Monday, October 27, 2008

Satan Is Using Game Shows To Turn People Away From The "Truth"

At the recent Circuit Assembly....
On Saturday afternoon, there was a symposium on behavior modification "conquering the evil with the good".
Along with the usual idiotic groundless assertions about the "dangers" of university education, new technology, internet porn, etc., there was this new and rather startling revelation of a subtle Satanic snare that all should watch out for....
Game shows!
Yes, directly in the Society's outline, there was a specific and clear-cut point on the "dangers" of watching game shows on TV! Watching them could (paraphrase) "get you to thinking about how much money or prizes the contestant was winning, and then you're thinking 'boy, I'd sure like to have that new car / boat / dinette set', and that leads to materialism."
So turn off "Jeopardy"! Just say no to "Deal or No Deal"! Your everlasting destiny depends on it!
Idiots. You just can't make this stuff up...

38 comments:

Iceguy said...

I just laughed when I saw this...control, control,control! Now a JW has to feel quilty about watching game shows! It also gives the r&f one more thing to judge others by in the cong..."Brother Jeopordy must be spiritually weak since he watches game shows"! Deal or No Deal...I say No Deal to the WTS!!!

Anonymous said...

Don't worry, Ronde will drop by to tell us that this is Not a Rule. There are No Rules. Watchtower Has nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

Just keep going to the meetings, going in field service, and await the slaughter of the Chinese.

Shawn said...

More information control from our friends at the Watchtower Society.

Truth be Known said...

Ronde, strike up that worldly Rocky theme music... you're next!

"No more watching movies like Rocky"

LOL

Mister Lorenzo said...

There is no end to the control they exercise ont heir adherents. at a circuit assembly in Yuba City they tried two ways in one weekend. One was fear to control and the other was commendation to control.

For the fear segment on Saturday, they told everyone from the platform that a large crowd had gathered outside with weapons and that the police had been called, but would not be coming anytime soon.

We were to remain in our seats and hope that our kids were at our sides or they could be in mortal danger from the mob outside.

Of the parents who had kids in the restroom or helping with food prep, not one got up to look for their kids. Then they said it was a scenario to test their obedience to the slave.

The other occuered on Sunday. They announced the new publication that would come out weekly. A guide to entertaqinment. The society would now be approving and disapproving music, tv, and movies. How loving for them to remove the burden of wading thru the muck to find a good movie to see. The wbts would now guide you.

Everyone clapped loudly.

After the applause died down, the brother then said that the crowd's response was of course commendable and to be praised for their obedient spirit. But, the society has no resources to produce this publication and we should police our own entertainment.

If you see a brother attending a movie that bothers your spirit led conscience, or if he listens to music that is not Christian based, then our duty would be to report them to teh body of elders immediately like a fine Christian.

What about talking with you brother first? These animals need to be reined in.

Shawn said...

Mister Lorenzo said...

If you see a brother attending a movie that bothers your spirit led conscience, or if he listens to music that is not Christian based, then our duty would be to report them to teh body of elders immediately like a fine Christian.

===================================

Great, so now JWs can only listen to Kingdom Melodies and the new Prince album. :)

Voice of Reason said...

That is not in the outline as that was not stated in other assemblies.

But game shows are a waste of time.

Deal or no deal is stupid. The guy had 2 cases, 1 million or 1 dollar. He said no deal to 400 grand. and his case had 1 dollar. greedy Loser

"The other occuered on Sunday. They announced the new publication that would come out weekly. A guide to entertaqinment. The society would now be approving and disapproving music, tv, and movies. How loving for them to remove the burden of wading thru the muck to find a good movie to see. The wbts would now guide you."

They say that alot and then they also say that there is no such thing as we have bible principles. Don't you listen?

"If you see a brother attending a movie that bothers your spirit led conscience, or if he listens to music that is not Christian based, then our duty would be to report them to teh body of elders immediately like a fine Christian."

That is bull and that was not said at the assembly. You made this all up.

Anonymous said...

Ronde wrote: "You made this all up."

Ironically, so did Russell and Rutheford. Wake up, JWs!

http://www.jwfacts.com/

voice of reason's conscious said...

Voice of Reason...But game shows are a waste of time.


So says Voice of Reason. Who cares?



Voice of Reason...That is bull and that was not said at the assembly. You made this all up.

Like you were there? You seem to believe and think you know everything and have all the answers. Wake Up! Your answers often are in harmony with the Watchtower Society which is nothing more than another religion at best or a destructive cult at worse.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

That is not in the outline as that was not stated in other assemblies.

But game shows are a waste of time.

Deal or no deal is stupid. The guy had 2 cases, 1 million or 1 dollar. He said no deal to 400 grand. and his case had 1 dollar. greedy Loser

=================================

Game shows are a waste of time and yet you watch them VoR? So you purposely waste time in these 'final days' of this system. don't you want to be counted worthy to enter the global park with lots of lions and pandas to pet?

J said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
J said...

See I think we need to look at the world from RondeVoRs perspective for a minute. This will help us understand his persisting to post on this blog despite the fact he has no legitimate arguments.

He posts all day long on Apostate websites which he knows is pretty much the unforgivable sin. Continuing to 'Hang out in SATANS den' in JW terms.

So, since he is going to JW hell at 'Geddon anyhow; he figures his only hope is to pester apostates. Maybe that way Jehovah will just take him out clean with a headshot or something in the end, thereby avoiding some painful plague that rots his skin off in typical loving JW Jehovah God fashion.


Perhaps Ronde will now explain for us about there not being a JW hell and how his church does not disapprove of talking to apostates. That’s the Watchtower society to does that, he does not serve the Watchtower Society. He serves the corporation know as:-insert stupid comment here-.

Or better yet, since Ronde is still ‘in’ he gets the most current date for Armageddon in the current ‘publisher only’ Watchtower. So he can probably rush in and get his sins forgiven by the elders in the little room a couple days prior to the world coming to an end, SAVE!

Anonymous said...

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Ronde is a DF'd JW trying to do penance on this web-blog for all his sins.

As noted, he watches worldly movies and TV programs and then quotes from them - a worldly source - to prove his JW religious point of view.

That's why some have suggested to Ronde that it might be wise to seek professional help.

Rondes shadow said...

Ronde
Your SUCH an idiot.

The Pastor said...

Dear Ronde:

Please come back. You're the only JW that will still talk to me.

Your Buddy,

The Pastor

Truth be Known said...

Don't worry Pastor, Ronde will be back (after a short stay away in hopes that nobody will uncover his "new" alias, which at times has been simply Anonymous).

Anonymous said...

Where are the JW locusts?

Are they away working "unassigned territory" or did the Slave send a new letter, warning "true" Christians to avoid "apostates"?

Sheeplike said...

I was at a Circuit Assembly last weekend and 'satan-is-using-game-shows' was never said. In fact, most of what is posted on this site is exaggerated by about 90%.

What was discussed were thoughts about the dangers of immoral entertainment. I sure all who claim to be Christian can at least agree on that.

Voice of Reason said...

Sheeplike,

I like where they talk down taking cruises. I hate cruises. What a waste of money.

Watch episodes of Love Boat on CBS.com if one wants a cruise.

Yeah, TV these days is so lame with game shows and occult shows and now movies like
Zack and Miri Make a Porno. How desperate.

Anonymous said...

http://www.jwfacts.com/

ron said...

sheeplike said... In fact, most of what is posted on this site is exaggerated by about 90%.


Sorry, it's more like 90% of it is absolute fact.

90% of what sheeplike and voice of reason say is garbage supporting a publishing company and allowing a bunch of men sitting in Brooklyn to control your lives from a small to a large degree.

Voice of Reason said...

"supporting a publishing company and allowing a bunch of men sitting in Brooklyn to control your lives from a small to a large degree."

How does this control work?

It is not like the ones in California promoting gay marriage and attacking the opponents is it?

you don't get it. They don't want to control anything. They want you to control yourself by God's word.

Voice of Reason said...

It's only guilt if you have something to feel guilty about.

So behave.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"supporting a publishing company and allowing a bunch of men sitting in Brooklyn to control your lives from a small to a large degree."

How does this control work?

====================================

Here's exactly how it works

Anonymous said...

Can't understand people like you. If you thought it was idiotic, why did you go? OK, so you don't accept Jehovah's Witness views on education, television, money etc. They see things differently from you. Get over it and get on with your life.

Shawn said...

Anonymous said:

Can't understand people like you. If you thought it was idiotic, why did you go? OK, so you don't accept Jehovah's Witness views on education, television, money etc. They see things differently from you. Get over it and get on with your life.

==================================

Here's what this and other blogs are trying to point out... That the Watchtower Society is running a high-control group that robs people of their Christian freedom. It's not that Jehovah's Witnesses see things differently, it's that the Watchtower Society has told Jehovah's Witnesses how to view things.

Edward Albright said...

"That the Watchtower Society is running a high-control group that robs people of their Christian freedom."

The Watchtower Society has told JWs how to view things... So Shawn is saying that the religion is a high control religion.

Huh? Am I missing something. Someone telling others how to view things is high control?

President Bush gave news conferences about the bailout and urged congress to pass it. Was he high control? He told people how to view it. But did that rob the congress of their freedom? Of course not. Because it failed the house the first time.

Telling people what is right and wrong and good and bad, based on the Bible and its thousands of years of experience and one's own experience is not high control, it is good instruction.

Shawn said...

Edward Albright said:

"That the Watchtower Society is running a high-control group that robs people of their Christian freedom."

The Watchtower Society has told JWs how to view things... So Shawn is saying that the religion is a high control religion.

Huh? Am I missing something. Someone telling others how to view things is high control?

It becomes a high-control issue when they employ cult control techniques to ensure that their members adhere to what they are told to believe.

President Bush gave news conferences about the bailout and urged congress to pass it. Was he high control? He told people how to view it. But did that rob the congress of their freedom? Of course not. Because it failed the house the first time.

The difference is that President Bush didn't disfellowship Congress when they did not pass the bailout plan that he endorsed.

Telling people what is right and wrong and good and bad, based on the Bible and its thousands of years of experience and one's own experience is not high control, it is good instruction.

Again, the real difference is in what happens when the person receiving the instruction chooses not to apply it. Jesus never disfellowshipped anyone for not listening to Him. The first century Christians never disfellowshipped anyone for disagreeing with them. The early followers of C.T.Russell never disfellowshipped anyong for disagreeing with him.

March 1880 Watchtower

"We disfellowship no man for opinion’ s sake, believing that
many, who know but little, are dear unto the Lord, and will
be heirs of the Kingdom among the sanctified. We have some-
times been cast off by others, but we have never been conscious
of casting off others, and we hope and pray that we may never
be guilty of such a thing. J. H. P. "

It wasn't until 1939 when president of the Watchtower Society, 'Judge' Rutherford, decided he wanted more control over individual Jehovah's Witnesses was the policy of disfellowshipping as we know it today instituted.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clear that up for you.

Edward Albright said...

Shawn,

people are not disfellowshipped for not listening or applying counsel.

But if they continue to violate the Bible's principles then they show that they do not want to live up to that.

"Jesus never disfellowshipped anyone for not listening to Him. The first century Christians never disfellowshipped anyone for disagreeing with them."

And that is not done today in the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses. People are not disfellowshipped for not listening to anyone or for disagreeing, unless they are causing disunity. There were ones in the first century that were disfellowshipped for disunity. Some are mentioned by name.
"Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."

Disfellowshipped, they were.

"The difference is that President Bush didn't disfellowship Congress when they did not pass the bailout plan that he endorsed."

No, but the American people did.

Shawn said...

Edward Albright said:

Shawn,

people are not disfellowshipped for not listening or applying counsel.

But if they continue to violate the Bible's principles then they show that they do not want to live up to that.

"Jesus never disfellowshipped anyone for not listening to Him. The first century Christians never disfellowshipped anyone for disagreeing with them."

And that is not done today in the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses. People are not disfellowshipped for not listening to anyone or for disagreeing, unless they are causing disunity. There were ones in the first century that were disfellowshipped for disunity. Some are mentioned by name.
"Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."

Disfellowshipped, they were.

You forgot the two verses before the one you quoted...

(1 Timothy 1:18-19) 18 This mandate I commit to you, child, Timothy, in accord with the predictions that led directly on to you, that by these you may go on waging the fine warfare; 19 holding faith and a good conscience, which some have thrust aside and have experienced shipwreck concerning [their] faith.

Paul was counseling Timothy to hold fast to his own faith and not experience the same shipwreck concerning their faith like Hymenaeus and Alexander. Hymenaeus and Alexander left the Christian faith and the apostle Paul left them to grope in spiritual darkness. They were not disfellowshipped. Due to a lack of any centralized organization in the first century, disfellowsipping was not possible. At that time, Christians had to make their own decisions as to who they would associate with. The Watchtower Society likes to imply that there was a practice of disfellowshipping, but that's all they can do - imply, because it's not in the scriptures.


"The difference is that President Bush didn't disfellowship Congress when they did not pass the bailout plan that he endorsed."

No, but the American people did.

Sir, the American people did not demand that the families and friends of the members of Congress not associate with those members of Congress that way the Watchtower Society demands that the friends and family of disfellowshipped ones not even say 'Hello' to them.

*** w81 9/15 p. 25 par. 23 Disfellowshiping—How to View It ***

a disfellowshiped or disassociated person who is trying to promote or justify his apostate thinking or is continuing in his ungodly conduct is certainly not one to whom to wish “Peace.” (1 Tim. 2:1, 2) And we all know from our experience over the years that a simple “Hello” to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?
***

The members of Congress were not told that they will receive direct judgement from God when he murders them at Armageddon, which is going to happen really soon.

*** w59 3/15 p. 170 par. 18 Keeping Strict Watch on How We Walk ***

What a calamity it would be to be disfellowshiped from Jehovah’s congregation and suffer eternal destruction
***

*** w65 12/15 p. 751 par. 15 “We Should Not Neglect the House of Our God” ***

Disfellowshiping means the casting of a member out of God’s household; and if one should remain in this disfellowshiped condition till he died, it would mean his everlasting destruction as a person who is rejected by God.
***

Nice try though. You can try to water down the Watchtower Society's draconian policies which rob Christians in their ranks of their Christian freedom, but the Watchtower Society's own publications tell a different story. Anyone who becomes one of Jehovah's Witnesses will be subject to the Watchtower Society's harsh and often arbitrary policies.

Anonymous said...

Do game shows with large money prizes promote the illusion that money and material things bring happiness and thus make people want to buy things they can't afford? I suppose it's debatable, but the idea is far from being indefensible.

I read this post before I went to our Circuit Assembly over the weekend and listened carefully to see whether it was true. The speaker said nothing about game shows.

I happen to know the speaker personally AND I saw the outline - not just the speaker's notes but the actual photocopied outline extract from Bethel. Again, nothing about game shows, although there were some comments about immorality in reality shows.

As I said, I saw the outline with my own eyes and I'm afraid your statement that this was said "directly in the Society's outline" is untrue.

Edward Albright said...

Shawn,

It seems that this issue of disfellowshipping touches your heart as you write about it quite a bit.

But do you realize that the people who are disfellowshipped get what they want, so why are you complaining?

The ones who have left the faith can't complain that their families in the faith shun them, after all, they are the ones that left.

It is like a man who leaves his wife and files for divorce and then complains that she does not want anything to do with him. Well, he left her. That told her what he thought of her.

The same is when people leave the faith, a faith, any faith, that tells the people what they think of them and that they don't want anything to do with them. So why are you complaining, you got what you wanted. If you want your family to associate with you, then you can associate with them in a context that improves their faith, rather than tears it down.

Edward Albright said...

"there were some comments about immorality in reality shows."

That brings to mind the show
"Temptation Island"

Shawn said...

Edward Albright said:

Shawn,

It seems that this issue of disfellowshipping touches your heart as you write about it quite a bit.

But do you realize that the people who are disfellowshipped get what they want, so why are you complaining?

No one wants a group of men telling their friends and family that they can no longer talk to them. That assertion is ludicrous!

The ones who have left the faith can't complain that their families in the faith shun them, after all, they are the ones that left.

Actually they can complain, you just would prefer not to listen. Why are you even on this blog? Are you trying to prove something to yourself?

A person whose families choose to shun someone who has left the faith is one thing. It's quite another situation among Jehovah's Witnesses. If one of Jehovah's Witnesses continues to associate with someone who has been disfellowshipped, they too are disfellowshipped.

*** w81 9/15 pp. 25-26 par. 27 Disfellowshiping—How to View It ***

But if he will not cease to fellowship with the expelled person, he thus has made himself ‘a sharer (supporting or participating) in the wicked works’ and must be removed from the congregation, expelled.
***

This is hardly the picture of free will you're trying to paint.


It is like a man who leaves his wife and files for divorce and then complains that she does not want anything to do with him. Well, he left her. That told her what he thought of her.

It's nothing like the scenario you offer. In your illustration, the ex-wife is choosing not to associate with her ex-husband. There's not some group of men telling her she can't associate with him.

The same is when people leave the faith, a faith, any faith, that tells the people what they think of them and that they don't want anything to do with them.

Again, this is simply not true. There are plenty of Jewish people who decide not to follow the mainstream orthodox tradition. When that family member makes that choice, that person's orthodox family members are not required to shun them and in fact, usually don't.

It's also not true that someone who rejects a religious (or in this case, a cult) doctrine that that person also rejects his or her family and friends. That is a ridiculous assertion.


So why are you complaining, you got what you wanted. If you want your family to associate with you, then you can associate with them in a context that improves their faith, rather than tears it down.

I do associate with my family in a context that builds them up. I've helped them to see the deceit and clear evidence of lack of divine backing of the Watchtower Society. They no longer live with the unscriptural belief that God is about to murder 99% of all humans on earth including innocent babies in their 'sinning' mother's arms so that Jehovah's Witnesses can live in a global park filled with friendly lions, pandas and bears for their children to play with.

Edward Albright said...

Shawn, 1981, is that the best you can do? I recall that those particular article were written because at that time there were specific troubles going on.

I also recall that 2 John 11 is that which says (NIV) "Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work." In legal terms that one is an accomplice.

You focus on the 'group of men' telling others what to do, but do you not think that people can make the choice themselves. Afterall when a jury gives a guilty verdict, a group of men and women decide that the person is excommunicated, banished to maybe jail for a time or prison for a longer time. Kept away from society to not harm others and for discipline and punishment.

It is the people that set up the system and make the laws and punishment and make up the juries, not a group of men or women.

But yet when the information has been provided in the media about the crime and the details, the public makes the decision to not associate with that one or to get help or punishment for that one.

"I've helped them to see the deceit and clear evidence of lack of divine backing of the Watchtower Society."

Ok, but what about the rest of Jehovah's Witnesses. I know many JWs who are not part of the Watchtower Society. They read and follow the Bible and live by it. So they are JWs despite what you help.


" They no longer live with the unscriptural belief that God is about to murder 99% of all humans on earth including innocent babies in their 'sinning' mother's arms so that Jehovah's Witnesses can live in a global park filled with friendly lions, pandas and bears for their children to play with."

Well, I recall a story in the Bible, making the event scriptural, about a flood where people were given warning and took no note. Children, parents, etc everyone but 8 people died. That was not murder. They chose not to save themselves.

Shawn said...

Edward Albright said...

Shawn, 1981, is that the best you can do? I recall that those particular article were written because at that time there were specific troubles going on.

The Watchtower Society instructs elders to refer newly disfellowshipped people and their JW family to this article. It may have been written in 1981, but it considered the current 'correct view' on the matter. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

I also recall that 2 John 11 is that which says (NIV) "Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work." In legal terms that one is an accomplice.

Your recollection is incomplete. The full context is...

(2 John 7-11) 7 For many deceivers have gone forth into the world, persons not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Look out for yourselves, that YOU do not lose the things we have worked to produce, but that YOU may obtain a full reward. 9 Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him. 11 For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.


This scripture is not talking about disfellowshipping anyone. It's warning Christians to steer clear of those who claim that Jesus did not come to earth in the flesh. At that time, docetism had crept into the Christian theology. In Christianity, Docetism (from the Greek δοκέω [dokeō], "to seem") is the belief that Jesus' physical body was an illusion, as was his crucifixion; that is, Jesus only seemed to have a physical body and to physically die, but in reality he was incorporeal, a pure spirit, and hence could not physically die. This belief treats the sentence "the Word was made Flesh" (John 1:14) as merely figurative. Docetism has historically been regarded as heretical by most Christian theologians.

This passage has nothing to do with 'legal terms' as you claim. The inspired writer was not setting a precedent for disfellowshipping today, but warning first-century Christians that the concept of Jesus as an illusion is categorically unchristian.

This is what happens when someone just accepts the Watchtower Society's scriptural references without taking the context of those scriptures into account.

The bottom line is that there is no scriptural basis for the practice of disfellowshipping other Christians. The Watchtower Society first implemented the policy and then needed the appearance of Biblical backing. They found it by quoting this scripture out of context.


You focus on the 'group of men' telling others what to do, but do you not think that people can make the choice themselves. Afterall when a jury gives a guilty verdict, a group of men and women decide that the person is excommunicated, banished to maybe jail for a time or prison for a longer time. Kept away from society to not harm others and for discipline and punishment.

Jesus' kingdom is no part of this world. Christians have no right to set up judges and juries. This is purely the invention of the Watchtower Society.Initially, the early Bible students were tolerant of differences in opinion about the interpretation of scripture.

March 1880 Watchtower

"We disfellowship no man for opinion’ s sake, believing that
many, who know but little, are dear unto the Lord, and will
be heirs of the Kingdom among the sanctified. We have some-
times been cast off by others, but we have never been conscious
of casting off others, and we hope and pray that we may never
be guilty of such a thing. J. H. P. "

By 1912 the concept of "church trials" has appeared, but the process took place before the entire congregation and the result was very different from what Jehovah's Witnesses think of a as disfellowshipping today.

March 1, 1912 Watchtower

"HOW TO CONDUCT A CHURCH TRIAL
In any matter heard before the congregation there should


be an opportunity for each one interested to present his side
of the case--the one to state his trouble and the other to
answer. At no stage of the proceedings should unkind words
be permitted. The person who attempted to use them should
be considered reprehensible on that account, and his conduct
worthy of being judged a misdemeanor. This course is the one
which the Lord evidently intended should be followed. The
point, however, always to be borne in mind is whether people
arc really busybodying in other men’s matters--a course which
should not be encouraged, either by the class or by the elders.
People waste a great deal of time in evil counsels, in a manner
quite contrary to the Golden Rule and to Matt. 18:15.
If the congregation, after patiently hearing definite, posi-
tive charges of sufficient importance, finds that notwithstand-
ing these various steps the brother against whom complaint
is made has really been doing wrong and is continuing to do so,
they should decide that he is guilty as charged. The vote of
the church should be unanimous, if possible; all partisanship
should be ignored. Since they are not condemning any one to
eternal torment, nor judging him in any way, their advice must
not carry with it any penalty whatever. They are merely ad-
vising the brother that his conduct is contrary to the Scrip-
tures; and that if he does not change his course, they can-
not longer treat him as one of the Lord’s people.
In disfellowshipping him, they are not to ill-treat him; for
we do not act so with publicans and sinners. But we would not
ask a publican or a sinner to take part in the service, either
as an elder or as a deacon or in any other capacity; so the of-
fending brother is not to be asked to offer prayer, or to do
anything that an outsider would not be asked to do. Thus the
congregation would withdraw their fellowship. He is a brother
still, hut not in the best of standing; for he has neglected to
hear the voice of the brethren in the way that the Lord has di-
rected.
It might be possible, however, for a whole class to go
astray in its judgment in a matter, and to decide against a
brother who was in the right. This brother might then say,
"My dear brethren, I appreciate your view in this matter;
and I am sorry that anything in my course should seem to be
worthy of condemnation. I promise you that I will modify the
matter as best I am able. Although in justice to myself I
cannot alter my view, nevertheless, in respect to your united
voices I will not in the matter follow my judgment, which I
feel is the correct one. And if, therefore, I suffer some in-
justice, the Lord will count it to me in the nature of a sacrifice
for the sake of his body, the church. So, then, dear brethren,
while thanking you for your kindly expressed sentiment, I still
wish you to know that it does not do me justice. And I think
that you will inform me of your change of mind on the subject
if you ever should change."
If the brother were really in the wrong, he might say,
"Well, then, put me out!" The class might say, "We are not
putting you out. Do not say that you will withdraw from us.
We will not take your remark for your answer. We hope that
the Lord will have you see that our action has been most
kindly, brotherly, and that it is a part of our duty now to con-
form to the views of the class. If the Lord shows us that we
are wrong, we shall be very glad to acknowledge it. But in
the meantime, dear brother, we do not wish to offend you, but
merely desire to do our duty to the Lord and to his Word."
This course would be the proper one; we should not erect
a barricade between brethren. But it would be very easy to do
injury to such a brother by saying, "Well, never show your
face here again unless you take back every word you have
said." The majority of people have so much self-esteem that
they would not go back after such a statement; whereas they
might do so if the Spirit of the Lord, the Spirit of love and jus-
tice is manifested."

Notice that "He is a brother still, just not in the best of standing" and "we should not erect a barricade between brethren. But it would be very easy to do injury to such a brother by saying, "Well, never show your face here again unless you take back every word you have said." The majority of people have so much self-esteem that they would not go back after such a statement".

By 1939, the meaning of disfellowshipping changed drastically under Rutherford.

From the April 15, 1939 Watchtower

“At Winnipeg, the residence of some of the co-
conspirators aforementioned, the company there of
faithful, spiritual Israelites made and published a
declaration, which was published in The Watchtower
July 1,1937, page 207, and which resolution, amongst
other things, contained the following:
‘We received from the Canadian branch, Toronto,
this afternoon, information leading to the disfellow-
shiping of Walter F. Salter by the Toronto com-
pany. At the regular we&ly service meeting of the
Winnipeg [Canada] company of Jehovah’s witness-
es, held this date, the motion of disfellowshiping
Walter F. Salter by the Toronto company was also
concurred in by the company here. The following
resolution was also moved, seconded, and passed
unanimously :
“(1) Seeing that the Lord’s people are being sub-
jected to a barrage of literature calculated to under-
mine and overthrow the faith of some, the Winni-
peg company of Jehovah’s witnesses hereby recom-
mend to all of the Lord’s people, here and elsewhere,
the following course as a means of protection and
safety :
“(2) Increased activity and interest in the Lord’s
work, especially in the ‘strange work in the field
service now beginning, as also the studies in The
Watchtower and other publications of the Watch
Tower Bible and Tract Society.
“(3) The destruction, without reading, of any
such literature received through the mail or other-
wise.
“(4) The turning of a deaf ear to anyone among
us manifesting a desire to debate or argue respect-
ing this course of action.
“We are in full harmony with the Watch Tower
Bible and Tract Society and the teachings which
Jehovah is so bountifully providing us, through his
visible channel, the columns of the Watchtower.”
The modern-day faithful servants of Jehovah
do no bodily injury to the willful wrongdoers, but
avoid them and count them as dead, and this they
do in obedience to God’s command, and they do not
mourn for them. (Ezek. 24: 15-18) The Society, as
the apostle admonished, acted in harmony with such
admonition, ‘that the church’s body, soul and spirit
[of the Lord] be preserved blameless in this day
of our Lord Jesus Christ.‘-1 Thess. 5: 23.

We can see a convergence of two key elements for cult-like control of Jehovah's Witnesses. First, the emphasis on Armageddon's immanent arrival where only Jehovah's Witnesses would survive. Second the right of the Watchtower Society to disfellowship a member who would then be considered as good as dead as opposed to someone who "is a brother still, just not in the best of standing".


It is the people that set up the system and make the laws and punishment and make up the juries, not a group of men or women.

'The people', rank and file Jehovah's Witnesses, have no say in the matter of disfellowshipping and you know it. The Watchtower Society is not running a democracy. In fact, the Watchtower Society expressly put an end to anything resembling a democracy. In an article entitled "THEOCRATIC ORGANIZATION IN ACTION", the entire power structure was outlined.

From the November 1, 1944 Watchtower:
" Because congregations have overlooked this fact,
they have fallen to the idea of independent local
democratic rule of a congregation over its own
affairs and have elected so-called "elders", "deacons
"bishops," etc., to office by vote of all members of the
congregation. This is contrary to Theocratic rule.
Such rule takes note of a visible governing body
under Jehovah God and his Christ, and it therefor
lays upon such governing body the duty to make
the appointments of special servants in the local
congregations or companies of Jehovah’s faithful
witnesses. The Theocratic organization is not ruled
from any or all congregations upward as the source
of power and authority, but from Jehovah, The
Theocrat, down through his Head of the church,
Christ Jesus the King. "To the only God [THEOS]
our Saviour, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be
glory, majesty, dominion [KRATOS] and power, before
all time, and now, and for evermore."---Jude 25,
Am. Stan. Vet.

Additionally, when someone is accused of committing a crime they are guaranteed access to legal representation. In the Watchtower Society's 'judicial committee', the accused has no representation. Further, in a judicial committee meeting, the prosecutors are also the judge and jury. That's known as a kangaroo court.

So your analogy of the the Watchtower Society's policy of shunning its members to our judicial system doesn't hold water.


But yet when the information has been provided in the media about the crime and the details, the public makes the decision to not associate with that one or to get help or punishment for that one.

If someone makes the choice not to associate with another person that's perfectly fine. However, this is not the case with the Watchtower Society's policy regarding a disfellowshipped person as I've shown in a previous post. Individual Jehovah's Witnesses do not have the option of making the decision to associate with someone who has been disfellowshipped without being censured themselves

"I've helped them to see the deceit and clear evidence of lack of divine backing of the Watchtower Society."

Ok, but what about the rest of Jehovah's Witnesses. I know many JWs who are not part of the Watchtower Society. They read and follow the Bible and live by it. So they are JWs despite what you help.

This is that classic argument made by JW apologists make. That somehow the Watchtower Society is merely a legal entity and holds no sway over rank and file Jehovah's Witnesses.

*** w98 3/15 pp. 18-19 par. 3 Living Up to Christian Dedication in Freedom ***

3 Someone may argue that the way the Witnesses speak about the Watch Tower Society—or more often just “the Society”—indicates that they view it as more than a legal instrument. Do they not consider it to be the final authority on matters of worship? The book Jehovah’s Witnesses—Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom clarifies this point by explaining: “When The Watchtower [June 1, 1938] referred to ‘The Society,’ this meant, not a mere legal instrumentality, but the body of anointed Christians that had formed that legal entity and used it.” The expression therefore stood for “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Matthew 24:45) It is in this sense that the Witnesses generally used the term “the Society.” Of course, the legal corporation and “the faithful and discreet slave” are not interchangeable terms. Directors of the Watch Tower Society are elected, whereas Witnesses who make up ‘the faithful slave’ are anointed by Jehovah’s holy spirit.
***

It is in this sense that I use the term 'Watchtower Society'.



" They no longer live with the unscriptural belief that God is about to murder 99% of all humans on earth including innocent babies in their 'sinning' mother's arms so that Jehovah's Witnesses can live in a global park filled with friendly lions, pandas and bears for their children to play with."

Well, I recall a story in the Bible, making the event scriptural, about a flood where people were given warning and took no note. Children, parents, etc everyone but 8 people died. That was not murder. They chose not to save themselves.

It's not divine retribution that I'm talking about. It's the fact that the Watchtower Society has no scriptural basis for the claim that the end of this system will occur in our day. Their claim is based on dispensational notions which were popular in the 19th century and were responsible for many claims that the end of the world would occur on a particular date. The Watchtower Society has never stopped trying to extract dates from prophesies that have already been fulfilled.

Noah actually had divine backing. He was told to build the ark, he built it and the rain fell. This is not the case with the Watchtower Society. The Watchtower Society has made so many false predictions it cannot possibly be Jehovah's representative.

Additionally, the concept of a global park with lots of friendly lions to pet is not a Christian teaching. The Watchtower Society has taken a metaphor from Isaiah and decided it was a literal statement. Jesus never talked about this global park, only heaven.

Edward Albright said...

"The Watchtower Society instructs elders to refer newly disfellowshipped people and their JW family to this article. It may have been written in 1981, but it considered the current 'correct view' on the matter. I'm surprised you didn't know that."

Why would you expect me to know that?

"the Watchtower Society has no scriptural basis for the claim that the end of this system will occur in our day."

It will come in someone's day but whenever it comes, why should that affect how one lives one's life. One should always serve the Lord the best one can.

But the issue was not Noah vs the WTS. You stated that God was to destroy the majority of people as per JW believe and you did not accept that. But I stated that it has happened in the past.

"Additionally, the concept of a global park with lots of friendly lions to pet is not a Christian teaching. The Watchtower Society has taken a metaphor from Isaiah and decided it was a literal statement. Jesus never talked about this global park, only heaven. "

2 Peter 3:13 "But, according to his promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

That is from Isaiah and the apostle Peter looked to that promise as something not yet fulfilled but could be in his day.

Thus, even this layman can see through your attempts of deception.
The Bible rings truer than your spite for the Watchtower Society.

Shawn said...

Edward Albright said:

"The Watchtower Society instructs elders to refer newly disfellowshipped people and their JW family to this article. It may have been written in 1981, but it considered the current 'correct view' on the matter. I'm surprised you didn't know that."

Why would you expect me to know that?

Because that is the article people are told to reference on the correct view of disfellowshipped persons.

"the Watchtower Society has no scriptural basis for the claim that the end of this system will occur in our day."

It will come in someone's day but whenever it comes, why should that affect how one lives one's life. One should always serve the Lord the best one can.

That view is just fine, but it is not the one the Watchtower Society has been promoting. The Watchtower Society has, time and again, claimed to know when the end of this system will be. It's a ploy to keep JWs out in the field. They tell their members that 'the end' is right around the corner when in fact, they have no reason to believe it's going to occur in our time at all. The Watchtower Society has subscribed to questionable dispensationalist methods for extracting dates for Armageddon for over a century. They weren't right then and they are not right now. This is clear proof that they have absolutely no divine backing.

But the issue was not Noah vs the WTS. You stated that God was to destroy the majority of people as per JW believe and you did not accept that. But I stated that it has happened in the past.

And I'm saying there is absolutely no relationship between what happened in Noah's day and what is happening in our day. As I said, Noah actually had divine backing. He was told to build the ark, he built it and the rain fell. This is not the case with the Watchtower Society. The Watchtower Society has made so many false predictions it cannot possibly be Jehovah's representative.

It's clear that Noah had divine backing because when he finished the ark, the rain fell. In contrast, the Watchtower Society has claimed 'the end is near' over and over with only failed predictions in their wake.


"Additionally, the concept of a global park with lots of friendly lions to pet is not a Christian teaching. The Watchtower Society has taken a metaphor from Isaiah and decided it was a literal statement. Jesus never talked about this global park, only heaven. "

2 Peter 3:13 "But, according to his promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

That is from Isaiah and the apostle Peter looked to that promise as something not yet fulfilled but could be in his day.

That doesn't actually prove your point. There's nothing to suggest that Peter took the scripture in Isaiah literally. Peter doesn't talk about hugging lions and pandas. When Isaiah (or one of the Isaiahs, I should say because it's likely that as many as three people penned this book) penned the passage found at Isaiah 65:17, he was trying to give hope to an enslaved people. He was using metaphor and hyperbole to energize those who were depressed and make them realize that this too would pass. Peter rightly quoted from Isaiah when he was trying to encourage the oppressed Christians in the first century. The entire second letter of Peter was about the good and oppressed prevailing over the privileged and evil.

Thus, even this layman can see through your attempts of deception.
The Bible rings truer than your spite for the Watchtower Society.

...and more ad hominem attacks. You have no reason to believe that I'm attempting deception. My criticism of the Watchtower Society springs from an honest desire for people who are held mentally captive by this cult to experience true freedom. I'll agree that the Bible rings true and go a step further and add that it exposes the Watchtower Society as a false prophet in some of its earliest verses.

(Deuteronomy 18:21-22) . . .And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.’


How many times will you let the Watchtower Society cry wolf before you stop believing their claims that they are 'God's spirit-directed organization'? Nothing they have predicted has come true! They simply claim to have 'new light' every time something they predicted does not come to pass. One of those nuggets of new light surrounded 1914. When the end did not come in 1914 or 1915, they changed the significance of the year to something that contradicts what Jesus told His followers.

Compare the following quote from the Watchtower...

*** w02 10/1 p. 19 par. 8 Cultivate Obedience as the End Draws Near ***

The Bible reveals that Jesus received that authority at the end of the prophetic “seven times”—“the appointed times of the nations”—in 1914. (Daniel 4:16, 17; Luke 21:24) In that year, Christ’s invisible “presence” as Messianic King began, as did his time to “go subduing in the midst of [his] enemies.”
***

...with what Jesus told His followers...

(Matthew 24:23-26) 23 “Then if anyone says to YOU, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned YOU. 26 Therefore, if people say to YOU, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers,’ do not believe it.

Jesus warned His disciples that there would be those who would claim that He had returned but could not be seen. This 'invisible presence' that the Watchtower Society like to talk so much about is actually categorically unchristian! The Watchtower Society is proving Jesus' words true, but in the most reprehensible way.