Well, since there is no "Watchtower Organization", they can never prophesy about anything.
But I have heard talks from Fred Franz and others who worked at the Watchtower Society stated that they did not look to 1975 specifically for the end. It could happen, but they didn't say it specifically.
As always, you are misleading by focusing on the printings only.
How does that affect your service and faith to Jehovah God?
Jehovah's witnesses as a people teaching from the Bible as Matt 24:14 states of the kingdom shows that it is not about 30 year old printings but we go by the words of the son of God that he gave 2000 years ago.
1975 the true? apostate you are wrong again,and again, and again. giving people the wrong informations about the witnesses. what the watchtower really say about 1975?
in 1963 the book all scripture is inspired and beneficial stated: "It does no good to use bible chronology for speculating on dates that are still future in the stream of time."
May 1, 1968 watchtower page 270 paragraph 8 said let me just copy and paste. 8- Does this mean that the year 1975 will bring the battle of Armageddon? No one can say with certainty what any particular year will bring. Jesus said: “Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows.” (Mark 13:32)
the watchtower said no one can say for sure. Jehovah witnesses did not know exactly what was going to happen, some of them did not follow the line of thoughts found in the watchtower publications.
what about June 15 1974 page 375 paragraph 18 watchtower? again let me paste and copy for you
18- And it is the same today among true Christians who realize from the fulfillment of Bible prophecy that the end of this entire wicked system of things is near at hand. True, the most accurate Bible chronology available indicates that 6,000 years of human existence will end in the mid-1970’s. So these Christians are intensely interested to see if that will coincide with the outbreak of the “great tribulation” of our day that will eliminate all wicked ones on earth. It could. But they are not even attempting to predict exactly when the destruction of Satan’s wicked system of things will occur. They are content to wait and see, realizing that no human on earth knows the date.—Matt. 24:36. they were not sure about what was going to happen.
I previously posted this comment on a previous thread but I also think it is fitting here.
Grissom6471 some statements you have made:
1. There should be no reason for anyone to have to defend the faith.
1 Pet. 3:15. states, “Always ready to make a defense before everyone that demands of you a reason for the hope in you, but doing do together with a mild temper and deep respect.”—1 Pet. 3:15. It is proper to defend your faith. And on a side note, your comments show you have neither a mild temper or deep respect.
2. All humans on earth except Jehovah’s Witnesses are destroyed!" will bring sadness to us, but that is why we are preaching to the people to help them survive so they do not have to die.
We do not believe all humans on earth except Jehovah’s Witnesses will be destroyed. Go to the FAQ site on jw-media.org and this question is answered.
It states, “Do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved? No. Many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah's Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. Humans look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. God has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours.—Matthew 7:1-5; John 5:22, 27.
http://www.jw-media.org/beliefs/beliefsfaq.htm
3. We still must tell the truth among these apostate lies.
We do not need to respond to apostates. We should follow the example of Jesus. When the Devil tried to get in an argument with him regarding the location of Moses’ body, it is written, “he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah rebuke you.”
4.They are wrong for placing focus on 1975 as if JWs as a relgion taught it would be the end, when certain individuals may have stated that but it was not an organizational teaching.
It wasn’t just certain individuals that believed 1975 would be the end; many witnesses believed it including many in Bethel. And this view did come out in the publications. And it has been acknowledged as an error. *** w80 3/15 p. 17 par. 5 Choosing the Best Way of Life *** 5 In modern times such eagerness, commendable in itself, has led to attempts at setting dates for the desired liberation from the suffering and troubles that are the lot of persons throughout the earth. With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting—in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of man’s existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. There were statements made then, and thereafter, stressing that this was only a possibility. Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility. It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated.
*** g95 6/22 p. 9 Can You Trust God’s Promises? *** Bible Students, known since 1931 as Jehovah’s Witnesses, also expected that the year 1925 would see the fulfillment of marvelous Bible prophecies. They surmised that at that time the earthly resurrection would begin, bringing back faithful men of old, such as Abraham, David, and Daniel. More recently, many Witnesses conjectured that events associated with the beginning of Christ’s Millennial Reign might start to take place in 1975. Their anticipation was based on the understanding that the seventh millennium of human history would begin then. These erroneous views did not mean that God’s promises were wrong, that he had made a mistake. By no means! The mistakes or misconceptions, as in the case of first-century Christians, were due to a failure to heed Jesus’ caution, ‘You do not know the time.’ The wrong conclusions were due, not to malice or to unfaithfulness to Christ, but to a fervent desire to realize the fulfillment of God’s promises in their own time.
5. Quickbuilds do not get people out of field service. IT is a good way to learn skills, meet people (girls) and get good food.
Quickbuilds are not about learning skills, meeting girls or getting good food. Quickbuilds are about building a suitable place for people to gather in a community to worship their God, Jehovah.
6. "people who are not Jehovah’s Witnesses are capable of ethical and loving behavior", but it is meaningless if they are not serving Jehovah. And it is simply that which is common to humanity and not related to God.
It is never meaningless if one displays ethical and loving behavior. This is true, regardless if they are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses or not. And such behavior is related to God, for God is love and he has placed this quality in us to display to others.
7. You make statements such as, “If you're 25 years old and have never kissed anyone but your mom, you are ugly and have BO.” And, “Thank you. They are going to make nice privys for us.” And, “Jehovah's Witnesses do not feel that "all men with facial hair are unacceptable". We just feel that they are ugly”.
These are all negative and rude comments. They are not the views of Jehovah’s Witnesses so please don’t present them as such.
When you state you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and you say “we believe” or “Jehovah’s Witnesses believe” your comments reflect on us all and people make judgments that your views and statements are shared by ALL witnesses.
To summarize you state, “Since I understand such things I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses.” I sincerely believe you count yourself as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses but I would question if you are truly a witness of Jehovah. They can mean the same thing but they don’t necessarily have to.
I clicked on the quotes. It makes them bigger so that you can read them.
If you look at history there have always existed doomsayers that think that the end is nigh in their generation....
However, please do not overlook the fact that what Peter had in mind when he talked about the end times is vastly different than what Jehovah's Witnesses mean when they talk about end times. The Jehovah's Witnesses are going door to door to, in effect, gather more converts to their religion and they use the fear of "the end is near" in order to do it. DEFENDER, have you seen this quote from the Watchtower: "One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man's existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end" - The Watchtower, "Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?", August 15, 1968
The Watchtower tells us, in plain English, to ignore the words of Jesus Christ and to listen to them. Jehovah's Witnesses do not teach from the Bible. In fact, they have built an entire religion on doctrine that cannot be found in the Bible.
Why are you all talking about something 30 years ago?
This good news of the kingdom will be preached, the master said. It is not about fear but good news.
So if we look and looked to the good news of the kingdom as being 1974, 1975, 76,77,78, 79, etc, then good for us. We are doing what the master said to do.
You state, "please do not overlook the fact that what Peter had in mind when he talked about the end times is vastly different than what Jehovah's Witnesses mean when they talk about end times." So what do you think Peter meant when he said at 1 Peter 4:7, "But the end of all things has drawn close. Be sound in mind, therefore, and be vigilant with a view to prayers." Do you think he was trying to scare the first century Christians into not leaving and going back into their former religions? Or do you think he was trying to make new converts by scaring them (the sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!)? Or do you think he was actually telling those faithful 1945 years ago that the end of all things was near because he truely believed it was near? Those are really the only three possibilities.
Pathetic - the defenders continue to attempt to defend! Even despite all evidence showing how beneath contempt this organisation is. With people like this, it's no wonder the organisation continues to poison society.
We are talking about something that happened 30 years ago because some of us were there. It IS relevant to us because it was yet another of the Organizations false predictions, like the 'generation' prophecy, which was highlighted for many many years to keep JWs in a state of anticipation for Armageddon.
Page 2 of Awake! magazine, under the "Awake! magazine's purpose" statement (March 8, 1988 thru November 1, 1995): "Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away."
"Jehovah's prophetic word through Jesus Christ is: 'This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.' (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired an unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment." --The Watchtower, May 15, 1984, pgs. 6-7
"Jehovah's Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus' second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect." . . . "Never did they say, 'These are the words of Jehovah.'" --Awake! March 22, 1993, pg. 4
What a blatant lie.
Here is another blatant lie.
Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15
If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the 'last days' in 1914, Jesus foretold: 'This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.' Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way towards its finish, if not actually gone! This is why parents who base their lives on God's prophetic Word find it much more practical to direct their young ones into trades that do not require such long periods of additional schooling… True, those who do not understand where we are in the stream of time from God's viewpoint will call this impractical. But which is really practical: preparing yourself for a position in this world that soon will pass away? or working toward surviving this system's end and enjoying eternal life in God's righteous new order?
I was 11 years old in 1969. That Awake was talking to me and I am now 51 with a career of window cleaning behind me and no pension as such, because I was 'never going to grow old in this system'.
So dont say it doesnt matter Grissom, because it damn well does matter and is still affecting those of us who gave up our education, careers and financial security on the strength of the Gov Body of JWs statements back then.
"Jehovah's prophetic word through Jesus Christ is: 'This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.'"
Did I have a better idea of what this Scripture meant?
Stop the ad hominen attacks and trying to sidetrack the argument. Its not very intelligent. Jehovah was not channeling his truth through me, was he?. These men on the Gov Body are supposed to receive the Truth from Jehovah.
And you know what...THEY WERE WRONG! You obviously think that some explanation, even if it is way off the mark, is better than honestly saying 'We dont know.'
But it seems Jehovah likes to play games with his people because they have now changed their view on this scripture at least 4 times! And now the very 'old truth or old light has now become 'new truth or new light' again. Just this year they have gone back to what they believed in 1927 about the 'generation', that it is the anointed. Of course that means they can just keep coming out of the woodwork indefinitely and so Armageddon is no longer imminent.
Ronde said:
'And if you were there and found a problem, why didn't you do anything about it, rather than be a problem now?'
I didnt find a problem. I was very young, idealistic and impressionable. I wanted the the new world with all its cures of mans problems. I still do. I believed strongly. But I had no experience of the Society's dishonesty, or their arrogance, or their flip flopping on beliefs back then. And if you mean why didnt I talk to the elders about problems like that, you obviously have not been a JW very long, or you would know exactly why you dont ask the Society awkward questions.
Oh and I didnt say it was a prophecy as in a Bible prophecy. I said it was a WT prediction, like 1874, 1914, 1915, 1925, and the many others that have demonstrably proved false.
(I notice you sidestepped all the quotations from the society's literature and did exactly what a WT Society clone would do, follow its master and resort to ad hominen attacks)
Yes they were wrong and continue to be wrong and yet never admit it or take responsibility for misleading so many people....just like the rest of organized religion.
The Organization states that they are the mediators between God, Christ and the rest of mankind. They have stated many times that it is impossible to come to a knowledge of truth without them and have a good relationship with Jehovah without being baptized as a Jehovah's Witness.
There is no room for independent thinking in the Organization.
You seem to be someone who can think for themselves, like I eventually did after 40 years in it, some spent as an elder.
If it IS about the individual, then you should be able to see that there are many sincere lovers of God in most religions and also some who do not even have a religion. So it doesnt matter which faith you choose as long as you know you are 'right' with God.
"Yes they were wrong and continue to be wrong and yet never admit it"
Well, that is fine. But you have not told me who this "they" is. So your statement is meaningless.
But then my faith is my faith and not based on any "they". So we are back to - What is your point?
"The Organization states that they are the mediators between God, Christ and the rest of mankind."
What organization?
Jehovah's organization?
Jehovah's organization is 7 million people. How can 7 million people be mediators between God, Christ, and the rest of mankind? Strike two against you.
Oh, yes. Those 7 million are mediators in the sense - well, that is a different meaning and usage of preacher. I guess preachers are mediators because they bring the message to the people.
"They have stated many times that it is impossible to come to a knowledge of truth without them."
Who is this "they" again?
Yes, it is true that it is not possible to know the truth without Jehovah's Witnesses as I have not seen anyone not a JW know the truth.
"and have a good relationship with Jehovah without being baptized as a Jehovah's Witness."
When I see someone now a JW have a relationship with Jehovah God, I will believe that. Thus far I have not seen that.
"There is no room for independent thinking in the Organization."
As the Joker said in Batman 1989 "Wait'll they get a load of ME!"
Why do people say that not having independent thinking is bad? Obviously if you are a fan of independent thinking and you are arguing against me, then independent thinking is bad. Think about it.
"You seem to be someone who can think for themselves, like I eventually did after 40 years in it, some spent as an elder."
But you are not thinking for yourself. You are just spewing the same crap that all of the others apostates spew that you get from the internet. No original thoughts there.
"If it IS about the individual, then you should be able to see that there are many sincere lovers of God in most religions and also some who do not even have a religion. So it doesnt matter which faith you choose as long as you know you are 'right' with God."
Sincere lovers of God. Meaningless.
It does not matter what faith one chooses?
Is that all the depth that your independent mind can come up with?
Wow Ronde, you really are an idiot. Such a typical Jehovah's Witless.
You acknowledge the many faults of the Jehovah's Witness organization and you accept those faults.
I personally have no problem if someone wants to waste their life (which you are) for a terribly flawed man-made organization. The problem is that you like all of your "brothers and sisters" rip families apart and let people mentally and physically die. All in the name of God.
The fact of the matter is you would probably be a failure outside of the organization. Is that why you are so afraid of the truth? Terrified to open your eyes and come to terms that you have wasted your entire life?
I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses because the opposers find it necessary to use insults to do their message.
"You acknowledge the many faults of the Jehovah's Witness organization and you accept those faults."
Yes, because I am Jehovah's Witnesses organization and I have fautls and I have to deal with them. That's life.
But because of my faith in Jesus and his shed blood, I have and will wash my robe and make it white in the blood of the lamb and those faults will be gone. There are million others like that. Those millions form an organization or congregation.
"I personally have no problem if someone wants to waste their life (which you are) for a terribly flawed man-made organization."
Reread what I just wrote and then can you call it a waste of life?
From what I see, you don't believe in what I wrote so you are the one wasting your life.
If all you can do is insult, what does that say about you?
1. False Prophets 2. Protects Pedophiles 3. Practically forbids higher education 4. Was a member of the UN (Beast) 5. Is 100% WRONG about blood transfusions 6. Ruins families 7. Arrogant and intolerant 8. Takes from society but gives nothing back 9. Can't make up its mind on doctrine, yet punishes those who question 10. Controlling and manipulative
...and so many more. You must be a proud member of this organization!
Have you destroyed your family yet? How many family members or friends have you hurt so far?
The organization has not made any prophesies. Interpreting the prophesies in the Bible is not prophesying. Thus it is not false prophesying. One the otherhand being ignorant of them is even worse.
2. Protects Pedophiles
There are no pedophiles in Jehovah's Organization. Sure, some individuals did bad things but there is no evidence that they were pedophiles - by definition.
3. Practically forbids higher education
There is no forbidding. It is just that University education is a waste of time and money. Why spend that time and money just to flip burgers. Degrees do not guarantee good jobs.
4. Was a member of the UN (Beast)
Not true. Being an NGO of of the UN is not a member of the UN. And that was just an individual who worked at the Watchtower Society, not Jehovah's Organization. What workers of the watchtower do, does not make Jehovah's organization bad.
5. Is 100% WRONG about blood transfusions
You are a fool for saying that. Nuff said.
6. Ruins families
Why can't those families also serve Jehovah so all can be happy? Ever think of that one?
7. Arrogant and intolerant
Thank you.
8. Takes from society but gives nothing back
Huh?
9. Can't make up its mind on doctrine, yet punishes those who question
Huh? no one is punished for questioning.
10. Controlling and manipulative
Where? How?
"...and so many more. You must be a proud member of this organization!"
I am proud to say that you don't know Jack about this religion.
"Have you destroyed your family yet? How many family members or friends have you hurt so far?"
No families have been destroyed by JWs. It is the non-JWs who destroy them.
Think about it.
If all in families served Jehovah, there would be happiness. But the opposite can not be true.
You are absolutely 100% under cult control. One day you will realize how wrong you are. Hopefully that day will be sooner than later so that you can enjoy life as it was meant to be lived.
You are not a JW its obvious, otherwise you would know that when I speak about 'they', I mean the hierarchy, the governing body, the rule makers, the faithful slave.
Its not very clever, (but quite predictable)that when I try to have civil discourse with you you try to sidetrack arguments with personal attacks and being pedantic when the posters here all know what I am talking about, except you, it seems.
However I have put my arguments out there, backed up by quotes from the Society's literature, which you have not addressed and I leave it to the readers of this blog to determine who makes the most sense.
I dont spew crap from the internet. I have written communication from the society in which they lied. I have my experiences of 40 years as a JW to know that they do not possess the truth about God.
I know who sound the most bitter, fanatical and nasty on this blog and it is not the ones who you label apostates. It is the defenders of the JW faith, the Gov Body, the Organization, the Society....'THEY'.
you are missing the point. I am not asking you who the 'they' are. I am asking you why you focus on them.
To me, there is no 'they'.
I get up in the morning, go to work. And then go home. There is no they. There is only me and my faith. Three times a week we have meetings at the Kingdom Hall, there is no they. There is a group of people who study and discuss the Bible.
I think that people focus too much on the 'they' and not enough on themselves.
"However I have put my arguments out there, backed up by quotes from the Society's literature, which you have not addressed"
What is there for me to address? I didn't write it. It has nothing to do with me as a JW. It is what the overseers of the worldwide congregation want to communicate with the flock at a particular time. Again, not relevant to today.
I don't understand why people are so fascinated with the Watchtower and the literature. I prefer to listening to the brothers teach through audio rather than printed material. The Bible is simple and your diverting attention from it to the Watchtower shows that you can't deal with the Bible.
Like I said, you are not a Jehovah's Witness. If you are, then the other 7 million are not. I have never heard any JW talk like you, in all my years as one. If you said some of the things to your body of elders that you have posted on this blog, you would find yourself in deep trouble with the hierarchy...maybe even disfellowshipped for apostate thinking.
Come and join us...I mean you are already disobeying the Gov Body by being here and having dialogue to evil apostates so why not go the whole hog and set yourself up as an Independent Jehovah's witness...or an Alternative Jehovah's Witness, because you are dangerously far removed from the mainstream.
Please click on photograph to enlarge the clips allowing you to read them easily.
29 comments:
Well, since there is no "Watchtower Organization", they can never prophesy about anything.
But I have heard talks from Fred Franz and others who worked at the Watchtower Society stated that they did not look to 1975 specifically for the end. It could happen, but they didn't say it specifically.
As always, you are misleading by focusing on the printings only.
how about some better resolution so we can read all the quotes?
Markus,
What difference does it make?
How does that affect your service and faith to Jehovah God?
Jehovah's witnesses as a people teaching from the Bible as Matt 24:14 states of the kingdom shows that it is not about 30 year old printings but we go by the words of the son of God that he gave 2000 years ago.
1975 the true?
apostate you are wrong again,and again, and again. giving people the wrong informations about the witnesses.
what the watchtower really say about 1975?
in 1963 the book all scripture is inspired and beneficial stated:
"It does no good to use bible chronology for speculating on dates that are still future in the stream of time."
May 1, 1968 watchtower page 270 paragraph 8 said let me just copy and paste.
8- Does this mean that the year 1975 will bring the battle of Armageddon? No one can say with certainty what any particular year will bring. Jesus said: “Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows.” (Mark 13:32)
the watchtower said no one can say for sure.
Jehovah witnesses did not know exactly what was going to happen, some of them did not follow the line of thoughts found in the watchtower publications.
what about June 15 1974 page 375 paragraph 18 watchtower?
again let me paste and copy for you
18- And it is the same today among true Christians who realize from the fulfillment of Bible prophecy that the end of this entire wicked system of things is near at hand. True, the most accurate Bible chronology available indicates that 6,000 years of human existence will end in the mid-1970’s. So these Christians are intensely interested to see if that will coincide with the outbreak of the “great tribulation” of our day that will eliminate all wicked ones on earth. It could. But they are not even attempting to predict exactly when the destruction of Satan’s wicked system of things will occur. They are content to wait and see, realizing that no human on earth knows the date.—Matt. 24:36.
they were not sure about what was going to happen.
Thank you defender.
It is good that there are people who read things in their context and not like the apostates who just take what they want to make their wrong point.
I previously posted this comment on a previous thread but I also think it is fitting here.
Grissom6471 some statements you have made:
1. There should be no reason for anyone to have to defend the faith.
1 Pet. 3:15. states, “Always ready to make a defense before everyone that demands of you a reason for the hope in you, but doing do together with a mild temper and deep respect.”—1 Pet. 3:15.
It is proper to defend your faith. And on a side note, your comments show you have neither a mild temper or deep respect.
2. All humans on earth except Jehovah’s Witnesses are destroyed!" will bring sadness to us, but that is why we are preaching to the people to help them survive so they do not have to die.
We do not believe all humans on earth except Jehovah’s Witnesses will be destroyed. Go to the FAQ site on jw-media.org and this question is answered.
It states,
“Do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?
No. Many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah's Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. Humans look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. God has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours.—Matthew 7:1-5; John 5:22, 27.
http://www.jw-media.org/beliefs/beliefsfaq.htm
3. We still must tell the truth among these apostate lies.
We do not need to respond to apostates. We should follow the example of Jesus. When the Devil tried to get in an argument with him regarding the location of Moses’ body, it is written, “he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah rebuke you.”
4.They are wrong for placing focus on 1975 as if JWs as a relgion taught it would be the end, when certain individuals may have stated that but it was not an organizational teaching.
It wasn’t just certain individuals that believed 1975 would be the end; many witnesses believed it including many in Bethel. And this view did come out in the publications. And it has been acknowledged as an error.
*** w80 3/15 p. 17 par. 5 Choosing the Best Way of Life ***
5 In modern times such eagerness, commendable in itself, has led to attempts at setting dates for the desired liberation from the suffering and troubles that are the lot of persons throughout the earth. With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting—in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of man’s existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. There were statements made then, and thereafter, stressing that this was only a possibility. Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility. It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated.
*** g95 6/22 p. 9 Can You Trust God’s Promises? ***
Bible Students, known since 1931 as Jehovah’s Witnesses, also expected that the year 1925 would see the fulfillment of marvelous Bible prophecies. They surmised that at that time the earthly resurrection would begin, bringing back faithful men of old, such as Abraham, David, and Daniel. More recently, many Witnesses conjectured that events associated with the beginning of Christ’s Millennial Reign might start to take place in 1975. Their anticipation was based on the understanding that the seventh millennium of human history would begin then.
These erroneous views did not mean that God’s promises were wrong, that he had made a mistake. By no means! The mistakes or misconceptions, as in the case of first-century Christians, were due to a failure to heed Jesus’ caution, ‘You do not know the time.’ The wrong conclusions were due, not to malice or to unfaithfulness to Christ, but to a fervent desire to realize the fulfillment of God’s promises in their own time.
5. Quickbuilds do not get people out of field service. IT is a good way to learn skills, meet people (girls) and get good food.
Quickbuilds are not about learning skills, meeting girls or getting good food. Quickbuilds are about building a suitable place for people to gather in a community to worship their God, Jehovah.
6. "people who are not Jehovah’s Witnesses are capable of ethical and loving behavior", but it is meaningless if they are not serving Jehovah. And it is simply that which is common to humanity and not related to God.
It is never meaningless if one displays ethical and loving behavior. This is true, regardless if they are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses or not. And such behavior is related to God, for God is love and he has placed this quality in us to display to others.
7. You make statements such as, “If you're 25 years old and have never kissed anyone but your mom, you are ugly and have BO.” And, “Thank you. They are going to make nice privys for us.” And, “Jehovah's Witnesses do not feel that "all men with facial hair are unacceptable". We just feel that they are ugly”.
These are all negative and rude comments. They are not the views of Jehovah’s Witnesses so please don’t present them as such.
When you state you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and you say “we believe” or “Jehovah’s Witnesses believe” your comments reflect on us all and people make judgments that your views and statements are shared by ALL witnesses.
To summarize you state, “Since I understand such things I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses.” I sincerely believe you count yourself as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses but I would question if you are truly a witness of Jehovah. They can mean the same thing but they don’t necessarily have to.
The fall of the Watchtower cult will be OUR paradise on earth. Can't wait!
Poster named Matthew is a typical troll.
A nonsense statement.
The Watchtower is a magazine and can not be a cult.
Better to be a troll then a JW!
I clicked on the quotes. It makes them bigger so that you can read them.
If you look at history there have always existed doomsayers that think that the end is nigh in their generation....
However, please do not overlook the fact that what Peter had in mind when he talked about the end times is vastly different than what Jehovah's Witnesses mean when they talk about end times. The Jehovah's Witnesses are going door to door to, in effect, gather more converts to their religion and they use the fear of "the end is near" in order to do it.
DEFENDER, have you seen this quote from the Watchtower:
"One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man's existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end" - The Watchtower, "Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?", August 15, 1968
The Watchtower tells us, in plain English, to ignore the words of Jesus Christ and to listen to them.
Jehovah's Witnesses do not teach from the Bible. In fact, they have built an entire religion on doctrine that cannot be found in the Bible.
Why are you all talking about something 30 years ago?
This good news of the kingdom will be preached, the master said. It is not about fear but good news.
So if we look and looked to the good news of the kingdom as being 1974, 1975, 76,77,78, 79, etc, then good for us. We are doing what the master said to do.
The question now is: Are you?
NICKEL ALLERGY SUFFERERS:
You state, "please do not overlook the fact that what Peter had in mind when he talked about the end times is vastly different than what Jehovah's Witnesses mean when they talk about end times."
So what do you think Peter meant when he said at 1 Peter 4:7, "But the end of all things has drawn close. Be sound in mind, therefore, and be vigilant with a view to prayers." Do you think he was trying to scare the first century Christians into not leaving and going back into their former religions? Or do you think he was trying to make new converts by scaring them (the sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!)? Or do you think he was actually telling those faithful 1945 years ago that the end of all things was near because he truely believed it was near? Those are really the only three possibilities.
Pathetic - the defenders continue to attempt to defend! Even despite all evidence showing how beneath contempt this organisation is. With people like this, it's no wonder the organisation continues to poison society.
Whatever
We are talking about something that happened 30 years ago because some of us were there. It IS relevant to us because it was yet another of the Organizations false predictions, like the 'generation' prophecy, which was highlighted for many many years to keep JWs in a state of anticipation for Armageddon.
Page 2 of Awake! magazine, under the "Awake! magazine's purpose" statement
(March 8, 1988 thru November 1, 1995):
"Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away."
"Jehovah's prophetic word through Jesus Christ is: 'This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.' (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired an unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment."
--The Watchtower, May 15, 1984, pgs. 6-7
"Jehovah's Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus' second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect." . . . "Never did they say, 'These are the words of Jehovah.'"
--Awake! March 22, 1993, pg. 4
What a blatant lie.
Here is another blatant lie.
Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15
If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the 'last days' in 1914, Jesus foretold: 'This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.' Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way towards its finish, if not actually gone! This is why parents who base their lives on God's prophetic Word find it much more practical to direct their young ones into trades that do not require such long periods of additional schooling… True, those who do not understand where we are in the stream of time from God's viewpoint will call this impractical. But which is really practical: preparing yourself for a position in this world that soon will pass away? or working toward surviving this system's end and enjoying eternal life in God's righteous new order?
I was 11 years old in 1969. That Awake was talking to me and I am now 51 with a career of window cleaning behind me and no pension as such, because I was 'never going to grow old in this system'.
So dont say it doesnt matter Grissom, because it damn well does matter and is still affecting those of us who gave up our education, careers and financial security on the strength of the Gov Body of JWs statements back then.
Steve,
"We are talking about something that happened 30 years ago because some of us were there."
And many of us were there too and are still faithfully serving Jehovah. Why did you stumble?
And if you were there and found a problem, why didn't you do anything about it, rather than be a problem now?
"It IS relevant to us because it was yet another of the Organizations false predictions, "
FYI, it was not a prophecy at all.
Thus it can not be a false prophecy.
"to keep JWs in a state of anticipation for Armageddon."
If you were ever a JW, you would know that the Bible says to be in expectation of armageddon.
"Jehovah's prophetic word through Jesus Christ is: 'This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.'"
Did you have a better idea as to what that scripture meant? I didn't think so.
Since you did not have a better idea. You ought to just shut up.
"Jehovah's prophetic word through Jesus Christ is: 'This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.'"
Did I have a better idea of what this Scripture meant?
Stop the ad hominen attacks and trying to sidetrack the argument. Its not very intelligent. Jehovah was not channeling his truth through me, was he?. These men on the Gov Body are supposed to receive the Truth from Jehovah.
And you know what...THEY WERE WRONG! You obviously think that some explanation, even if it is way off the mark, is better than honestly saying 'We dont know.'
But it seems Jehovah likes to play games with his people because they have now changed their view on this scripture at least 4 times! And now the very 'old truth or old light has now become 'new truth or new light' again. Just this year they have gone back to what they believed in 1927 about the 'generation', that it is the anointed. Of course that means they can just keep coming out of the woodwork indefinitely and so Armageddon is no longer imminent.
Ronde said:
'And if you were there and found a problem, why didn't you do anything about it, rather than be a problem now?'
I didnt find a problem. I was very young, idealistic and impressionable. I wanted the the new world with all its cures of mans problems. I still do. I believed strongly. But I had no experience of the Society's dishonesty, or their arrogance, or their flip flopping on beliefs back then. And if you mean why didnt I talk to the elders about problems like that, you obviously have not been a JW very long, or you would know exactly why you dont ask the Society awkward questions.
Oh and I didnt say it was a prophecy as in a Bible prophecy. I said it was a WT prediction, like 1874, 1914, 1915, 1925, and the many others that have demonstrably proved false.
(I notice you sidestepped all the quotations from the society's literature and did exactly what a WT Society clone would do, follow its master and resort to ad hominen attacks)
Steve:
You said that they were wrong.
Well, la de da.
They were wrong.
Christianity is not about the "they".
It is about your relationship with Jehovah God through Jesus, not they.
You reject that relationship because I do not see how Jehovah would want to relate to you.
You care nothing about his kingdom that his son died for.
So forget about the they and focus on the you.
Ronde
Yes they were wrong and continue to be wrong and yet never admit it or take responsibility for misleading so many people....just like the rest of organized religion.
The Organization states that they are the mediators between God, Christ and the rest of mankind. They have stated many times that it is impossible to come to a knowledge of truth without them and have a good relationship with Jehovah without being baptized as a Jehovah's Witness.
There is no room for independent thinking in the Organization.
You seem to be someone who can think for themselves, like I eventually did after 40 years in it, some spent as an elder.
If it IS about the individual, then you should be able to see that there are many sincere lovers of God in most religions and also some who do not even have a religion. So it doesnt matter which faith you choose as long as you know you are 'right' with God.
Hey Steve,
"Yes they were wrong and continue to be wrong and yet never admit it"
Well, that is fine. But you have not told me who this "they" is. So your statement is meaningless.
But then my faith is my faith and not based on any "they". So we are back to - What is your point?
"The Organization states that they are the mediators between God, Christ and the rest of mankind."
What organization?
Jehovah's organization?
Jehovah's organization is 7 million people. How can 7 million people be mediators between God, Christ, and the rest of mankind? Strike two against you.
Oh, yes. Those 7 million are mediators in the sense - well, that is a different meaning and usage of preacher. I guess preachers are mediators because they bring the message to the people.
"They have stated many times that it is impossible to come to a knowledge of truth without them."
Who is this "they" again?
Yes, it is true that it is not possible to know the truth without Jehovah's Witnesses as I have not seen anyone not a JW know the truth.
"and have a good relationship with Jehovah without being baptized as a Jehovah's Witness."
When I see someone now a JW have a relationship with Jehovah God, I will believe that. Thus far I have not seen that.
"There is no room for independent thinking in the Organization."
As the Joker said in Batman 1989 "Wait'll they get a load of ME!"
Why do people say that not having independent thinking is bad? Obviously if you are a fan of independent thinking and you are arguing against me, then independent thinking is bad. Think about it.
"You seem to be someone who can think for themselves, like I eventually did after 40 years in it, some spent as an elder."
But you are not thinking for yourself. You are just spewing the same crap that all of the others apostates spew that you get from the internet. No original thoughts there.
"If it IS about the individual, then you should be able to see that there are many sincere lovers of God in most religions and also some who do not even have a religion. So it doesnt matter which faith you choose as long as you know you are 'right' with God."
Sincere lovers of God. Meaningless.
It does not matter what faith one chooses?
Is that all the depth that your independent mind can come up with?
What a shame.
Wow Ronde, you really are an idiot. Such a typical Jehovah's Witless.
You acknowledge the many faults of the Jehovah's Witness organization and you accept those faults.
I personally have no problem if someone wants to waste their life (which you are) for a terribly flawed man-made organization. The problem is that you like all of your "brothers and sisters" rip families apart and let people mentally and physically die. All in the name of God.
The fact of the matter is you would probably be a failure outside of the organization. Is that why you are so afraid of the truth? Terrified to open your eyes and come to terms that you have wasted your entire life?
"Only the education are truly free"
Matthew:
I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses because the opposers find it necessary to use insults to do their message.
"You acknowledge the many faults of the Jehovah's Witness organization and you accept those faults."
Yes, because I am Jehovah's Witnesses organization and I have fautls and I have to deal with them. That's life.
But because of my faith in Jesus and his shed blood, I have and will wash my robe and make it white in the blood of the lamb and those faults will be gone. There are million others like that. Those millions form an organization or congregation.
"I personally have no problem if someone wants to waste their life (which you are) for a terribly flawed man-made organization."
Reread what I just wrote and then can you call it a waste of life?
From what I see, you don't believe in what I wrote so you are the one wasting your life.
If all you can do is insult, what does that say about you?
What a good little slave you are!
Let's look at the organizations faults.
1. False Prophets
2. Protects Pedophiles
3. Practically forbids higher education
4. Was a member of the UN (Beast)
5. Is 100% WRONG about blood transfusions
6. Ruins families
7. Arrogant and intolerant
8. Takes from society but gives nothing back
9. Can't make up its mind on doctrine, yet punishes those who question
10. Controlling and manipulative
...and so many more. You must be a proud member of this organization!
Have you destroyed your family yet? How many family members or friends have you hurt so far?
Matthew:
It is obvious that you are the slave of satan.
1. False Prophets
The organization has not made any prophesies. Interpreting the prophesies in the Bible is not prophesying. Thus it is not false prophesying. One the otherhand being ignorant of them is even worse.
2. Protects Pedophiles
There are no pedophiles in Jehovah's Organization. Sure, some individuals did bad things but there is no evidence that they were pedophiles - by definition.
3. Practically forbids higher education
There is no forbidding. It is just that University education is a waste of time and money. Why spend that time and money just to flip burgers. Degrees do not guarantee good jobs.
4. Was a member of the UN (Beast)
Not true. Being an NGO of of the UN is not a member of the UN. And that was just an individual who worked at the Watchtower Society, not Jehovah's Organization. What workers of the watchtower do, does not make Jehovah's organization bad.
5. Is 100% WRONG about blood transfusions
You are a fool for saying that. Nuff said.
6. Ruins families
Why can't those families also serve Jehovah so all can be happy? Ever think of that one?
7. Arrogant and intolerant
Thank you.
8. Takes from society but gives nothing back
Huh?
9. Can't make up its mind on doctrine, yet punishes those who question
Huh? no one is punished for questioning.
10. Controlling and manipulative
Where? How?
"...and so many more. You must be a proud member of this organization!"
I am proud to say that you don't know Jack about this religion.
"Have you destroyed your family yet? How many family members or friends have you hurt so far?"
No families have been destroyed by JWs. It is the non-JWs who destroy them.
Think about it.
If all in families served Jehovah, there would be happiness. But the opposite can not be true.
LOL, slave of satan.
You are absolutely 100% under cult control. One day you will realize how wrong you are. Hopefully that day will be sooner than later so that you can enjoy life as it was meant to be lived.
Ronde
You are not a JW its obvious, otherwise you would know that when I speak about 'they', I mean the hierarchy, the governing body, the rule makers, the faithful slave.
Its not very clever, (but quite predictable)that when I try to have civil discourse with you you try to sidetrack arguments with personal attacks and being pedantic when the posters here all know what I am talking about, except you, it seems.
However I have put my arguments out there, backed up by quotes from the Society's literature, which you have not addressed and I leave it to the readers of this blog to determine who makes the most sense.
I dont spew crap from the internet. I have written communication from the society in which they lied. I have my experiences of 40 years as a JW to know that they do not possess the truth about God.
I know who sound the most bitter, fanatical and nasty on this blog and it is not the ones who you label apostates. It is the defenders of the JW faith, the Gov Body, the Organization, the Society....'THEY'.
Steve,
you are missing the point.
I am not asking you who the 'they' are. I am asking you why you focus on them.
To me, there is no 'they'.
I get up in the morning, go to work.
And then go home. There is no they. There is only me and my faith. Three times a week we have meetings at the Kingdom Hall, there is no they. There is a group of people who study and discuss the Bible.
I think that people focus too much on the 'they' and not enough on themselves.
"However I have put my arguments out there, backed up by quotes from the Society's literature, which you have not addressed"
What is there for me to address? I didn't write it. It has nothing to do with me as a JW. It is what the overseers of the worldwide congregation want to communicate with the flock at a particular time. Again, not relevant to today.
I don't understand why people are so fascinated with the Watchtower and the literature. I prefer to listening to the brothers teach through audio rather than printed material. The Bible is simple and your diverting attention from it to the Watchtower shows that you can't deal with the Bible.
Like I said, you are not a Jehovah's Witness. If you are, then the other 7 million are not. I have never heard any JW talk like you, in all my years as one.
If you said some of the things to your body of elders that you have posted on this blog, you would find yourself in deep trouble with the hierarchy...maybe even disfellowshipped for apostate thinking.
Come and join us...I mean you are already disobeying the Gov Body by being here and having dialogue to evil apostates so why not go the whole hog and set yourself up as an Independent Jehovah's witness...or an Alternative Jehovah's Witness, because you are dangerously far removed from the mainstream.
Why do you focus so much on the Elders and governing body.? That is what stumbles you.
Follow Jesus, that is what I do. In fact that is what all other Jehovah's Witnesses do.
You ought to try it.
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