity are to be the tests entirely, we have only to take in a wide scope of history to see the fallacy of the view presented. Eighteen centuries ago the white peoples of Europe, with their straight silky hair, were savages, idolaters, barbarians - far more degraded than were the millions of India and the millions of China at the same time. This disproves this theory at a glance.
Furthermore, the Children of Israel, who for eighteen centuries before that had been the favored people of God, and respecting whom it was written, "You only have I known (recognized) of all the families of the earth," are not a fair skinned and straight and silky haired people. Their hair is quite kinky, and their skin is quite swarthy, altho they also are a part of the Caucasian race. Furthermore, we notice in the case of that nation that whereas they were subjects of divine favor for eighteen hundred years, and then became objects of divine disfavor for a similar period, it was not because of their having intermarried with blacks, but for a very different reason -- because of their rejection of Messiah. This proves that alienation from God which constitutes the heathen "strangers, aliens and foreigners," was not because of intermarriage with the blacks.
If those who favor this theory should persist in saying that all who are strangers from God and from the commonwealth of Israel, were rejected and utterly cast off because of impurity of blood through negro admixture, let us reflect further that these Gentile nations include our own forefathers, the barbarians of Europe. And let us further reflect that however cast off they were, and from whatever reason they were cast off, their debt, their penalty, was paid by the great ransom sacrifice which our Lord Jesus gave -- not for the Jews only, but for the Gentiles also, by which we, who were once aliens and strangers and foreigners, have been brought nigh to God, and granted the privilege of becoming his sons.]]
In that same article, Russell several times denounced the exaltation of the white race over the black race.
Regarding the idea that the black race was not human, but a beast, Russell stated:
[[In our opinion there are no such proofs, but strong testimony of the Scriptures to the contrary. Science has proven that somehow the Creator has fixed boundaries and limitations which hinder the different species from intermingling. Even where the species closely resemble each other in many respects, as for instance, the horse and donkey, the dog and the cat, a cross-breed with powers of propagation cannot be secured. This law, which it is well known obtains throughout the animal kingdom, should in all reason be applicable to mankind; and hence, if whites and negroes were of different species they could not, by commingling, produce offspring capable of propagation. Briefly stated, this is the scientific side of the question, which cannot be set aside by any amount of sophistry or theorizing. It will stand as a fact after the theorizing is dead. From the Scriptural standpoint the answer is equally specific. Note the Apostle's words, "God that made the world and all things therein...hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth,"--Acts 17:24-28.
***
The Scriptural evidences are wholly against the theory mentioned in the question. Take, for instance, the fact that Moses married a negress, and had children by her. According to the theory we are criticising this would have been an unpardonable sin in God's sight, a carnal union between a man and a beast. According to this theory Moses would have been rejected utterly from divine favor. But what do we find? Quite to the contrary. It was after this marriage that God chose Moses to be his representative and the leader of his people out of Egyptian bondage. Moreover, it was when Moses' brother Aaron and his sister Miriam, especially the latter, upbraided him for his marriage to a negress, that the Lord defended him in the matter, and smote Miriam with the plague of leprosy as a punishment for her improper conduct and language respecting this subject. (See the account, Num. 12.) Zipporah was an Ethiopian, described in the Hebrew text as a Cushite. Ebed melech, also an Ethiopian, was one of King Zedekiah's household, and be it noted that he was both thoughtful and zealous for the Lord's prophet, Jeremiah, and was the commander of the thirty men who delivered him from prison (Jer. 38:7-12.) Hence the argument of those who claim that the negro is devoid of organizing intelligence or ability, except as he may have an admixture of white blood, is shown to be fallacious.]]
No, Brother Russell was in no wise a "white supremacist." Indeed, he was among the very few at that time who spoke out against the idea of the prevelant ideas that white were superior, etc.
Please note that I am not here to offer any suggestion that there was an organization like the JWs in Brother Russell's day, for there was no such organization then. Russell did not believe in such an organization, nor do I. After Russell died, Rutherford used the Watch Tower to form a new religious organization, and, in order to distinguish his new organization from the Bible Students who refused to go along with his ideas, he named his organization "Jehovah's Witnesses."
Christian love,
Ronald
"But none of that was important to Jesus. What was important to Jesus was that they were the ones who were faithful and discreet and serving him and thus they did something with his talents."
ronde, now you are telling us that you know what is important to Jesus? Are you kidding me! I am not surpised though because you are just repeating Watchtower rhetoric. The Watchtower gives you scriptures and then tells you what those scriptures mean. Scriptures are given and twisted to support their own ideology. The Bible was written for mankind to read and understand. It was not written for a organization to tell us what the scriptures mean and then changes the meanings when their doctrines fail or when they need its members to do something. Get real, for goodness sakes.
History is important. That is why we study history in schools and universities. Our history defines us. The Watchtower's history cannot be overlooked. It defines who they are today. We cannot simple say "well, that was then and this is now." Doesn't work that way.
Many may claim to be preach the "Good News" of God's Kingdom, but preach instead a message of eternal doom rather the glad tidings for all people. While the JWs are not as bad as many of the churches who teach eternal misery for billions of the human race as "Gospel/Good News", they do preach the bad tidings of eternal destruction for billions of men, women and children who have never been englightened and are still blinded by Satan.
Christian love,
Ronald
'My point is that there are 7 million Jehovah's Witnesses in 230 lands in 101,000 congregations serving Jehovah and preaching the kingdom.'
It doesnt matter what they are doing now.. Jesus would NEVER have chosen them in 1919. They were just the same as other religions. They were doing things back then they now condemn other religions for doing. So why on earth would Jesus have chosen them??
And what Kingdom are they preaching? The one that was set up in 1914? They get that date from a convoluted set of mathematical data pulled from all over the Bible and the JWs are the ONLY ones to sat 607bc was the start date for this. If 607 is wrong, your whole message is wrong!
Ask people what they know about Jehovah's Witnesses. They will say about Christmas, birthdays, blood. No one has ever said to me..They preach the Good News of God's Kingdom. Because most JWs just peddle the mags and tracts.
And dont ask me what am I doing. I was a Watchtower slave for nearly 40 years and for 30 of those never missed a month in field service, pushing the books of a rich publishing corporation. what a waste!
A witness told me the other day that "Jesus said he'd leave us a faithful and discreet slave". I asked where he said that and was told Matthew 24.
It is so sad that Witnesses are unable to read what the words printed in the Bible say.
Jesus did not say he would leave a faithful and discreet slave. He asked a rhetorical question about who this slave (singular not a class) would be.
Jesus, however, did say he would leave a helper. The Holy Spirit.
Jehovah's Witnesses are actively taught at their meetings, conventions and in the publications that the Holy Spirit is only really available to the 'anointed', or faithful slave. If the non-anointed want to understand the Bible and serve God with approval, they must do it through or with this faithful slave class.
This is not even hinted at anywhere in the Gospels, in Acts or any of the subsequent letters sent to the Christians in the 1st century.
There are only 4 components of TRUE worship of God. Get a pen, write them down - I realise it's simple, but it may blow your cerebral cortex;
You
Jesus
Holy Spirit
God
ronde,
You said:
"Racism in the past publications? What is there to address? Commenting on that is as stupid as addressing slavery in the USA's past."
BUT THE US DOES NOT CLAIM TO REPRESENT THE TRUE GOD. THEY DO NOT USE HIS PRESOUS NAME TO MISLEAD MILLIONS WITH LIES AND DECEPTION.
You asked:
"And if you were a JWs, how do you address it? Stop serving Jehovah God with his people? Stupid course of action don't you think?"
My answer:
It is simple. Get over my pride, and get the hell out of the Watchtower...because I can see by measure of their own standards that they are not who they claim and they are a false religious organization. It cannot be denied.
The TRUTH does hurt, but that's your pride and that's an ungodly trait, now isn't it.
answering that post will also answer a previous question made by the apostate.
why did C.T. Russell have to seperate from all religous organizations to revive Scriptural truths?
Pay attention you might learn something.
in Ephesians 4:5 Paul said:
One Lord, One Faith.
There was only one Christian faith, but today there a lot of Religions that claim to be christian, despite they teach conflicting doctrines and even some of them agree with homosexuality. the question is why?
the answer to that question will help you understand why the witnesses today are really the only true organization.
The christian Congregation was founded by Jesus christ. Jesus knew Satan will try to corrupt his followers. Pay attention.
Jesus gave an illustration in Matthew 13 and Jesus explained it himself, let me copy and paste the illustration and jesus explanation.
we can take your bible to follow I will copy and paste from the new world translation, the english is very easy to follow, but read it using your own bible.
from the new world Translation
Another illustration he set before them, saying: “The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. 25 While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left. 26 When the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also. 27 So the slaves of the householder came up and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ They said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ 29 He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, YOU uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’”
this illustration talks about the great Apostasy.
what was the explanation?
Jesus himself explained.
36 Then after dismissing the crowds he went into the house. And his disciples came to him and said: “Explain to us the illustration of the weeds in the field.” 37 In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; 38 the field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, 39 and the enemy that sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. 40 Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. 41 The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be. 43 At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him that has ears listen.
not time to go in all the details about that illustration
one remark, according to Jesus among the true christians satan will oversowed weeds, and it will be very difficult to identify the true christians or son of the kingdom.
he said among you, satan will sow weed. the apostles also talks about the great apostasy.
According to ACTs 20:29, 30
From within the true congregation, men would rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.
2 Peter 2: 1, 3
Peter said, there will be false teachers among you.
we can read this from
The New Encyclopædia Britannica: “From the middle of the 2nd century AD Christians who had some training in Greek philosophy began to feel the need to express their faith in its terms, both for their own intellectual satisfaction and in order to convert educated pagans.” Once philosophically minded persons became Christians, it did not take long for Greek philosophy and “Christianity” to become inseparably linked.
As a result of this union, pagan doctrines such as the Trinity and the immortality of the soul seeped into tainted Christianity. These teachings, however, go back much farther than the Greek philosophers. The Greeks actually acquired them from older cultures, for there is evidence of such teachings in ancient Egyptian and Babylonian religions.
there are a lot to say on this subject but time is precious,
let's just say this
so the false was mix with the true
until the time of the end.
According to Jesus in the time of the end the true christians will be separate from the false.
and this is where Russell came in.
Russell was studying the bible and trying to find the truth.
meaning he had a lot of false informations he had to get rid off.
Remember the false was mix with the truth. Russell was very humble man what he found out that he was in error he accepted to make the changes, no wonder Jehovah used him to start the process of Reestablishing his truth.
Russell did not create a new Religion He start to Reestablish something that was already existed in the apostles time.
Little by little God through the only spirit has helped the bible students at that time to find the real truth about him.
even Daniel say in Daniel 12:4
in the time of the end true knowledge about God will become abundant.
little by little the bible students had reestablish the true about God, and today the true about God is being preached in all the Earth. Like JESUS PROPHESIED IN MATTHEW 24:14.
The true organization is Jehovah witnesses.
Members of the Governing Body are not inspired Jehovah reveal the truth to them progressively.
Proverbs 4:18 show that the light become brighter and brighter as the end getting near.
at least they are humble enough to when there is a need to make a change contrary to other religions who have being teaching false doctrines for years and refused to change.
good luck
Defender, it's amazingly simple.
Put down your Watchtower, pick up a Bible, if you have one.
Open it at Acts. That's the book just after John.
Read verse 7 of chapter 1.
Now, ask yourself this question;
"Do the words of Daniel in Chapter 12 of the book bearing his name in any way, shape or form overwrite Jesus words in Acts 1:7?"
The Bible speaks truth. Jesus speaks truth. He said that it does not belong to humans on earth to know the appointed times of His father Jehovah.
Jesus had a pretty good insight into the hearts and personalities of humans. So, he repeatedly warned them against being misled by people who claimed to have knowledge of Jehovah's appointed times.
One of those warnings is recorded in Luke 21. So, if you still have your Bible to hand, open it there. Luke is the book just before John.
Read verse 8 very carefully.
Try and think independently for a moment. What could Jesus have meant when he said "He said: “Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’ Do not go after them."
Think about it.
I did. I thought about it and realised that if Jesus said humans wouldn't be able to know the appointed times of his Father and if a human was to come to me and say they KNEW the appointed time of his Father I wasn't to be misled by them, then I shouldn't be misled by them.
But I understood too that I would need to verify my thinking with that of the WTS. So I fired up the old WT CD Rom and looked for what the Society had to say about Luke 21:8.
Please, put down your Bible, go to your Society WT CD Rom or index. Start with the index ending in the year 2007, the latest index. Look up Luke 21:8.
Find anything? No? Ok, now try the older indexes.
ONE article. ONE article.
Please read that article and decide for yourself to apply the fine counsel from the FDS contained therein.
Hey Passwordprotected
I see you are a little confuse with the expression the time of the end.
Acts 1:7 we cannot know when the end will come, like Jesus said
Matthew 24:36
Concerning that day and hour nobody knows.
Password I wasn't talking about the end of the world,
but the question is how long will the time of end last?
According to the bible there is a difference with the time of the end and the day of the end itself.
Daniel 12:4 said
in the time of the end true knowledge will become abundant
meaning the time of the end also refers to as the last days will not last one day.
Jesus also taught the same thing.
Jesus compare his presence to Noah days
take your bible and read
Matthew 24:37-39
Let me copy and paste for you.
37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be
The days of Noah did not last one day, it took years for Noah to build the ark and preached about the coming flood.
this scripture show that the coming of Jesus will not last only one day, it will last years before Jesus destroyed the wicked.
but as to the day and hour of the destruction nobody knows. Acts 1:7.
and I wasn't talking about that.
but there is a warning in what Jesus said. Many were not paying attention to Noah, like today many are not paying attention to the witnesses about the time we are living now.
what about Luke 21:8?
it doesn't apply to the witnesses password, how do we know that?
let me copy and paste for you.
And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
do you know any Jehovah witnesses that told you before I am the christ?
here Jesus is talking about false christs, and there have been some false christs like Jesus say.
you probably didn't know how to use the cd rom
Luke 21:8 say the same as Matthew 24:5
if you had search for Matthew 24:5 you would find some good explanations let me for example copy and paste for you some informations on a watchtower articles.
As Jesus foretold, since 1914 C.E. there have been impostors that have represented themselves as fulfilling a Messianic role, saying, in effect, “I am the Christ.” (Matt. 24:4, 5; Mark 13:5, 6) Some of these have been religious leaders, such as the man who, in the 1930’s, styled himself “Father Divine” and was called “King of kings and Lord of lords.” Others have been politicians—for example, Nkrumah, a former ruler of Ghana, who rephrased the words of Jesus Christ and urged his people: “Seek ye first the political kingdom.” Even Russian Communism has claimed that it would bring the Messianic blessing of “Paradise” to its people.
Like Jesus said there have been false christs or false messiah.
I am done with that subject, I will see again on a different subject.
Before I copy and paste Acts 1:7
let me tell you I read Luke 21:8
I forgot password
the end is the time when Jesus will make his presence manifest to all
2 thessalonians 1:6-9 nobody knows when that day and hour but it will come soon
and the time of the end
is the period of the time refers to as the last days, during this time all bible prophecies regarding the last days will be fulfilled
including the prophecy found in Matthew 24:14
This good news of the kingdom will be preached for a witness to all the nations and then the end will come.
Good luck
Ronald, while you have good points but you are incorrect on a few things.
"Brother Russell, of course, was a Bible Student, and was never associated with the Jehovah's Witneses organization, nor did he believe in their teachings."
That is like stating that George Washington was not an American and not associated with the constitution or believe in it. George Washington did not start the USA anymore than Russell started the Jehovah's Witnesses, but GW believed the principles of the USA just as Russell believed the principles of the Jehovah's Witnesses, it was just not his time to be mature in the faith as we are today.
You stated: "Please note that I am not here to offer any suggestion that there was an organization like the JWs in Brother Russell's day, for there was no such organization then."
Well, yes there was. He was a pastor. He has congregations. Thus he had an organization.
A congregation is an organized group of worshippers.
"Russell did not believe in such an organization, nor do I."
Yes he did and yes you do.
There just were not 7 million people go join him in worship at the time, but if God had not taken him in 1916 he would have done more.
"After Russell died, Rutherford used the Watch Tower to form a new religious organization,"
No, Rutherford continued Russell's writing and printing efforts to preach the kingdom.
"and, in order to distinguish his new organization from the Bible Students who refused to go along with his ideas, he named his organization "Jehovah's Witnesses."""
Rutherford went to the Bible to get a Biblical name.
"ronde, now you are telling us that you know what is important to Jesus?"
Yes, I am.
I know what is important to Jesus as it was in the Bible by his own words. John 3:16 - having faith in him as God's son, not God.
Matt 24:14. preaching his kingdom. and many more.
" Are you kidding me! I am not surpised though because you are just repeating Watchtower rhetoric."
I have no idea what the Watchtower rhetoric is as I don't read it."
"The Bible was written for mankind to read and understand."
I would suggest that you start.
"It was not written for a organization to tell us what the scriptures mean and then changes the meanings when their doctrines fail or when they need its members to do something."
Well, yes it was.
Jesus said to go and make disciples. Those disciples would preach and make more disciples. When those disciples followed Heb 10:24, 25, they would meet together in congregations as an organization. Paul said that they were to be teachers.
Jesus gave messages to 7 congregations and they were to be distributed thus those 7 congregations of that day, formed an organization. It is in your bible.
Ronald you said :"preach the bad tidings of eternal destruction for billions of men, women and children who have never been englightened and are still blinded by Satan."
What's the problem there?
They can repent and turn around and be saved.
If that is not the case then Jesus' death means nothing.
Steve:
"It doesnt matter what they are doing now.. Jesus would NEVER have chosen them in 1919. They were just the same as other religions."
You can complain all you want about what you don't like about 1918&1919, but the fact is that the churches complained about the Witnesses and Rutherford and the others were falsely put in prison.
Thus they were faithful while the churches were not.
And we now have 101,000+ congregations and what do those churches have? They don't have squat.
" They were doing things back then they now condemn other religions for doing. So why on earth would Jesus have chosen them??"
So what of it? If it was wrong, the religion would have stopped then. Why do you ask why? The fact is that Jesus did as we are here today. We are here, you can not deny that.
Password protected said:"
"A witness told me the other day that 'Jesus said he'd leave us a faithful and discreet slave'. I asked where he said that and was told Matthew 24. It is so sad that Witnesses are unable to read what the words printed in the Bible say."
Well, the Bible does say that in Matt 24:45-47. But the fact is that there are 7 million JWS worshipping Jehovah shoulder to shoulder. Jehovah is pleased. The question is: Is he pleased with you?
"Jehovah's Witnesses are actively taught at their meetings, conventions and in the publications that the Holy Spirit is only really available to the 'anointed', or faithful slave."
That is not true.
I have listened to the 2008 DC 3 times. And they state that it is available to all. The FDS is the process of distributing the spiritual food to all in the earth, not just the anointed. It originated with the anointed but there aren't that many anymore.
" If the non-anointed want to understand the Bible and serve God with approval, they must do it through or with this faithful slave class."
That is not what is taught at the convention. I suggest you attend and listen, which you have not done before.
Kimmy Jo:
"BUT THE US DOES NOT CLAIM TO REPRESENT THE TRUE GOD. THEY DO NOT USE HIS PRESOUS NAME TO MISLEAD MILLIONS WITH LIES AND DECEPTION."
The issues are not about claiming to represent the True God and thus doing everything right and perfectly is it?
Moses did represent the True God, but he did wrong things, so did Miriam and Aaron. Aaron was with the ones who made a golden calf.
David, Solomon and many others. They were just ones in line to the seed being Jesus. Jesus came and went and thus the imperfections of men matter not. Any wrong that the WTS did is irrelevant as they are not our messiah.
You asked:
""And if you were a JWs, how do you address it? Stop serving Jehovah God with his people? Stupid course of action don't you think?""
"My answer:
It is simple. Get over my pride, and get the hell out of the Watchtower."
Kind of hard since I am not in the Watchtower... Next.
Password protect:
You are writing much but saying nothing. No sense at all.
Why do you and the rest need to have all these excuses to stop serving Jehovah with his people? If you want to stop serving God, just stop.
You don't need to read all of this and write all of this. If you want to live in a way that is contrary to Jehovah's will, just do so, but why do you need to come up with all of these excuses as if you think that they mean anything to God?
defender - go back to your Bible, re-read Luke 21:8 and replace the word Christ with anointed. It's ok, you're allowed to do that in the Greek language.
"I am the anointed". Ring any bells? "I am the anointed and Christ's due time has approached." Remind you of anyone in the 1800s?
no need to answer you again it is a waste of time
Password whoever your name is
no need to answer you again, it will be a waste of time.
Jesus said:
matthew 24:5
5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
or Luke 21:5 saying I am the christ.
or if you want to replace by anointed.
Many will come saying I am the anointed. or Messiah
here he is talking about the anointed or the promised Messiah.
Jehovah witnesses never say they are the anointed or the Messiah
they say among them some are anointed by God.
2 corinthians 1"21
21-Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God
STop twisting the scriptures Read very carefully Luke 21:8
Matthew 24:5
good Luck
it luke 21:8
not LUke 21:5 error typing
Password:
"I am the anointed and Christ's due time has approached." Remind you of anyone in the 1800s?"
What does that have to do with Jehovah's Witnesses?
It is easy to criticize and be an armchair hitter but why don't you step up to the plate and try something yourself?
Pathetic that the defenders stoop to defending racism... they're even lower than JWs themselves... truly pathetic.
Concerning racism, Did any of you the fact that the civil war ended in 1865 and Jesus waited until after then in 1874 to return to inspect the people so that the issues of the day would not be problems with his people. And there weren't.
The white race does exhibit some qualities of superiority over any other races, as it says, that is true. He was not saying that the white race was or is superior but it exhibits qualities of superiority.
An anonymous fool said: "Pathetic that the defenders stoop to defending racism... they're even lower than JWs themselves... truly pathetic."
Except that the only racism presented here was by the blog owner.
"The white race does exhibit some qualities of superiority over any other races, as it says, that is true. He was not saying that the white race was or is superior but it exhibits qualities of superiority"
I would've thought that was the very definition of racism - the assumption that a colour of skin is superior to another.
You're absolutely right - with your attitude, you absolutely belong in the WTBS (if you've actually taken the plunge and got baptised, that is!) So much for the loving equal brotherhood y'all purport to have. I wonder who you'll feel superior to once your brothers' dark skins are bleached white by the almighty Jehovah after the great day of Armageddon.
With each comment, your ignorance and pathetic frame of mind become even more evident. No wonder you defend this disgusting organisation so rabidly.
Thank goodness I'm out of the eldritch clutches of such a dastardly organisation. I shudder to think I'd be sitting in the same k. hall as people such as you. Truly pathetic.
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