Monday, July 28, 2008

What Happened In Malawi?

Letter from Watchtower organization informing the Mexican brothers that it is okay to bribe officials so that they can be kept out of the military. Click on letter to enlarge it.


Why did the Society turned a blind eye to the Witnesses in Mexico and allowed them to obtain a "Cartilla" by bribing officials? To legally obtain the"Cartilla" one would have to serve a period of one year in military service. By bribing the officials the brothers in Mexico were not required to serve in the military.
The brothers in Malawi were not treated so well. They were forbidden to purchase the cards and so suffered mightily at the hands of the enemy.








The Jehovah's Witnesses refused to buy a political membership cards in Malawi's Congress Party, which was required by law because this was against the Watchtower Society's rules. As a result, many innocent people were tortured and murdered. The Government that caused these atrocities are definitely guilty, but the Society also is accountable before God for not allowing their people to exercise their conscience in these matters. The Society now says that Voting is up your conscience. Why was this not allowed with the innocent victims in Malawi?

Also, why has the Society turned a blind eye to the Witnesses in Mexico and allowed them to obtain a "Cartilla" by bribing officials. To legally obtain the"Cartilla" one would have to serve a period of one year in military service. Because the brothers thought they were doing Jehovah's will, they were raped, tortured and murdered.


14 comments:

Ronde said...

Why is this relevant to Jehovah's Witnesses?

Ronde said...

"Why did the Society turned a blind eye to the Witnesses in Mexico and allowed them to obtain a "Cartilla" by bribing officials?"

Why don't you write them and ask them?

zizugataki said...

ronde why are you so heartless we are talking about peoples life here we are not playing the wise gay.

kimmy jo said...

It is relevant to JW's because the letter was signed by the "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society" which is not affiliated with any other group than the JW's.
ronde, you are so angry, defensive and sarcastic and I might add...not a very loyal JW. You continue to separate yourself from your groups food source...the Watchtower.

Matthew said...

Ziz,

Sadly, Ronde's heartless attitude is very much typical Jehovah's Witness. In order to be a "successful" witness they have to endure a lot of pressure & fear from within the organization to stay enslaved. They need to learn to shun, to be terribly judgmental and to top it off they need a certain level of arrogance to "accept" the organization or pay the consequences.

I mean think about it, what kind of person would shun their own family because they have chosen to see the lies of a man-made organization and have left. How could a mother and father cut their own kids out of their lives. It isn't natural. So, they have to continue to remind themselves to be heartless in order to successfully shun their own child. All in the name of God? Absolutely not! All in the name of a man-made & governed organization.

Maybe they say and do whatever they can to protect themselves so they can sleep through the night.

If Ronde would actually step back for a second and subside his anger and illogic then they may truly see the wrong that is taking place every day by Jehovah's Witnesses. He/she won't though. That would make them vulnerable and life as they know it would drastically change for the better!

Don't you want to be free Ronde? Any other Jehovah's Witnesses patrolling these boards want to be truly free? You don't need an organization to identify with Jehovah.

Ronde said...

zizugataki,

What did I say that was heartless?

I just asked how the Malawi government's mistreating people is to be blamed on Jehovah's Witnesses or the Watchtower.

And that if he has a problem with what the Watchtower said, then he should be a man about it and take it up with them and not argue it in the court of public opinion.

Thus the heartless one is the blog owner because he wants the Malawi government to persecute people.

enigmatic said...

Matthew,

I think you make some excellent points. One of the things I regret is that there is so much emotional pain connected with these topics that some who have left make angry, emotionally charged comments back to people like Ronde that serve to justify his thinking.

Demonstrating the understanding of the situation as you did and the consistant message that you can be much happier out of the org is a good reflection of where we are and where they could be. They come in expecting to find evil and fight it out, but I believe that a calm, understanding approach will cause more to contemplate the reality more rationally and thus more effectively.

After all, those of us who are ex's were once in it too, and perhaps that is some of the pain we carry and that comes out when dealing with those still in because we want them desparately to see what is really happening. Give them time, I think there will be a lot of changes coming their way...

Best regards

Ronde said...

Kimmy Jo,

It is not relevant to Jehovah's Witnesses because each Witness is responsible for what s/he does and should not rely on the Watchtower or anyone else for advice or direction on what to do. One should not rely on the conscience of another.

Thus if I were in Malawi, I would refuse the card, not because I was following the Watchtower, but because I think that what Malawi was doing was wrong.

Ronde said...

Matthew:

"In order to be a "successful" witness they have to endure a lot of pressure & fear from within the organization to stay enslaved."

How are people in the congregation, enslaved?

The only fear is fear of God.

"They need to learn to shun,"

We don't learn to shun. We shun because the one shunned is not a person we would like to be around.


"to be terribly judgmental and to top it off they need a certain level of arrogance to "accept" the organization or pay the consequences."

That is not true at all. Nothing wrong with being judgmental. And there are no consequences of not accepting the organization.

"I mean think about it, what kind of person would shun their own family because they have chosen to see the lies of a man-made organization and have left."

Let's turn it around.

What kind of person would want to associate with family that has left Jehovah God? And if that one talks like you do, there is no communicating because that one is so dirty to see that they need to call the organization man made, as if that is relevant.

Why would we want to associate with bitter people like that.
It is not congregational shunning but

"How could a mother and father cut their own kids out of their lives."

Why don't you turn it around? Why did that kid turn away from the mother and father?

enigmatic said...

Ronde said...

It is not relevant to Jehovah's Witnesses because each Witness is responsible for what s/he does and should not rely on the Watchtower or anyone else for advice or direction on what to do.

And there are no consequences of not accepting the organization.

What kind of person would want to associate with family that has left Jehovah God? And if that one talks like you do, there is no communicating because that one is so dirty to see that they need to call the organization man made
----------------

ronde,

I find your comments to be of interest, if in fact you are in the org I'm sure your body of elders would find it interesting, too.

I am happy that you are satisfied with your current spiritual direction and do not view your volunteer work to be enslavement.

The bitterness with which you continue to address the blog contributors suggests, however, that you carry an unhealthy level of anger. In addition, many of your comments reflect a level of rationale and thought that suggests haste, strong bias, and inability to conceive an issue from the perspective of anyone but yourself.

If you have found that approach to serve you well then I wish you the best, although I admit that I am glad that I do not share the characteristics that you have either cultivated or are unfortunate enough to have inherited.

Best regards

Ronde said...

Enigmatic:

"I'm sure your body of elders would find it interesting, too."

I don't have a body of elders.
The congregation I attend has older men who serve as overseers who supervise the congregation, but I don't have a body of elders.


I don't have bitterness or anger. I just find that people, like you and the blog who need to lie to trash a religion, when their lies are not related to the religion is trashy of their own.

enigmatic said...

ronde,

As I said, I am glad that you are content with your current path, although from your comments it is often difficult to determine what exactly that path is.

Your comments do nothing but confirm my earlier impression of where you are emotionally and psychologically, but nonetheless, in fact especially dut to that, I wish you the best with your approach. I hope you continue to find meaning in your endeavors.

Best regards

Anonymous said...

This same defender is the person who'd support racism, and say it's ok for the organisation to treat black people as natural happy slaves. What hope is there for logical, calm discourse with such an individual? For individuals to hold such callous attitudes yet claim to hold divine favour is just sickening.

Nancy said...

This is very interesting. The idea of "why does a child turn against the parent" referring to a child who was raised a JW but recognizes it isn't "truth" is intriguing. To whom should Christians listen? Deuteronomy 18:15 To one like Moses that God raised up, Jesus. So to say that a person must listen only to the GB is opposed to God's will that we listen to the "fine shepherd".
How is the OP (original post) applicable to Jehovah's Witnesses faulty doctrine? In one case (Mexico) the WT provides a way to conceal the brothers, in the other case, the WT did not provide a way to be concealed. Why the discrepancy? People on the out side will wonder why one was favored over another. The correct understanding is God is not partial. The Bible is the authority? Acts 10:34. Why is the society not reflecting the Bible? Some one recognizes the Society is not reflecting the Bible and you, Ronda, think they should just suck it up? I'm three years late? Call me clueless. I worked on this all day. I couldn't find the scripture that says God was well pleased with the descendants of the man who would not drink alcohol, so they wouldn't.