Thursday, July 24, 2008

J.F. Rutherford, President of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, a/k/a "Booze" Rutherford


15 comments:

Ronde said...

wow, Take a cheap shot at Rutherford.

Since he is not our messiah, his virtue does not save us and his sins do not condemn us.

If you were actually a JW, you would know that.

Anonymous said...

I know that Rutherford was head of an organization that channels the true God Jehovah. We are taught that we cannot be saved unless we are part of that organization. We cannot understand the Bible unless it is explained to us by Rutherford and other heads of the organization. I am a JW and I know that. I also do not close my eyes to the gross hypocrisy of that organization. It must be heard for you to breathe Ronde, with your head buried so far in the sand.

Tom Rook said...

Booze Rutherford, eh .......

Well, I should have hoped so.

As I tell my wife about six times a year..." I do not trust someone who does not drink!"

She rolls her eyes heavenward, and tolerates me, but when General Grant, during the American Civil War, was accused before Abraham Lincoln of being a drunkard, Abraham Lincoln reportedly replied something to the effect "Find out what he is drinking, and get a case of it to the other Generals...".

Hypocrisy? We are all hypocrites. You, me, everyone. It comes with the label of "earthling: big ugly bag of mostly water".

Some of us slosh when we walk more than others, but in this area, we all slosh.

Every time I shave I am reminded of my personal hypocrisy. The rest will remain unspoken.

Jehovah's Witnesses are by any reasonable account, exceptional and admirable people as a whole...but we have scalawags, bums, perverts, lazy, no good, rotten, slightly nuts, definitively crazy people, as all groups have.

They come...

They go...

Welcome to Terra, the home of men.

As the previous poster ronde said:

"..Since he is not our messiah, his virtue does not save us and his sins do not condemn us...."

Life is tough enough.....but it's harder on the clueless...inside, and outside of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Sorry about that...

Reality 101.

Tom.Rook@Technik-SA.US

PS: ever notice that Pizza tastes better with a pitcher of beer, and the jokes are funnier? I have.

Anonymous said...

Witnesses are neither good nor bad -- they're blank.
The morality of Witnesses is predicated on the directives of an organization that follows its own capricious whims. It's difficult to say, really, that Witnesses (the rank and file) are "good" people when most of them have relinquished all moral decision-making capabilities. One decision -- staying a faithful to the Organization at all costs -- determines the "good" or "bad" decisions a Witness will make for the rest of his life. That's why, whenever confronted with a conflict, Witnesses get that blank, dazed look, and run to do "research." There is no "good" and "bad" when you're a Witness, although Witnesses use those words. What they mean is "organization-approved" and "non-organization-approved." Morality is meaningless in the world of the Watchtower.

Are Witnesses good and nice to neighbors, and do they feel some vague sense of brotherhood and agape and all that? Perhaps, but only because they're told to. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, if Witnesses are "basically good people," it doesn't matter, because they can't take complete responsibility for that goodness. The flip side of the coin, though, is that when Witnesses are bad they can't take complete responsibility for those decisions either. The only thing you can really, truly, deeply blame a Witness for is being a Witness, persisting in a state of paralytic submission to a decidedly immoral, irresponsible, reprehensible organization. Everything else is peripheral.

kimmy jo said...

" Ronde said...
wow, Take a cheap shot at Rutherford.

Since he is not our messiah, his virtue does not save us and his sins do not condemn us.

If you were actually a JW, you would know that."

As a faithful, loyal JW of 17 years, I know that we as individuals and as a whole we are suppose to live our lives REPRESENTING the true God Jehovah. For crying out loud....Rutherford had a reputation as a heavy drinker! No kidding he is not your messiah, but he does represent the beginnings of your religion. It can't be denied, it is a worldly organization by biblical standards and unacceptable to be part of it and expect Jehovah God's approval.

JW's take it one step further, they hide behind his grand name as if it where a shield of approval.

Oh, I do not believe you have been a JW very long, because you separate yourself from your only source, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. It is wise on your part to listen to your conscience, it is speaking.

Ronde said...

"I know that Rutherford was head of an organization that channels the true God Jehovah."

You had wrong information.

Rutherford was not head of an organization. He was the president of the WTBTS, that is all.

The congregations of Bible Students accepted the name Jehovah's Witnesses by resolution and accepted to be affiliated with the WTBTS by resolution. So it was by the choice of the congregations back then.

And nothing wrong with channelling the true God Jehovah.


"We are taught that we cannot be saved unless we are part of that organization."

You are taught that by whom? Not the meetings. What we teach is that Christians teach and Christians gather together. Those two things result in a congregation or organization. Thus the organization is the result of Christianity. And why would Jesus want to save people who do not follow him in those things?

"We cannot understand the Bible unless it is explained to us by Rutherford and other heads of the organization."

Not so.

The fact is that people not in the congregation do not understand the Bible. Rutherford did have good explanations because he were the right person at the time. He helped stay firm against the nations.

No one not JW did that.

"I am a JW and I know that. I also do not close my eyes to the gross hypocrisy of that organization."

You are not a good JW if you focus on the hypocrisy that you claim rather than doing something to help. Thus you make yourself part of the problem and not the solution.



" It must be heard for you to breathe Ronde, with your head buried so far in the sand."

If you are a JW as you said, you should be working with me to solve these problems rather than working against me.

Ronde said...

Tom Rook:

You are so right.
Nothing wrong with drinking.
They are just taking cheap shots because they can't make any real accusations.

Ronde said...

"The morality of Witnesses is predicated on the directives of an organization that follows its own capricious whims."

Is that bad?


" It's difficult to say, really, that Witnesses (the rank and file) are "good" people when most of them have relinquished all moral decision-making capabilities."

Is that bad?

But it is not the people that we are claiming that are good, it is the laws of God that are good.


"One decision -- staying a faithful to the Organization at all costs -- determines the "good" or "bad" decisions a Witness will make for the rest of his life. "

Is that bad?
What is bad about staying faithful with the congregation? It is not "to the organization"

Anonymous said...

Interesting that the defenders of this disgusting religion insist on visiting apostate sites, such as this, AGAINST the wishes of the said religion, making long and pointless posts - they're only fooling themselves.

I hope the owner of this blog never stops exposing this religion for the mindless cult that it is. You're doing a fantastic job, and there must be lots more people like myself who appreciate your efforts.

Ronde said...

Whatever

Anonymous said...

Oh, ronde....... does this quote look familiar to you? At all?
"The Bible is an organizational book, and belongs to the Christian congregations as an organization, NOT TO INDIVIDUALS, regardless of how sincerely they may believe they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah's visible organization the (Watchtower Society ) in mind."
I am afraid that the Watchtower organization is hopelessly apostate. It does not want to change. It has made itself rich and powerful by following it's own lead, changing itself at will, and it will continue to do so. "Get out of her my people......."

Ronde said...

Anonymous:
"The Bible is an organizational book, and belongs to the Christian congregations as an organization, NOT TO INDIVIDUALS,"

I agree and accept that. The Law and the prophets was for Israel, which is a congregation or organization. Those words are synonymous. The letters of the apostles were written to congregations, which when combined form an organization.

To the Romans, Corinthians, Ephesians, Hebrews, etc, not to individuals. Timothy was written to him as an instruction on how to deal with the congregations.

"For this reason the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah's visible organization the (Watchtower Society ) in mind."

You misquoted it. The Watchtower Society is not Jehovah's visible organization. It is a printing facility that is used by Jehovah's visible organization.

Did you even note that the Watchtower Society is not used much anymore?

Now Wallkill printing facility and Patterson - Watchtower Education Center, is used. And the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses.

But the fact is that those not of the CCJW do not understand the Bible. Why is that?

kimmy jo said...

Dear ronde,

You really don't get it do you. You swing both ways, in defense of the Watchtower org. and then you will swing the other way and say the Watchtower and JW's are totally separate.?? JW's would not/can not exist without the watchtower.
You seem confused.

Ronde said...

No, Kimmy Jo, you are confused.

There is no such thing as the "Watchtower organzation" other than that which is in Brooklyn, Patterson and Wallkill. But Patterson is called the Watchtower Education Center and Wallkill is the printing facility.

watchtower.org is the website.

Yes, The WTBTS and JWs are separate other than the JWs that work there.

And we can exist without the Watchtower Society because we do exist without it. The Watchtower no longer exists, it is the CCJW that oversees our work.

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