Wednesday, October 22, 2008

Is The Watchtower Magazine Really Important?

Have you ever wondered why, if the Watchtower magazine is so full of vitally important information, it's written and produced six months in advance and then sits on the shelf for most of that six months until the information is published?
If the information in the magazine was really as important as they say it is, they would certainly post it on their web site the same day it's written. After all, it is supposed to be life saving information.
The information contained in the magazine isn't important enough for that. However, like all cults the donations received from the pulp paper magazine is the important thing.
The Watchtower is a publishing/media corporation with a gullible, superstitious market. First they found the market, now they are creating the market.
After decades of watching them, I have come to the conclusion that with the Watchtower it all comes down to two things: (1) They're a printing company; and (2) They're never right.

84 comments:

greg said...

Good point. I remember brothers saying the WT & Aw were like letters from Jehovah and that we should read them as soon as we get them, as we would a letter from a close friend. After over 20 years of reading them, i agree, they're never right.

steve said...

greg said...I remember brothers saying the WT & Aw were like letters from Jehovah and that we should read them as soon as we get them, as we would a letter from a close friend.


Oh, man! Not you too! I heard that one as well....many times. I guess the Watchtower is trying to convince its followers of the importance of its ever changing interpretation of scriptures and views on life.

Shawn said...

Well, not much has changed since the little haberdasher that could sold his menswear shop, bought a printing press and began waxing poetic about Jacob, Jesus and the Great Pyramid. There were no 'truths' published then and there aren't any now.

Voice of Reason said...

You are half right.

They are a printing company. That is what I keep telling you.

But they are not never right.

Shawn said...

"Voice of Reason said...

You are half right.

They are a printing company. That is what I keep telling you.

But they are not never right."

====================================

Actually, I have to side with VoR here. The Watchtower Society has been right about some things.

*** g 9/07 p. 27 Toothache—A History of Agony ***

Although Elizabeth I was queen of England, she could not escape toothache.
***

Whoa... that is so true.

*** g 7/07 p. 14 Does Anyone Have a Pencil? ***

In the 19th century, pencil making became big business.
***

*** g 1/06 p. 13 Mold—Friend and Foe! ***

Molds belong to the Fungi kingdom
***

How do they do it?! That is dead on.

*** g 6/06 p. 24 Silk—“The Queen of Fibers” ***

Silk is produced by silkworms
***

No way! This is incredible!

Oh wait, here's another truism from the Watchtower Society...

Aw, 10/8/1968, pg23
...those in times past who predicted an “end of the world”, even announcing a specific date...they were guilty of false prophesying.
***

So yes, the Watchtower Society does indeed print true statements. However, it doesn't really matter if they tell the truth about a Queen with a toothache, pencils, mold and silk. What does matter is whether they are(2 Timothy 2:15) . . .handling the word of the truth aright. In this, the Watchtower Society has a horrible record of deception, deceit and outright lies - Predicting the end of this system time and time a gain to scare honest-hearted people into spending as much time as possible knocking on doors so that Jehovah doesn't murder them at Armageddon.

Shame on them.

Anonymous said...

"They are a printing company."

Common ground!

Anonymous said...

Like the Gideons, only much worse.

Anonymous said...

Actually, the Watchtower is posted online as soon as it is Published. After it has been completed, the Writing Publishing Committee posts it on the JW Media Website, which is open to the public.
Get your facts straight.

Brian said...

http://www.jw.org/

Visit that site to view the releases that have yet to be shipped.

Anonymous said...

Some JW with hurt feelings wrote: "as soon as it is Published"

They aren't published until months after they're written.

How's that for facts?

Anonymous said...

"They aren't published until months after they're written. "

How do you know when they are written? Are you there in the writing dept?

But then next Sunday's Watchtower study is 2 years old as it is taken from the 2006 DC talk.

greg said...

The latest new light on the generation was published in 1927. Not exactly hot off the press is it?

Sheeplike said...

The Watchtower magazine and the other publications are Bible based. They have never been intended to take the place of the Bible.

All of the Witnesses, recognize that the Bible is the 'main textbook'. This is the position from the FDS.

I think the Witnesses have a well deserved reputation for using scriptures to answer all questions.

Some of y'all are just fault finders. Why don't you come up with something refreshing and scriptural? The more I think, reason, study, and pray, the more I see that only JW's are preaching Good News.

Anonymous said...

sheeplike wrote: "I think the Witnesses have a well deserved reputation for using scriptures to answer all questions"

If you could point me to the Scripture indicating that Jehovah's Witnesses/Watchtower/Rutherford were selected as God's Organization in 1918/1919, I would believe you.

If you can show me the Scripture that indicates that Oral Sex between married couples is a sin, I would very much appreciate it.

Let me repeat this, as you may have never thought about it. When I was a JW, I never thought about it:

YOUR ENTIRE RELIGION IS BASED UPON A "UNIQUE INTERPRETATION" OF SCRIPTURE.

This is no different than any Christian religion.

Anonymous said...

As a matter of fact, I did work at Bethel. The magazines don't magically arrive at the Kingdom Hall. They come from Writing, to the Graphics Dept, to the Pressroom.

It's not magic. They're written months before they are published.

In the case of convention releases -- YEARS before they are released.

Voice of Reason said...

"If you could point me to the Scripture indicating that Jehovah's Witnesses/Watchtower/Rutherford were selected as God's Organization in 1918/1919, I would believe you."

We don't say that is the case. We say that there has been a great cloud of witnesses since Abel.

"If you can show me the Scripture that indicates that Oral Sex between married couples is a sin, I would very much appreciate it."

Romano 1:1. Thou shall not suck on another's tailpipe.

"YOUR ENTIRE RELIGION IS BASED UPON A "UNIQUE INTERPRETATION" OF SCRIPTURE."

And that is what makes us good.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"If you could point me to the Scripture indicating that Jehovah's Witnesses/Watchtower/Rutherford were selected as God's Organization in 1918/1919, I would believe you."

We don't say that is the case. We say that there has been a great cloud of witnesses since Abel.

Really VoR, for you it's more of a fog than a cloud. Oh yeah... here's where the Watchtower Society disagrees with you...

*** w67 10/1 p. 590 par. 19 Finding Freedom with Jehovah’s Visible Organization ***

19 Evidences are now conclusive that Jesus Christ was enthroned in heaven in 1914 C.E. and that he accompanied Jehovah to his temple in 1918 C.E., when judgment began with the house of God. (1 Pet. 4:17) After cleansing those belonging to this house who were alive on earth, Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibility of serving as his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah’s visible theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept this appointment of the “faithful and discreet slave” and be submissive to it.
***


"If you can show me the Scripture that indicates that Oral Sex between married couples is a sin, I would very much appreciate it."

Romano 1:1. Thou shall not suck on another's tailpipe.

Well since you pull JW doctrine out of your tailpipe, why not start making up your own books of the bible?

"YOUR ENTIRE RELIGION IS BASED UPON A "UNIQUE INTERPRETATION" OF SCRIPTURE."

And that is what makes us good.

No, that's what makes you an apocalyptic dispensationalist as opposed to a Christian.

Anonymous said...

Excellent responses Shawn - I see that Ronde has met his match.

What a disturbed individual Ronde is...

I still believe there is hope for him though.

I really think he sees the holes in his religion because he distances himself from the numerous "errors" appearing in The Watchtower publications/teachings which have been quoted on this web-blog as well as the many critical sites of JW's religion.

Ronde... you'll be with us pretty soon because you'll hit that point where you realize if they (the GB) have been wrong about this and that, what else are they wrong about.

You see, you forever are left asking that question - what else are they wrong about? - because the errors continue and the reason they continue is because they are not who they say they are.

And, it's not like they get the interpretation wrong the first time and then get it right the next time. They keep changing their understanding/interpretation (i.e. generation) because they are just guessing. Once you realize that, then the light really goes on in your head.

For many, this leaves a void because they have been taught that JW's is the true religion. They aren't... they are just another religion that THINKS its religion is the truth.

Voice of Reason said...

Shawn said:"'Romano 1:1. Thou shall not suck on another's tailpipe.'

Well since you pull JW doctrine out of your tailpipe, why not start making up your own books of the bible?"

Apparently you never watch ER.
You have such a narrow perspective. That is what you get when you limit your information to that which is in the Watchtower.

Anonymous said...

'Apparently you never watch ER.
You have such a narrow perspective. That is what you get when you limit your information to that which is in the Watchtower.'

Welcome to the other side VOR, Glad to have you with us!

Voice of Reason said...

I'll never join you.

I'll never go to the dark side.

Darth Vader said...

Voice of Reason said...
I'll never join you.
I'll never go to the dark side.


But, I'm your father.

Old Lady said...

I don't trust Ronde.

He's an Arab.

McCain said...

No, ma'am," "He's a decent, family man, a citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with."

Anonymous said...

Failed Predictions:
http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/1800s.htm

Great list.

jwproclaimers said...

Most Accurate Information

http://www.jwproclaimers.org/

Great site

Shawn said...

jwproclaimers said...

Most Accurate Information

http://www.jwproclaimers.org/

Great site
===================================

Really the most biased site run by rogue JW Steve Klemetti who, like VoR/Ronde runs against Watchtower Society policy.

Anonymous said...

http://www.jwfacts.com/

jwproclaimers said...

Shawn, How can the site be biased if it contains District conventions, circuit assemblies, public talks, and other talks given at the meetings.

That is where Jehovah's Witnesses learn. That is information from JWs themselves. People who understand it, where as the biased information is form the ones who do not understand it.

How do you know who runs it? You are not a member of it are you? Or are you violating Proverbs 18:13
"When anyone is replying to a matter before he hears [it], that is foolishness on his part and a humiliation."

Anonymous said...

jwproclaimers wrote: "That is where Jehovah's Witnesses learn"

Yes, and that's the problem. Scriptures alone are sufficient for Christians.

A man on a deserted island, with just a Bible, can find and accept Christ.

Shawn said...

jwproclaimers said...

Shawn, How can the site be biased if it contains District conventions, circuit assemblies, public talks, and other talks given at the meetings.

That is where Jehovah's Witnesses learn. That is information from JWs themselves. People who understand it, where as the biased information is form the ones who do not understand it.

Actually, the outlines for the talks are written by the Watchtower Society and for key District Convention parts the talks are actually written word for word and merely read aloud.

How do you know who runs it?
I know because Steve and I have had discussions about his site.

You are not a member of it are you? Or are you violating Proverbs 18:13
"When anyone is replying to a matter before he hears [it], that is foolishness on his part and a humiliation."

Actually you are the one who has replied to a matter before he hears it. I have been a member, but found that it's just more reprocessed Watchtower Society doctrine. Really I can get that at the local Hall.

Voice of Reason said...

"Yes, and that's the problem. Scriptures alone are sufficient for Christians. "

Oh really?

Then why haven't they been sufficient?

Anonymous said...

Ronde wrote: "Then why haven't they been sufficient?"

They have, which is my point.

Anonymous said...

'No, ma'am," "He's a decent, family man, a citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with."'

He has never had a family. His bizarre, cold-hearted statements on this blog blaming parents and children for child abuse show he has never had children.

Rondes shadow said...

Ronde
Your a child molester approver.
You can make elder yet.

Such an idiot

Sheeplike said...

I think that we should all agree to practice the principle in this scripture:

1 PETER 3:15 "But sanctify the Christ as Lord in YOUR hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone that demands of YOU a reason for the hope in YOU, but doing so together with a mild temper and deep respect".

The Witnesses can back up their beliefs with scripture. The kingdom government, condition of the dead, the resurrection, no hellfire, God's name, etc, etc.

Anonymous said...

sheeplike wrote: "The Witnesses can back up their beliefs with scripture"

Find the nearest Baptist church in your neighborhood or any graduate of a theological seminary, and they can support their beliefs from Scripture.

You have the exact same thing that all other religions have: A UNIQUE INTERPRETATION of SCRIPTURE.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm still waiting to hear for your Scriptural support of (1) accepting hemoglobin transfusions, but no plasma, (2) forbidding oral sex to married couples, (3) preaching that your religion was selected by Jesus -- above all other religions -- in 1918/1919 (4) support for a minimum six-month book study and more than a hundred questions to qualify for baptism and (5) proof that Daniel's prophecy has anything to do with what is written in Luke, in other words your Gentile Times doctrine/1914.

I could keep going, but those are the ones that pop to mind.

Sheeplike said...

To respond to Anonymous:

To answer point 1, concerning blood, please read Gen. 9:4&16, Lev. 17:14, Acts 15:28-29,and Acts 21:25.

Whole blood is not to be consumed- that is what God said, not just the 'society'. Fractions are a conscience matter.

To point 2, oral sex in marriage. Many times in print, it is said that the elders cannot pry into the sex life of a married couple. A married couple cannot be disfellowshipped over it, but a UNMARRIED couple could be, depending on if they show repentance.

I can answer the others, but I have to stop for now. I'm hungry.

Anonymous said...

sheeplike wrote: "Whole blood is not to be consumed- that is what God said, not just the 'society'. Fractions are a conscience matter."

Sir, I need the Bible Book, Chapter and Verse that discusses 'whole' blood and also blood 'fractions'.

I need a straight answer on oral sex. I'm not interested in whether the elders are going to interrogate me. WHAT DOES GOD THINK ABOUT ORAL SEX BETWEEN A MARRIED COUPLE. Your publications say that it is "perverted" and "unnatural" and "wrong". Where can I find this in the Bible. I need a clean conscience before God, not men.

Thank you.

jwproclaimers said...

Shawn,

Rogue JW? There are 3000 in the group that benefit from all of Jehovah's provisions including elders. All of them are rogue?
Well all of them are learning things about Jehovah's Witnesses and the Bible that you will never know because you just wish to attack the Watchtower. Why? Because you can.
jwfacts teaches nothing about JWs. Beth Sarim, UN NGO, no talks have mentioned those things as they are not about Jehovah's Witnesses. Never heard the phrase "Watchtower Organization" or "Watchtower Society Organization" in any talks. Thus you all attack the Watchtower, based on your misinterpreted and misapplied understandings and quotes because you can't deal with Jehovah's Witnesses.

Voice of Reason said...

anon said:
"I'm still waiting to hear for your Scriptural support of (1) accepting hemoglobin transfusions, but no plasma,"

What people accept is up to them.
But we as a people do not accept blood transfusions which include red blood and white blood and plasma and platelets. That is abstaining from blood. The 4 main components. And medical science is what separates those not us.

" (2) forbidding oral sex to married couples, "

It is not forbidden. It is just not clean.

"(3) preaching that your religion was selected by Jesus -- above all other religions -- in 1918/1919 "

We do not preach that. We preach that our religion was selected by Jesus in 33 CE.

"(4) support for a minimum six-month book study and more than a hundred questions to qualify for baptism and (5) "

We do not teach that. We teach a maximum of 6 month systematic study. Some may require more. The questions are to make sure that the person understands matters. How can that be a bad thing?


"proof that Daniel's prophecy has anything to do with what is written in Luke, in other words your Gentile Times doctrine/1914."

Proof? Whatever happened to faith?

Read 2 Samuel 7 where Nathan gave David the covenant for a kingdom and he said that his seed would rule on Jehovah's throne forever. His seed did rule until Nebuchadnezzer removed the king of Judah from a sovereign rulership in 607. But that was not permanent. As Daniel said, for 7 times or 2520 years, the gentiles would rule, then Jesus would resume rulership on Jehovah's throne but in the heavenly Jerusalem.

Voice of Reason said...

anon then said:
"Sir, I need the Bible Book, Chapter and Verse that discusses 'whole' blood and also blood 'fractions'."

No you don't. You just want to argue.

"I need a straight answer on oral sex. WHAT DOES GOD THINK ABOUT ORAL SEX BETWEEN A MARRIED COUPLE. "

No you don't need a straight answer, you just want to argue. Reasonable people understand why God made body parts and what happens. Putting one's mouth on a part where waste products come out is not clean. But people can still do that even though it is against God's purpose. It is their choice.

"Your publications say that it is "perverted" and "unnatural" and "wrong". "

It is perverted and unnatural and the basis for that is in the publications if you would read them for the reasons. But that does not make it wrong. What is perverted to one may not be to another. The apostle Paul called many things bad but that did not make them wrong. He was trying to raise the bar for Christians, not declare right and wrong.

Anonymous said...

Ronde wrote: "[insert babble here]"

Thank you for confirming you have zero Scriptural support for your UNIQUE INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE.

Again, you have the same thing that every other religion has. Nothing more, nothing less.

My faith is based upon Scripture and Christ, not what is written in the Watchtower magazine.

Voice of Reason said...

Anon,

I don't see any messages by Ronde in this blog.

"Thank you for confirming you have zero Scriptural support for your UNIQUE INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE."

You,know. The scriptural support has been discussed many times you should know it. Acts 15:20,28.

As to oral sex, it is not about scripture. Does one need to read statutes about stop signs to know why they are there and should be obeyed. Be reasonable.

"Again, you have the same thing that every other religion has. Nothing more, nothing less."

No, we have people who follow God's word and want to serve him. Other religions do neither.

"My faith is based upon Scripture and Christ, not what is written in the Watchtower magazine. "

Why do you place them at odds. We have Christ, scripture, the Watchtower Magazine and much more than that. That is why you are suffering as you do not have any of those.

Shawn said...

jwproclaimers said...

Shawn,

Rogue JW? There are 3000 in the group that benefit from all of Jehovah's provisions including elders. All of them are rogue?

I'm calling you on your straw-man argument. I never said all 3000 who signed up for this unofficial web site are 'rogue JWs', I said that Steve Klemetti is a rogue JW for setting up and maintaining a web site about JWs specifically against the direction of the Watchtower Society.

Well all of them are learning things about Jehovah's Witnesses and the Bible that you will never know because you just wish to attack the Watchtower. Why? Because you can.

The Watchtower Society lists only two sources where Jehovah's Witnesses get their information.

*** w98 6/1 p. 23 Shouldering Responsibility for Family Care ***

Jehovah’s motherlike organization diligently fulfills its responsibility to prepare delightful spiritual meals served through its publications and at the meetings of the more than 85,000 Christian congregations worldwide
***

It doesn't say 'through its publications, at the meetings and through Steve Klemetti's web site.

So how does the Watchtower Society view internet forums for JWs?

*** g05 10/22 p. 18 Chat Rooms—How Can I Avoid the Dangers? ***

Chat rooms are usually organized according to topics that attract certain groups of people. Some might be set up for enthusiasts of a particular sport or hobby. Others may be devoted to discussing a television show. Still others might cater to people claiming to belong to a particular religion.

If you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, curiosity might prompt you to visit a chat room that claims to be a place where Witness youths from around the world can make new friends. Finding friends among youths who share your faith is a desirable goal. However, these chat rooms harbor insidious dangers for Christians. What kind of dangers?

Introducing Moral Corruption

“I was in a chat room with a group of people who I thought were all Jehovah’s Witnesses,” says a youth named Tyler. “After a while, though, some of these people started disparaging our beliefs. Before long, it was evident that they were really apostates.” They were individuals who deliberately tried to undermine the morals of those who they claimed were their fellow believers.

God’s Son, Jesus Christ, warned that some of those who followed him would turn on their companions. (Matthew 24:48-51; Acts 20:29, 30) The apostle Paul called such individuals in his time false brothers and says that they “sneaked in” to do harm to those in the Christian congregation. (Galatians 2:4) The Bible writer Jude says that they “slipped in” with the goal of “turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct.” (Jude 4) He also describes them as “rocks hidden below water.”—Jude 12.

Notice that both Paul and Jude identify the stealthy methods often used by apostates. These Bible writers noted that the apostates “sneaked in” or “slipped in” with the purpose of morally corrupting those in the Christian congregation. Today, chat rooms offer such corrupt ones the perfect cloak for their devious endeavors. Like rocks hidden below water, these false Christians mask their real intent beneath a pretense of concern for Witness youths. But their goal is to shipwreck the faith of unwary ones.—1 Timothy 1:19, 20.

This journal, as well as other material produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses, has repeatedly warned of this particular danger. Therefore, anyone you meet in a chat room ostensibly set up for Jehovah’s Witnesses is, at best, a person who disregards such counsel. Do you really want as friends those who choose to downplay Bible-based direction?—Proverbs 3:5, 6; 15:5.
***

That was not exactly a glowing recommendation for JW themed web sites.

*** w93 8/1 p. 17 par. 10 Let No One Spoil Your Useful Habits ***

10 Modern computers have opened other avenues to bad association. Some commercial firms enable subscribers using a computer and a telephone to send a message to electronic bulletin boards; a person can thus post on the bulletin board a message that is open to all subscribers. This has led to so-called electronic debates on religious matters. A Christian might be drawn into such debates and may spend many hours with an apostate thinker who may have been disfellowshipped from the congregation. The direction at 2 John 9-11 underscores Paul’s fatherly counsel about avoiding bad associations.
***

So, even though Steve thinks he's awsome for setting up this site, the Watchtower Society isn't very happy about it.



jwfacts teaches nothing about JWs. Beth Sarim, UN NGO, no talks have mentioned those things as they are not about Jehovah's Witnesses.

No talks mention these things because they are an embarrassment to the organization. You also don't hear about how many child molesters the Society has protected during the talks.

Never heard the phrase "Watchtower Organization" or "Watchtower Society Organization" in any talks. Thus you all attack the Watchtower, based on your misinterpreted and misapplied understandings and quotes because you can't deal with Jehovah's Witnesses.

First of all, no one said there was the exact phrase "Watchtower Organization" or "Watchtower Society Organization" - that's just another straw-man argument. Secondly, the quotes I post are complete with their surrounding context, so they aren't misapplied. Third, I attack the Watchtower Society because this high-control group is the real villain here, not individual Jehovah's Witnesses. Jehovah's Witnesses are the Watchtower Society's victims.

I point out the dishonesty of the Watchtower Society to help Jehovah's Witnesses see the actual truth about the organization that keeps them in fear of being murdered by God if they don't do everything the Watchtower Society says.

Anonymous said...

Ronde wrote: "it is not about scripture"

Epic failure.

When a kangaroo court of "Christian elders" is questioning you in private, it is most certainly ABOUT SCRIPTURE. They are the ones that make something that should NOT be about Scripture, into something Scriptural.

They over-reach their authority and drag themselves into the personal lives of couples.

The Bible is silent on the topic, yet these imperfect men insist on making it their business.

Again, please provide ANY Scriptural support for calling oral sex between married couples "perverted" and "unnatural".

I will live my life as guided by the Bible, not by YOUR opinion or the opinion of the authors of the Watchtower magazine.

Christians follow Christ. They do not allow their consciences to be replaced by humans.

With the blood, provide Scriptural evidence that it is improper to save one's life using plasma, but a conscience matter to save one's life using hemoglobin.

If the only acceptable use of blood is to pour it on the ground, hemoglobin and cloting Factor VIII (commonly used by JW hemophiliacs) would not be available.

JWs are ethical hypocrites. They save their lives by using the blood donated by others. They themselves are unwilling to donate blood.

http://www.jwfacts.com/

jwproclaimers said...

Shawn
"this unofficial web site are 'rogue JWs', for setting up and maintaining a web site about JWs specifically against the direction of the Watchtower Society."

You are still wrong. The Watchtower Society has no jurisdiction over such matters. And it is official, after all,what is more official than the meetings and assemblies.

"through its publications and at the meetings "

Meetings are an official means of spiritual food as you stated. Thus there are meetings and assembly talks posted.

"So how does the Watchtower Society view internet forums for JWs?"

Well, it is not an internet forum or chat room so that is irrelevant.

"No talks mention these things because they are an embarrassment to the organization. You also don't hear about how many child molesters the Society has protected during the talks."

No, talks don't mention UN NGO because it is not related to the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses. Talks don't mention Beth Sarim or Michael the archangel, but people bring that up as a stumbling point. Not relevant.
Actually there are many that talks that deal with the subject of child abuse and how to deal with it and protect one's in the congregation, but they do not say that the Watchtower protects any abusers because the Watchtower does not protect anyone and the talks are not dealing with the Watchtower.

"First of all, no one said there was the exact phrase "Watchtower Organization" or "Watchtower Society Organization"

It is presented here and on many sites many times, though it is inaccurate and misleading.

If you are so up on the Watchtower, have you read the In February 22 1976 Awake?

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

anon said:
"I'm still waiting to hear for your Scriptural support of (1) accepting hemoglobin transfusions, but no plasma,"

What people accept is up to them.
But we as a people do not accept blood transfusions which include red blood and white blood and plasma and platelets. That is abstaining from blood. The 4 main components. And medical science is what separates those not us.

The scripture specifically forbid eating blood especially as a form of ritual, which was practiced throughout the Roman empire not only during religious observations but also after gladiatorial games.

The scriptures do not forbid tissue transplants, which is what blood transfusions are. Organ transplants were once banned by the Watchtower Society as being a form of cannibalism, but that has since been over turned.

So why is an organ transplant not considered 'eating an organ' while a blood transfusion is considered eating blood? This erroneous doctrine has cost the lives of many loyal Jehovah's Witnesses over the years. The Watchtower Society has a tremendous amount of blood guilt for this alone.


" (2) forbidding oral sex to married couples, "

It is not forbidden. It is just not clean.

So what your saying is that the Watchtower Society has no business calling oral sex "perverted" and "unclean" because they do not have a scriptural basis for their claim.

Putting one's mouth on a part where waste products come out is not clean. But people can still do that even though it is against God's purpose.

Actually, a person's mouth harbors much more bacteria that clean genitals. In fact, in a healthy person, urine is actually sterile. So your argument about the cleanliness of oral sex is baseless. Additionally, the Bible says absolutely nothing about 'God's purpose' vis-a-vis oral sex. The Watchtower Society is merely (once again) exercizing arbitrary control over the most intimate aspects of their members' lives.


"(3) preaching that your religion was selected by Jesus -- above all other religions -- in 1918/1919 "

We do not preach that. We preach that our religion was selected by Jesus in 33 CE.

Actually, the Watchtower Society does teach that they were selected by Christ in 1918/1919.

*** w07 4/1 p. 22 par. 5 Loyal to Christ and His Faithful Slave ***

“On arriving” to inspect the “slave” in 1918, Christ found a spirit-anointed remnant of faithful disciples who since 1879 had been using this journal and other Bible-based publications to provide spiritual “food at the proper time.” He acknowledged them as his collective instrument, or “slave,” and in 1919 entrusted them with the management of all his earthly belongings.
***

Please look up what Jehovah's Witnesses believe before you embarrass yourself in front of the rest of us who actually know Watchtower Society doctrine. Additionally, the Watchtower Society admits that they have no scriptural basis for their claims around 1918...


*** w07 1/1 p. 28 par. 12 “The First Resurrection”—Now Under Way ***

12 At this point, it may be helpful to consider what might be viewed as a Bible parallel. Jesus Christ was anointed as the future King of God’s Kingdom in the fall of 29 C.E. Three and a half years later, in the spring of 33 C.E., he was resurrected as a mighty spirit person. Could it, then, be reasoned that since Jesus was enthroned in the fall of 1914, the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began three and a half years later, in the spring of 1918? That is an interesting possibility. Although this cannot be directly confirmed in the Bible, it is not out of harmony with other scriptures that indicate that the first resurrection got under way soon after Christ’s presence began.
***


"(4) support for a minimum six-month book study and more than a hundred questions to qualify for baptism and (5) "

We do not teach that. We teach a maximum of 6 month systematic study. Some may require more. The questions are to make sure that the person understands matters. How can that be a bad thing?


*** w06 4/1 p. 22 par. 4 ‘Go and Make Disciples, Baptizing Them’ ***

4 Clearly, Jesus intended for his disciples to have a solid foundation for their faith before they would get baptized. He instructed his followers not only to go and make disciples but also to teach them ‘to observe all the things he had commanded.’ (Matthew 7:24, 25; Ephesians 3:17-19) Therefore, those who qualify for baptism have usually studied the Bible for months or even a year or two, so that their decision is neither hasty nor ill-informed
***

The funny thing is that the supporting scriptures don't support the Watchtower Society's quiz.

(Matthew 7:24-26) 24 “Therefore everyone that hears these sayings of mine and does them will be likened to a discreet man, who built his house upon the rock-mass. 25 And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and lashed against that house, but it did not cave in, for it had been founded upon the rock-mass.

No quiz mentioned, just that a Christian needs to listen to Christ's teachings and do them. It doesn't say you need to study someone's books for months or years.

(Ephesians 3:14-19) 14 On account of this I bend my knees to the Father, 15 to whom every family in heaven and on earth owes its name, 16 to the end that he may grant YOU according to the riches of his glory to be made mighty in the man YOU are inside with power through his spirit, 17 to have the Christ dwell through [YOUR] faith in YOUR hearts with love; that YOU may be rooted and established on the foundation, 18 in order that YOU may be thoroughly able to grasp mentally with all the holy ones what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge, that YOU may be filled with all the fullness that God gives.

No quiz mandate there either, only a supplication that the Holy Spirit would help Christians grasp God's love.

*** w96 1/15 p. 17 par. 9 Jehovah’s Sheep Need Tender Care ***

9 As an unbaptized publisher progresses spiritually, he may make a dedication to God in prayer and want to be baptized. (Compare Mark 1:9-11.) He should make his desire for baptism known to the congregation’s presiding overseer, who will arrange for elders to review with the publisher the questions on pages 175 to 218 of Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry. The four parts into which the questions are divided may be covered in three sessions by three different elders if possible. If they agree that the unbaptized publisher has a reasonable understanding of Bible teachings and qualifies in other ways, they will tell him that he may be baptized. As a result of his dedication and baptism, he becomes ‘marked’ for salvation.—Ezekiel 9:4-6.
***

Again, no scriptural support for long study periods and quizes before dedication.



"proof that Daniel's prophecy has anything to do with what is written in Luke, in other words your Gentile Times doctrine/1914."

Proof? Whatever happened to faith?
(Acts 17:11) 11 Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thes‧sa‧lo‧ni′ca, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.

Critical examination of the claims of uninspired men is a recommended in the scriptures.


Read 2 Samuel 7 where Nathan gave David the covenant for a kingdom and he said that his seed would rule on Jehovah's throne forever. His seed did rule until Nebuchadnezzer removed the king of Judah from a sovereign rulership in 607. But that was not permanent. As Daniel said, for 7 times or 2520 years, the gentiles would rule, then Jesus would resume rulership on Jehovah's throne but in the heavenly Jerusalem.

Sorry, that prophesy was fulfilled when the temple was rebuilt after Cyrus restored the Jews to their homeland. There is absolutely no support for a 'second fulfillment' of this prophesy. This is a dispensationalist concept that has no basis in scripture. David didn't say that the seven times was 2520 years, the dispensationalists like C.T.Russell did... and they were wrong.

Anonymous said...

jw proclaimers wrote: "No, talks don't mention UN NGO because it is not related to the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses"

Double standard?

If what you say is true, it would also be accurate to say that Jehovah's Witness leaders going to jail, and supposedly fulfilling Bible prophecy, is NOT related to your religion.

You cannot have it both ways. Either what your religious leaders do is relevant, or it is not.

It would appear that you are playing word games, like Ronde.

You can share this British news article with your householders and see what they think about it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/oct/08/religion.world

Shawn said...

jwproclaimers said...

Shawn
"this unofficial web site are 'rogue JWs', for setting up and maintaining a web site about JWs specifically against the direction of the Watchtower Society."

You are still wrong. The Watchtower Society has no jurisdiction over such matters. And it is official, after all,what is more official than the meetings and assemblies.

Fine, show me where the Watchtower Society says that it's acceptable to set up a web site promoting or for Jehovah's Witnesses, because all I've managed to find is one article after another that speaks against such sites.

jwproclaimers said...

anon wrote:
"jw proclaimers wrote: "No, talks don't mention UN NGO because it is not related to the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses"

"Double standard?
If what you say is true, it would also be accurate to say that Jehovah's Witness leaders going to jail, and supposedly fulfilling Bible prophecy, is NOT related to your religion."
You cannot have it both ways. Either what your religious leaders do is relevant, or it is not."

What the people do following the religion is relevant because it is following the religion. When Israel was faithful and followed the law of Jehovah, that supported the Law of Jehovah, the religion.

But when they were unfaithful, that did not take away from the religion because Jehovah was still the same, that just mean that they chose to be unfaithful to it, and they were an example of unfaithfulness.

Same today. When JWs do not follow the religion (The WTS is not the religion, just a means of proclaiming the religion) and bad things happen that does not speak badly on the religion, that just means that people made choices and they are an example of unfaithfulness. For example, if a Witness chooses to drink and drive, that does not reflect badly on the religion because s/he chose to not obey the religion. It speaks of free will.

Anonymous said...

sheeplike,

Does Jehovah write the Watchtower magazine? Or, does a FOLLOWER write the Watchtower magazine?

Shawn said...

jwproclaimers said...

anon wrote:
"jw proclaimers wrote: "No, talks don't mention UN NGO because it is not related to the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses"

"Double standard?
If what you say is true, it would also be accurate to say that Jehovah's Witness leaders going to jail, and supposedly fulfilling Bible prophecy, is NOT related to your religion."
You cannot have it both ways. Either what your religious leaders do is relevant, or it is not."

What the people do following the religion is relevant because it is following the religion. When Israel was faithful and followed the law of Jehovah, that supported the Law of Jehovah, the religion.

But when they were unfaithful, that did not take away from the religion because Jehovah was still the same, that just mean that they chose to be unfaithful to it, and they were an example of unfaithfulness.

Same today. When JWs do not follow the religion (The WTS is not the religion, just a means of proclaiming the religion) and bad things happen that does not speak badly on the religion, that just means that people made choices and they are an example of unfaithfulness. For example, if a Witness chooses to drink and drive, that does not reflect badly on the religion because s/he chose to not obey the religion. It speaks of free will.

Sorry, but there are two HUGE differences between the Watchtower Society and Israel. First of all, when Israel did not 'follow the religion', God punished them - all of them as a group. How is God punishing Jehovah's Witnesses for joining Babylon the Great?

Second, the doctrine of the UN being the central organization of Babylon the Great is not a scriptural teaching. It's the mad rantings of 'Judge' Rutherford, president of the Watchtower Society.

The thing that 'reflects bad on the religion' is that they first make up the religion as they go along with 'flashes of new light' that are not truly based on the scriptures, then they hypocritically join the 'Satanic' organization that they claim is the center of Babylon the Great!

Their own words condemn them...

*** w91 1/15 p. 26 The Pure Language Unites a Great Crowd of Worshipers ***

The talk that followed, entitled “Their Refuge—A Lie!,” contained the stern warning: Just as ancient Judah’s trusting in Egypt proved to be a vain refuge, so will be Christendom’s alliance with political powers of our day.
***

Anonymous said...

Duh!

The Watchtower / Awake magazines are written in advanced so they can send it through out the branches around the world for translation to different languages. Once all translations done, everything will be simultaneously published.

Sheeplike said...

Double Standard

So many here post things from the old days of Judge Rutherford and Pastor Russell- but it is unrelated to Witnesses today. Over time, more and more of 'christian falsehoods' were done away with.

The Light gets brighter. That is something to be happy about, since Bible truth is refreshing.

Falsehoods that come from Satan, such as hellfire, and the mysterious trinity, are not.

steve said...

2 days ago my friend who left the JWs 7 years ago was contacted by an elder acting for the body of elders.

He was asked very solemnly, like the elder was reading it script, 'WHAT IS YOUR CURRENT VIEW OF THE WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY?'

He was asked that specific question, because if he had answered that he didnt believe it was Gods channel, he would have been disfellowshipped as an apostate.

Notice he was not asked, 'What is your current view of the Bible or Jehovah, but of the Society.

So stop playing word games... everyone who is or has been a JW knows what is meant by the words Society, Organization, JWs, and that sying you have issues with the 'society' can get you kicked out.

You are like a broken record.

Anonymous said...

sheeplike, I implore you to re-examine the 'Light Gets Brighter' philosphy of your religion -- with an honest heart.

John 16:13 "However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming."

At John 16:13, Jesus was referring to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. Jesus did not refer to partial or incorrect truth; the Spirit would reveal truth, including "things coming". As discussed in the section on dates, the Watchtower Society has had a 100% failure rate in predicting things "coming" with accuracy.

Rather than extract a sentence, in entirety the context of Proverbs chapter 4 is a comparison of behaviour between good and bad people, not the revealing of doctrinal truth through an organization. The surrounding verses say, "the wicked …do not sleep unless they do badness. … The way of the wicked ones is like the gloom; they have not known at what they keep stumbling… listen to the discipline of a father … keep my commandments … safeguard your heart." For thousands of years people have understood this scripture to be discussing behaviour.

No one questions that individual Jehovah's Witnesses or even individual members of the Governing Body have to have perfect understanding. The issue is whether the Governing Body operates under guidance of Holy Spirit as a collective group, after prayer. Does Jehovah direct what appears in the Watchtower journals? Rather than suggesting that Apostles made mistakes ask "What percentage of the Apostles writings in the Bible are wrong?" Zero percent. "What percentage of Watchtower statements has been wrong?" The difference being, the Apostles were directed by God, the Governing Body is not.

spiritualbrother said...

Also regarding the lighter getting brighter teaching, how does it explain the flip flopping on certain teachings of the organization? Such as the issue of whether the people of Sodom and Gomorrah will be resurrected or not. Does going back and forth indicate that light is getting brighter?

Shawn said...

Sheeplike said...

Double Standard

So many here post things from the old days of Judge Rutherford and Pastor Russell- but it is unrelated to Witnesses today.

Wait. The Watchtower Society has no problem casting scathing aspersions on the clergy of Christendom for the lies they have told in the past... and by past I'm talking about the 2nd century. If what Chistendom has done in the past 2000 years is relevant, then what the Watchtower Society has done in the past 100 years is relevant.

Over time, more and more of 'christian falsehoods' were done away with.

The Light gets brighter. That is something to be happy about, since Bible truth is refreshing.

Bible truth may be refreshing, but it is constant. It doesn't change; it isn't revealed over the years to a group of men in New York.

Falsehoods that come from Satan, such as hellfire, and the mysterious trinity, are not.

The Watchtower Society has you thinking the way they want you to, namely; If it isn't a Watchtower Society teaching, it's from Satan. It just so happens that the Bible cannon we have now was cannonized by people who believed the Jesus was Jehovah. There were lots of gospels and letters from prominent Christians at the time. The early church fathers chose those that actually say that Jesus is divine.

greg said...

Another example that surely disproves 'the light gets brighter' theory is 'the generation' teaching. As we know, the current interpretation, put forth as increased light on the matter is actually the same as the interpretation given by the WT in 1927. So if the current understanding is correct, it was right in 1927, the light went out for 80 years, then in february the light went back on. Even so, the change in 1995 was also described as increased light, even though, according to JW's today, that interpretation was completely wrong.

kimmy jo said...

shawn says it correctly,
"Wait. The Watchtower Society has no problem casting scathing aspersions on the clergy of Christendom for the lies they have told in the past... and by past I'm talking about the 2nd century. If what Christendom has done in the past 2000 years is relevant, then what the Watchtower Society has done in the past 100 years is relevant.
Their own words condemn them..."

he continues,
"Sorry, but there are two HUGE differences between the Watchtower Society and Israel. First of all, when Israel did not 'follow the religion', God punished them - all of them as a group. How is God punishing Jehovah's Witnesses for joining Babylon the Great?"
.........

Great points shawn. Don't you think that the Watchtower IS already part of Babylon the Great, no need to JOIN the UN, since it is their teachings that identify them? It becomes especially apparent when you use 'THEIR OWN WORDS' to against them to evaluate and identify false religion.

Sheeplike said...

Shawn said "Bible truth may be refreshing, but it is constant. It doesn't change; it isn't revealed over the years to a group of men in New York".

That is true- Bible truth does not change. However, imperfect people misunderstand some things. The Apostles thought that the kingdom would rule the earth in the first century. They were wrong, but were on the watch- as Witnesses are today.

Anonymous said...

sheeplike, again, I repeat:

Rather than suggesting that Apostles made mistakes ask "What percentage of the Apostles writings in the Bible are wrong?" Zero percent. "What percentage of Watchtower statements has been wrong?" The difference being, the Apostles were directed by God, the Governing Body is not.

Many religions are 'on the watch'.

Voice of Reason said...

"Also regarding the lighter getting brighter teaching, how does it explain the flip flopping on certain teachings of the organization? Such as the issue of whether the people of Sodom and Gomorrah will be resurrected or not. Does going back and forth indicate that light is getting brighter? "

Nothing has changed on that. They are still dead and as to who will be resurrected, that is still up to Jesus.

Things do not flip flop. They get refined.

First it was believed that only the righteous would be resurrected. Then in the 1960s the understanding was that many more including the unrighteous, such as unfaithful Solomon would be resurrected and the ones who died at Sodom and Gomorrah, etc. Then it the 1980s it was brought to the center in that the righteous and some unrighteous would be resurrected but not the ones whom Jehovah pronounced judgment on.

No flip flop, but too far left, too far right, then in the center.

Take the superior authorities or higher powers.

Back in Russell's time, they were too liberal to where they felt that they could give God's things to the governments and they compromised.

Then Rutherford in his talks stated that the governments were not representing God so the governments were not the higher powers, it was Jehovah and Jesus. That made it too far to the right, but it kept the Witnesses strong and from compromising during that time and giving God's things to the governments.

Then in the mid 1960s it was set just right. The superior authorities do not get what belongs to God but only what they have a right to.


No flip flop, but too far left, too far right, then in the center.

Voice of Reason said...

Shawn said:
"Wait. The Watchtower Society has no problem casting scathing aspersions on the clergy of Christendom for the lies they have told in the past... and by past I'm talking about the 2nd century. If what Chistendom has done in the past 2000 years is relevant, then what the Watchtower Society has done in the past 100 years is relevant."

That is because Catholics are still doing the same things that they have done for 2000 years. They would still do the inquisition if it were legal or they could make it legal.

What the Watchtower Society had done 100 years ago is not relevant to Jehovah's Witnesses because the WTS is not reflective on Jehovah's Witnesses. Only JWS are reflective on JWs.

Voice of Reason said...

greg said:"Another example that surely disproves 'the light gets brighter' theory is 'the generation' teaching. As we know, the current interpretation, put forth as increased light on the matter is actually the same as the interpretation given by the WT in 1927."

That is not true.

" So if the current understanding is correct, it was right in 1927, the light went out for 80 years, then in february the light went back on. Even so, the change in 1995 was also described as increased light, even though, according to JW's today, that interpretation was completely wrong."

What was believed in 1927 was not what we believe today as the understanding of the anointed is different than today.

Thus today we have a refined view.

Voice of Reason said...

"The difference being, the Apostles were directed by God, the Governing Body is not."

Oh really?

The GB is not directed by God? Because you ask "What percentage of Watchtower statements has been wrong?"

What does one statement have to do with the other?

Where do you get the idea that being directed by God means that one would not get anything wrong? Or that the GB is responsible for the statements in the Watchtower?

The current GB has 2 from the 1970s and one from 1994 and the rest in the 2000s. How can they be responsible for everything in the Watchtower past? They are not even responsible for everything in Watchtower present as only four members of the GB are on the writing committee.

greg said...

VoR, so the 1927 understanding was close to being correct, it just needed refining. How is it possible that the '1995' & the previous 'people alive in 1914' interpretations could be called refinements? They are completely different interpretations, now viewed as completely wrong.

Anonymous said...

Ronde wrote: "Where do you get the idea that being directed by God means that one would not get anything wrong?"

Let's see...the Bible.

Please give us some mistakes in the Bible.

Anonymous said...

Ronde wrote: "What the Watchtower Society had done 100 years ago is not relevant to Jehovah's Witnesses because the WTS is not reflective on Jehovah's Witnesses. Only JWS are reflective on JWs."

This statement by Ronde is the meat of what interested people, Bible studies, and JWs having doubts need to read.

JWs have created an alternate reality -- in their minds -- which excuses them from their past sins.

Just read the words he wrote. I cannot add any criticism that is more damning than his very words.

The next time a JW comes to your door, ask them why they publish such awful things about the Catholic Church. When they mention the PAST sins of the Church, ask them why they forgive the JW religion for their past sins, but not other churches.

Anonymous said...

Ronde wrote: "No flip flop..."

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Voice of Reason said...

anon wrote"
The Voice of Reason wrote: "Where do you get the idea that being directed by God means that one would not get anything wrong?"

'Let's see...the Bible.
Please give us some mistakes in the Bible.'
------
Moses, Noah, Lot, David, Samuel, Saul, Solomon, Peter, Paul, Mary, John, James, Jude, etc.

Anonymous said...

Yeah...so shut up over her too!

You ignorant morons.

Anonymous said...

i



















OMG.......don't you think we can hardly wait to be done with being treated so horribly at the door. We are as sick of you as you are of us. Seriously!

Soon...it will be over soon...for all of us.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"Also regarding the lighter getting brighter teaching, how does it explain the flip flopping on certain teachings of the organization? Such as the issue of whether the people of Sodom and Gomorrah will be resurrected or not. Does going back and forth indicate that light is getting brighter? "

Nothing has changed on that. They are still dead and as to who will be resurrected, that is still up to Jesus.

Things do not flip flop. They get refined.

First it was believed that only the righteous would be resurrected. Then in the 1960s the understanding was that many more including the unrighteous, such as unfaithful Solomon would be resurrected and the ones who died at Sodom and Gomorrah, etc. Then it the 1980s it was brought to the center in that the righteous and some unrighteous would be resurrected but not the ones whom Jehovah pronounced judgment on.

No flip flop, but too far left, too far right, then in the center.
=================================

Way off again VoR. Here's the list of flipflops... with no 'center'...

Will the men of Sodom be resurrected?

Yes
Watchtower 7/18/79 p. 8
No
Watchtower 6/1/52 p. 338
Yes
Watchtower78/1/65 p. 47g
No
Watchtower7 6/1/88 p. 31
Yes
Live Forever (old ed. ) p. 179
No
Live Forever (new ed. ) p. 179
Yes
Insight, vol. 2, p. 985
No
Revelation. book, p. 273

There is no 'center' here, only yes or no.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

That is because Catholics are still doing the same things that they have done for 2000 years. They would still do the inquisition if it were legal or they could make it legal.

What the Watchtower Society had done 100 years ago is not relevant to Jehovah's Witnesses because the WTS is not reflective on Jehovah's Witnesses. Only JWS are reflective on JWs.
==================================

Show me where the Catholic faith would like to start another inquisition in our day. You know it isn't true. So now you're making up Catholic doctrine as well as Watchtower Society doctrine.

The Watchtower Society is still, to this day, telling people that 'the end' is soon based on the false dispensational teachings of C.T.Russell. The story is the same, only the dates have changed.

In 1984, JWs believed that the people who witnessed the events of 1914 would not die before Armageddon occurred. The age of a person who was able to comprehend the events of 1914 was eventually lowered to 10 years old, born in 1904. These people would have to be 104 now.... oops. So, to save themselves from yet another failed prophecy ( they have said that 'the end' would happen in 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1975, before the 1914 generation dies, and the latest implication is 2034 ), the Watchtower society redefined the term "generation" from the literal generation that saw 1914 to something nebulous. The latest date was published in the December 15, 2003 Watchtower on pages 14-19.


Noah preached 120 years until the time of the flood, which was the time of the end to Noah and his generation. The December 15, 2003 Watchtower article is paralleling Noah's day to our present day. The Society is adding a 120 years to the 1914 date to come up with the hinted date of 2034.

Words such as "Similar, Similarly, Similarity, Similarities, Parallel, Corresponds, Characteristic, Compare, Arklike and more are all through the article to back up their subtle and hinted claims.

Page 15, Paragraph 6
"In Noah's day, Jehovah declared: 'My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years.' (Genesis 6:3) The issuance of this divine decree in 2490 B.C.E. marked the beginning of the end for that ungodly world. Just think what that meant for those then living! Only 120 years more and Jehovah would bring 'the deluge of waters upon the earth to bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active from under the heavens.' - Genesis 6:17"

Page 15, Paragraph 7
"Noah received the warning of the upcoming catastrophe decades in advance and he wisely used the time to prepare for survival.' After being given divine warning of things not yet beheld,' says the apostle Paul, '[Noah] showed godly fear and constructed an ark for the saving of his household.' (Hebrews 11:7) What about us? Some 90 years have passed since the last days of this system of things began in 1914. We are certainly in 'the time of the end.' (Daniel 12:4) How should we respond to warnings we have been given? 'He that does the will of God remains forever,' states the Bible. (1 John 2:17) Now is therefore the time to do Jehovah's will with a keen sense of urgency."

Page 15, Paragraph 9
"Jehovah has kept these warnings in front of his people by means of timely reminders through the spiritual food provided by 'the faithful and discreet slave'".... (end of quote)

A footnote in the Feb 15th 2008 Watchtower study article states "Apparently, the period in which "this generation" lives seems to correspond to the period covered by the first vision of the book of Revelation. (Rev. 1:10-3:22) This aspect of the day of the Lord extends from 1914 until when the last of the faithful anointed dies and is resurrected - See Revelation - Its Grand Climax at Hand! page 24, paragraph 4."



The Watchtower society used to quote Psalms 90:10

"10 In themselves the days of our years are seventy years;
And if because of special mightiness they are eighty years,
Yet their insistence is on trouble and hurtful things;
For it must quickly pass by, and away we fly. "



and associate 70 or 80 years with the generation of 1914, but now that that time has come and gone, they need an extension and found it in the parallel of Noah's day.

Same old story - same false story

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"The difference being, the Apostles were directed by God, the Governing Body is not."

Oh really?

The GB is not directed by God? Because you ask "What percentage of Watchtower statements has been wrong?"

What does one statement have to do with the other?

Where do you get the idea that being directed by God means that one would not get anything wrong? Or that the GB is responsible for the statements in the Watchtower?

The current GB has 2 from the 1970s and one from 1994 and the rest in the 2000s. How can they be responsible for everything in the Watchtower past? They are not even responsible for everything in Watchtower present as only four members of the GB are on the writing committee.

=================================

It actually doesn't matter how many of the GB are writing since the core of the Watchtower Society's doctrine is based on 'second fulfillment' of prophesies. There is absolutely no scriptural support for second fulfillment of prophesy. The Watchtower Society will never be right about how near or far away (as if they've ever said it wasn't close) the end of this system is because they, in an arrogantly self-centered manner, believe the prophesies in the Bible are really about the last 130 years.

Really VoR, Ronde, sheeplike et al - I hope all of you have a long full life and die peacefully of natural causes. I also hope that in those final moments of life you remember me and that I told you so.

Now either you're going to be glad I told you so because you quit being a slave to the Watchtower Society and move on to a better life, or you're going to realize that you've wasted the only life you're going to get on this earth pushing dispensationalist publications for a cult.

Anonymous said...

ronde wrote: "Moses, Noah, Lot, David, Samuel, Saul, Solomon, Peter, Paul, Mary, John, James, Jude, etc."

Which portions of the Scriptures may we ignore, because of those portions being wrong?

You ignored my question.

greg said...

JWs always ignore questions they can't answer. That's why if you question WT interpretation of scripture you're likely to end up disfellowshipped, unless you shut up and stop questioning. I asked Voice of Reason a question about 'the generation'. I don't think he can answer it so he just ignored it.

Voice of Reason said...

greg said:
"I asked Voice of Reason a question about 'the generation'. I don't think he can answer it so he just ignored it. "

No, you mentioned about a 1927 Watchtower and I don't have that and have not read that and as I always say, it is not important to JWs to read the that.

"JWs always ignore questions they can't answer. That's why if you question WT interpretation of scripture you're likely to end up disfellowshipped, unless you shut up and stop questioning."

No we don't ignore them but if we can't answer them then it is not important. And if one does question the writing dept's interpretation, one would not get disfellowshipped because I do that all of the time and am not disfellowshipped.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

greg said:
"I asked Voice of Reason a question about 'the generation'. I don't think he can answer it so he just ignored it. "

No, you mentioned about a 1927 Watchtower and I don't have that and have not read that and as I always say, it is not important to JWs to read the that.

"JWs always ignore questions they can't answer. That's why if you question WT interpretation of scripture you're likely to end up disfellowshipped, unless you shut up and stop questioning."

No we don't ignore them but if we can't answer them then it is not important.

But if you cannot defend your faith, then how can you be sure you are right? The question may not be important to you, but it's important to the person asking.

So how are the interpretations in 1995 and the previous 'people alive in 1914' interpretations refinements? They are completely different interpretations, now viewed as completely wrong.

If you can't explain this core doctrine, then how can you honestly call yourself one of Jehovah's Witnesses?

(Acts 10:42) . . .Also, he ordered us to preach to the people and to give a thorough witness . . .

If you can't actually give a thorough witness for this very simple question of doctrine, don't bother telling us how faithful you are to your dedication anymore.

This is it. You're either going to answer the question and back it up with scripture, or you are a complete and total fraud.


And if one does question the writing dept's interpretation, one would not get disfellowshipped because I do that all of the time and am not disfellowshipped.

It just means you haven't been causght yet. From the elder's manual Pay Attantion... To the Flock:

"Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and
speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught
by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates ."

greg said...

Once again Shawn, excellent comments. I can't believe VoR said "if we can't answer a question then it isn't important". That's his defence!! Well to me it is very important, 'the generation' has been a major JW teaching for decades. The only reason VoR says it's not important is because he can't answer my question.

Voice of Reason said...

Shawn said:
"It just means you haven't been causght yet. From the elder's manual Pay Attantion... To the Flock:
"Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and
speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught
by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates ."

The congregation's elders know that I defend the faith on the net. They don't care. They just caution, like the Proverbs say, that the one having dealings with the stupid ones will fare badly.

" But if you cannot defend your faith, then how can you be sure you are right? The question may not be important to you, but it's important to the person asking."

My faith is not in a generation interpretion. My faith is forever.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

Shawn said:
"It just means you haven't been causght yet. From the elder's manual Pay Attantion... To the Flock:
"Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and
speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught
by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates ."

The congregation's elders know that I defend the faith on the net. They don't care. They just caution, like the Proverbs say, that the one having dealings with the stupid ones will fare badly.

Nice try dodging the issue. The quote I gave from the elder's manual had nothing to do with you 'defending your faith' it was specifically addressing this statement you made...

"And if one does question the writing dept's interpretation, one would not get disfellowshipped because I do that all of the time and am not disfellowshipped."

Calling the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses that are published in the Society's literature in question make that person an apostate.


" But if you cannot defend your faith, then how can you be sure you are right? The question may not be important to you, but it's important to the person asking."

My faith is not in a generation interpretion. My faith is forever.

Your faith is 'forever' is it? That's called blind faith and only the least intelligent people subscribe to it.

(Hebrews 11:1) . . .Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.

*** Rbi8 Hebrews 11:1 ***

“Evident demonstration.” Or, “convincing evidence.” Gr., e′leg‧khos; Lat., ar‧gu‧men′tum. Compare Joh 16:8 ftn.

(John 16:7-8) . . .. 8 And when that one arrives he will give the world convincing evidence concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment

Since you cannot offer convincing evidence in answer to a simple question regarding the beliefs of the organization you claim to belong to, you can't actually claim to have this faith.