Monday, October 27, 2008

Jehovah's Witnesses Love To Think They Are Being Persecuted


Jehovah's Witnesses love to think they are being persecuted. In fact, they, more than any other religion, believe that any kind of persecution makes them more special.
In November's Kingdom Ministry the article PREPARE NEW ONES TO FACE OPPOSITION reinforces that need for the witnesses. Witnesses are to explain to their Bible studies that when people express concern about their studying with witnesses because of their blood transfusion policy, or mention that there are pedophiles in the congregations, they are to just chalk that up to persecution.
If your husband leaves because you spend to much time in meetings, that's persecution. Rejoice!
If your children complain because they are no longer permitted to celebrate holidays, that's persecution. Rejoice!
To Jehovah's Witnesses persecution means that you are becoming a true christian.

52 comments:

Anonymous said...

Opposition != persecution

Shawn said...

The Watchtower Society's policies regarding their adherent's relationships nearly guarantee that the people in their life will discourage them from becoming one of Jehovah's Witnesses. When combined with their study conductors warning of 'opposition', it makes it seem as though their study conductor can predict what will happen in the future.

Anonymous said...

As always... good point Shawn.

Shawn said...

I love it! The article first labels any people in the new student's life who raise questions about the Watchtower Society's high-control group as an instrument of Satan. Then it goes on to say "At times, opposition from others may be due to misconceptions about Jehovah's Witnesses."

I would add - At other times people who thoroughly understand the Watchtower Society will warn the new one about our list of failed prophesies and how we use cult control tactics to make it very difficult for the new student to leave once they become a member.

Voice of Reason said...

Shawn,

Since this entry is about the KM, why are you writing about WTS policy?

The WTS does not produce the KM.

Get a clue.

The one that predicted is Jesus when he said that there will be opposition and from the family too when people become his followers.

Voice of Reason said...

Shawn, I don't see any mention of the WTS in that article.

You are, as usual, reading what is not there.

Anonymous said...

VOR: Well, who in the hell produces it then? Thats the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Are they farming their research & printing out to other sources now? You are so stupid. Their name is clearly printed on each copy. It used to be. Back when I was still active. 7 yrs ago.

the truth said...

Voice of Reason said...
The WTS does not produce the KM.

The KM is produced by the "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses" which is a creation of the Watchtower Society.

Stop with the semantics. It really is pathetic.

Voice of Reason said...

Dudes,

It does not say Watchtower anywhere on that photo.

It says for the USA. The KMs are produced by the branch offices of Jehovah's Witnesses in each branch under the direction of the governing body. The branch offices oversee the preaching work in each branch.

In fact the WTBTS used to oversee the US branch, but in 2002 or 2003 the USA got its own branch office.

Voice of Reason said...

"The KM is produced by the "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses" which is a creation of the Watchtower Society."

Not true.

It is a creation of the board of directors of it, which are different than the board of the WTBTS.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

Dudes,

It does not say Watchtower anywhere on that photo.

It says for the USA. The KMs are produced by the branch offices of Jehovah's Witnesses in each branch under the direction of the governing body. The branch offices oversee the preaching work in each branch.

In fact the WTBTS used to oversee the US branch, but in 2002 or 2003 the USA got its own branch office.
==================================

Who cares? The point is that the KM is teaching JWs how to set new ones up for the love-bomb/isolation sucker punch that cults use to control members.

If you're not sure what to believe about Jehovah's Witnesses, go to the official web site of Jehovah's Witnesses and then contact me, I was one for 33 years.

Be sure you get both sides of the story.

Voice of Reason said...

Shawn said:
"I was one for 33 years."

So you say.

You are still one but you do not live up to your dedication.

Anonymous said...

'You are still one but you do not live up to your dedication.'

How can he be a Jehovah's Witness if he does not witness for the Cong of Jehovah's Witnesses??

Anonymous said...

Vor, Ronde whatever, is only interested in sabotaging each thread by his stupid semantics.

Hey...WE GET IT! We know who we are talking about, the JWs who visit here know who we are talking about, it seems there's only you who keeps beating the dead horse....

Damn, I'm helping him aren't I?

People reading here, bypass all the garbage about the Watchtower, Society etc, and read the real arguments and comments...

Anonymous said...

You are so “outed” Ronde...your semantics, your use of many aliases (Voice of Reason, Anonymous, etc.), your insensitive comments about blaming victims of pedophilia and their parents, etc. etc.

Your motivation is pretty clear and it appears that most everyone reading this web-blog understands your obsession with sabotaging anyone who is critical of JW’s.

You use diversion tactics, like trying to technically insist who it is that produces a particular piece of literature used by JW’s, is very typical of you. It’s like someone who goes to rob a bank and calls in a fire at a building on the other side of town. A diversion!

The GB of your religion blesses every piece of literature that you people read – so what does it matter what secular name that they use for the actual printing of it???

It matters none and you know it. It’s just a very feeble attempt on your part to try and prove something wrong in a post that is critical of JW’s.

If you stopped for a moment - instead of trying to come up with a quick and useless counter argument – you would see that the points that are critical of JW’s are substantial and should make you think.

Stop your non-sense and grow up.

Anonymous said...

Shawn, do you have an e-mail (not your real/personal one of course) so that I can contact you? I have a few questions for you about JW's.

Anonymous said...

Ronde, is the Kingdom Ministry included on the annual WATHTOWER Library CD-ROM?

You know, the FREAKING WATCHTOWER Library CD-ROM?

Shawn said...

Anonymous said...

Shawn, do you have an e-mail (not your real/personal one of course) so that I can contact you? I have a few questions for you about JW's.

===================================

Sure. Just click the email link on my blogger profile.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

Shawn said:
"I was one for 33 years."

So you say.

You are still one but you do not live up to your dedication.

==================================

Oh make up your mind VoR. First you say that I was never one of Jehovah's Witnesses because I left, then you say that I'm still one.

I'm still the same person, it's true. I've never suffered liars well, especially when they claim to speak for God. So when I learned of the Watchtower Society's repeated false prophesies and dishonest dealings with its own people, I could not in good conscience continue to endorse them.

Anonymous said...

I have not posted anything stupid under the name Ronde nor Voice of Reason, but under the name Shawn, I have posted many stupid things.

the truth said...

Voice of Reason...It is a creation of the board of directors of it, which are different than the board of the WTBTS.


Right...which again has their origins with the Watchtower Society. Your arguments become more ridiculous with each passing day. As someone else pointed out, the KM's are available on the Watchtower Library CD-ROM as well.

You want to continue to split hairs on who or from exactly what part of the Society's/Organization's branch provided what information, feel free to do so. T

he point is that it's more information spewing forth from a bunch of people who have no right using and controlling people the way that they do. They may have some Bible truths, but they are no better than any other religion.

Voice of Reason said...

Shawn said:
"Watchtower Society's repeated false prophesies and dishonest dealings with its own people, I could not in good conscience continue to endorse them."

Then why be an exjw for that? Why not be a Witness of Jehovah God in spite of that, like many are. Oh, your brain can't comprehend that.

And there have not been repeated false prophesies. 1914, 1925 or 1975 were not prophesies at all.

Voice of Reason said...

Shawn said:
"I'm still the same person, it's true."

So you are saying that when you dedicated your life to Jehovah God through his son Jesus, to do Jehovah's will, you lied.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

Shawn said:
"I'm still the same person, it's true."

So you are saying that when you dedicated your life to Jehovah God through his son Jesus, to do Jehovah's will, you lied.

===================================

Let me explain it in terms you might be able to understand. If you agree to buy a house and it turns out that the seller doesn't have the right to sell you the house, you do not have to honor that agreement.

When I answered in the affirmative to the question...

*** w85 6/1 p. 30 Subjecting Ourselves to Jehovah by Dedication ***

Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?
***

...I was ...

*** w07 4/1 p. 25 par. 15 Loyal to Christ and His Faithful Slave ***

happy and grateful to serve Jehovah under the oversight of the slave class and its Governing Body
***

...however, after learning the truth about what this 'slave class' and the GB have done, such as

Lying about when the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed

Relying on the measurement of a tunnel in the Great Pyramid

Blaming their own members for believing them when they said the end of all humang governments would happen on a certain date.

Misapplying Proverbs 4:10-19 to support their shifting doctrine and failed predictions.

Using cult control techniques on their members

...it was evident that this could not be God's spirit-directed organization. My dedication was a sham, not because I lied, but because they did.

Anonymous said...

Shawn, good comments.

They need to add the following question to the baptism questions that must be answered with the two elders, prior to baptism.

Question: Do you agree to remain one of JWs, even if you prove to yourself that JWs have lied to you and deceived you?

Of course, to an outsider, the question sounds absurd. Yet, this is exactly what JWs feel a person should do.

Voice of Reason said...

Shawn said:
"however, after learning the truth about what this 'slave class' and the GB have done, such as"

The GB did not do the things you listed. Since the 7 of the 9 GB members were appointed 1994 and after makes your complaints invalid.

"Lying about when the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed"

They are not lying about it. They are just going by what the Bible indicates. It just does not matter either way though because it does not affect 1914.

"Relying on the measurement of a tunnel in the Great Pyramid"

They don't do that.

"Blaming their own members for believing them when they said the end of all humang governments would happen on a certain date."

They don't do that.

"Misapplying Proverbs 4:10-19 to support their shifting doctrine and failed predictions."

It is not misapplied. IT is true.

"Using cult control techniques on their members"

They use the bible and reality. You just couldn't handle either.

"...it was evident that this could not be God's spirit-directed organization. My dedication was a sham, not because I lied, but because they did."

No, they did not lie. Your heart just focused on serving man and not Jehovah. That is typical of your kind. Selfish.

Voice of Reason said...

Apostates are the destructive cult. The destroy families. Apostates encourage people to get divorces.

Witnesses build stronger families. Witnesses do not encourage divorces but encourage all to serve Jehovah.

spiritualbrother said...

It appears that many JW's are paranoid people.

Voice of Reason said...

"It appears that many JW's are paranoid people. "

And it appears that you are not a real spiritual brother.

Anonymous said...

Ronde wrote: "Witnesses build stronger families. Witnesses do not encourage divorces but encourage all to serve Jehovah."

Riiiiiiiiiight.

What about all of those Chinese families that Jehovah is going to kill, just around the corner?

You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you between the eyes.

JWs do NOT respect my freedom of religion. Period. No more discussion necessary.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

Shawn said:
"however, after learning the truth about what this 'slave class' and the GB have done, such as"

The GB did not do the things you listed. Since the 7 of the 9 GB members were appointed 1994 and after makes your complaints invalid.

So that must mean you are part of a completely different religion every time a GB member is appointed.

Let's talk about the effect leaders have. Hmmm... Sadam Husein is dead, does that mean that thousands of Kurds he gassed aren't dead anymore?

If past leaders are irrelevant then why does the Watchtower talk so much about the atrocities committed by the Catholic Church? Pope Benedict didn't launch the inquisition or burn people at the stake for reading the Bible. Apparently, even the Watchtower Society thinks past leaders are important.


"Lying about when the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed"

They are not lying about it. They are just going by what the Bible indicates. It just does not matter either way though because it does not affect 1914.

That's right, because 1914 has nothing to do with the bible. It's pure 19th century dispensationalism.

"Relying on the measurement of a tunnel in the Great Pyramid"

They don't do that.

I have copies of "Studies in the Scriptures vol III" where study 10 is entitled "THE TESTIMONY OF GOD’S STONE WITNESS AND
PROPHET, THE GREAT PYRAMID IN EGYPT"

It's a thrilling account about how the Great Pyramid has tunnels, that when measured in inches, supports C. T. Russel's claim that the end of all human governments will happen in 1914. What's really exciting to me is that means the length of an inch has to have been specified by God himself.


"Blaming their own members for believing them when they said the end of all humang governments would happen on a certain date."

They don't do that.

Really... (shoulda' known better VoR)...

Here's another quote from Three Worlds:
The seventy years captivity ended in the first year of Cyrus, which was B. C. 536. They therefore commenced seventy years before, or B. C. 606. Hence, it was in B. C. 606, that God’s kingdom ended, the diadem was removed, and all the earth given up to the Gentiles. 2520 years from B. C. 606, will end in A. D. 1914, or forty years from 1874; and this forty years upon which we have now entered is to be such “a time of trouble as never was since there was a nation.” And during this forty years, the kingdom of God is to be set up, (but not in the flesh, “the natural first and afterwards the spiritual),” the Jews are to be restored, the Gentile kingdoms broken in pieces “like a potter’s vessel,” and the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ, and the judgment age introduced.



So far from being 'unsure' about what would happen, Russell believed that in the year 1914 human governments would cease to exist and Christ would rule.

But I am not willing to admit that this calculation is even one year out. Not from dogmatism, for I am ready to admit that my opinion, or my reasoning, may be as faulty as that of many others; and if, in the present case, there was but this one argument, I should say, it is quite possible errors may be found arising in some unexpected quarter. But there is such an array of evidence. Many of the arguments, most of them, indeed, are not based on the year-day theory, and some of them, not
based even on the chronology; and yet there is a harmony existing, between them all. If you had solved a difficult problem in mathematics, you might very well doubt if you had not possibly made some error of calculation. But if you had solved that problem in seven different ways, all independent one of another, and in each and every case reached the same result, you would be a fool any longer to doubt the accuracy of that result. And this is a fair illustration of the weight of evidence that can be brought to bear on the truthfulness of our present position. Forty years, or now, about thirty-eight years before the times of the Gentiles end, is none too much time, for the accomplishment of the many wonderful events that must transpire during their continuance. If our calculation showed that they were to end this year, or even during this decade, doubts might well arise as to the possibility of this being true. But there seems to be time enough, since events move rapidly in this age of the world.



It wasn't entirely truthful that "At first, they thought that by that date the Kingdom of God would have obtained full, universal control." The Watchtower Society clung to 1914 as marking the end of earthly governments even after 1914 had passed.

July 15, 1914 Watchtower

To my understanding the harvest of the Jewish age com-
menced in the fall of 29 A.D., and, being a period of forty
years, ended in the fall of 69 A.D. In the spring of 70 A.D.,
at the time of the Passover, the Roman army besieged Jerusa-
lem. The siege lasted about six months and ended in the fall
of 70 A.D. Thus the great calamity that our Lord foretold to
Jerusalem did not reach its worst until six months after the
end of the Jewish harvest, and continued about six months
thereafter, or one whole year after the end of the Jewish
harvest. This same period in antitype, if antitype it is, would
seem to be from April, 1915, to October, 1915. If there is any
significance in this it would seem that the burning of the
"tares" in the time of trouble will not take place until the
harvest is entirely ended.



Then, when it seemed clear that Christ was not going to swoop in and commandeer all human government, they didn't immediately conclude "that, instead, the date had marked only a starting point as to Kingdom rule", they blamed the early Bible students for expecting too much.

November 1, 1914 Watchtower

It may be that many of the Lord’s people were expecting
more than they should have looked for to occur with the open-
ing of the Jewish year 1915, which began with September 21.
The human mind seems to have a natural tendency, and one
with which we should have sympathy, to expect matters to
culminate more rapidly, fulfilments to come more suddenly,
than they ever do come.


According to the Watchtower, it wasn't failed prophesy, but the natural tendency of human minds to expect matters to culminate more rapidly. As if it had nothing to do with the fact that for forty years, the Watchtower had been printing that 1914 would mark the end of all human governments. Not only that but the date could not be even one year out!


"Misapplying Proverbs 4:10-19 to support their shifting doctrine and failed predictions."

It is not misapplied. IT is true.

First, we need to take a look at Proverbs 4:18 and its context. The Watchtower Society would have us believe that this scripture is telling us that our understanding of God's purpose would become more clear as time progresses. However, examination of the entire passage says something different.

(Proverbs 4:10-19) 10 Hear, my son, and accept my sayings. Then for you the years of life will become many. 11 I will instruct you even in the way of wisdom; I will cause you to tread in the tracks of uprightness. 12 When you walk, your pace will not be cramped; and if you run, you will not stumble. 13 Take hold on discipline; do not let go. Safeguard it, for it itself is your life. 14 Into the path of the wicked ones do not enter, and do not walk straight on into the way of the bad ones. 15 Shun it, do not pass along by it; turn aside from it, and pass along. 16 For they do not sleep unless they do badness, and their sleep has been snatched away unless they cause someone to stumble. 17 For they have fed themselves with the bread of wickedness, and the wine of acts of violence is what they drink. 18 But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established. 19 The way of the wicked ones is like the gloom; they have not known at what they keep stumbling.


This passage of scripture is not talking about the doctrinal changes of an organization, but the differences between choosing either a righteous or a wicked course of life. There is no indication in the scriptures that Christians would have " incomplete, even inaccurate, concepts".

(2 Timothy 3:14-17)

14 You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from what persons you learned them 15 and that from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through the faith in connection with Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

Paul does not tell Timothy that he would have " incomplete, even inaccurate, concepts", but that he would be "fully competent, completely equipped". This notion of 'new light' is hardly evidence of someone who is completely equipped.


"Using cult control techniques on their members"

They use the bible and reality. You just couldn't handle either.

If all they use is the Bible, why do they disfellowship people, a practice that could not have possibly been practiced in the first-century... on top of being completely unChristian. If what they teach is from the Bible, why do they teach that Jesus arrived invisibly in 1914 when Jesus Himself says in Matthew 24:23-28

23 “Then if anyone says to YOU, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned YOU. 26 Therefore, if people say to YOU, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers,’ do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 28 Wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

Jesus Himself states in this verse that if anyone tells you that He has returned but can't be seen, that person (or 'class' as the case may be ) is a false prophet. Jesus in not in the wilderness, He's not in the inner chambers, and He hasn't returned invisibly to guide the Watchtower Society.



"...it was evident that this could not be God's spirit-directed organization. My dedication was a sham, not because I lied, but because they did."

No, they did not lie. Your heart just focused on serving man and not Jehovah. That is typical of your kind. Selfish.

Then what's your problem? I've realized that this group of men running a cult over Jehovah's Witnesses is just a group of men who are making up their own 'truth'. Why are you defending a group of men VoR? Why don't you rely purely on Holy Spirit, faith in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus and the Holy Scriptures alone? If you're only interest is to serve Jehovah, then why does it matter sooo much to you when we here point out the deceptions of the Watchtower Society?

Voice of Reason said...

"What about all of those Chinese families that Jehovah is going to kill, just around the corner?"

So at least you admit that Jehovah is the one that will do that. Don't blame us, we are trying to preach.


"JWs do NOT respect my freedom of religion. Period. No more discussion necessary."

You make no sense.

Shawn said...

Apostates are the destructive cult. The destroy families. Apostates encourage people to get divorces.

Witnesses build stronger families. Witnesses do not encourage divorces but encourage all to serve Jehovah.

===================================

I've never used any cult control techniques, which are necessary if I'm a cult. There is not 'apostate' organization, so I'd have to be my own cult.

I don't encourage people to get divorced and I've been DF'd for promoting a sect (which, by the way, just means I pointed out to the elders the discrepancies in Watchtower doctrine), so you must be wrong.

How is a family with a disfellowshipped person stronger? A family that lets a bunch of men who run the Watchtower Society tell them not to talk to someone they're related to is a much weaker family.

J said...

Ronde Says:
"Since this entry is about the KM, why are you writing about WTS policy?"

"The WTS does not produce the KM."

"Get a clue."

Yes Ronde get a clue and quit being a moron. Perhaps if I rear end you in a collision you will accept that you were hit by my car, not me. I have nothing to do with my car. It's produced by GM.

Ronde - what motivates you to keep posting on this blog? Are you not employed? Do you sit around getting a Socialist paycheck from the government or what?

Anonymous said...

Ronde wrote: "So at least you admit that Jehovah is the one that will do that"

No, sir. That's what you believe, I think.

I quite certain that no such thing will happen.

In fact, if you'd like to have this discussion, again, in 30 years, we can do so.

Remember: Just around the corner since 1874!

Spiritual Materialism. Apocalyptic Millenarianism. Destructive Cult. Spiritual Tyranny. Watchtower Law Replaced Mosaic Law.

Read the BIBLE, not The Watchtower (or whatever Ronde calls the magazine this week).

Anonymous said...

JW leaders don't want you to learn about their past. Oh, sure, there's the proclaimers publication with its history, but it doesn't contain half of what I have read on the Internet about the JW's history/past.

Beause history tends to repeat itself, it's so important to know the past of this religion in detail. JW's leaders don't appear to learn from the mistakes in their own religion. They keep making the same mistakes over and over again - but yet they claim it's the ONLY TRUE RELIGION.

I'll let well-informed and unbiased people come to their own conclusion about that claim.

Simple reading the documents on www.silentlambs.org is enough to enlighten any JW that this religion is not all it claims to be.

Tony said...

my ex-wife, who was an active jw, recently slept with a 'non-jw', lied about it, and the elders let her off b/c of me being an unbeliever.

i used to be very cool about letting her do what she needed to do worship wise, but she saw her out of the marriage through information just like this.

my so-called worldly friends can't even wrap their brains around the justification of this behaviour.

so, my respect for how people need to worship has been quite diminished....especially with the jws b/c it's all blanket statements and spin without any real research...since real jws don't know how to do real research b/c they don't go to college and learn to look at all sides of an issue.

again, thanks for continuing this blog...you're a rock star.

Shawn said...

Anonymous said...

JW leaders don't want you to learn about their past. Oh, sure, there's the proclaimers publication with its history, but it doesn't contain half of what I have read on the Internet about the JW's history/past.
=====================================

I've dissected the Proclaimers revisionist version of history starting with this blog post.

Anonymous said...

Hey Shawn, I think its great that Ronde/VOR is posting here because it gives you an opportunity to comprehensively refute his inane statements with well researched facts.

Thank you for all your hard work.

Edward Albright said...

"my ex-wife, who was an active jw, recently slept with a 'non-jw', lied about it, and the elders let her off b/c of me being an unbeliever."

Tony, So much about these complaints about the Witnesses is what people, people that they know, have done that they think are hypocritical.

But yet it is a case of the people not following the religion, not that the religion has gone wrong.

Anonymous said...

edward albright wrote: "But yet it is a case of the people not following the religion, not that the religion has gone wrong"

Your comments can be applied to every Christian religion.

When these terrible acts are committed, the people involved are STILL Jehovah's Witnesses.

We know all about how you kick out them the door afterwards. That doesn't change the fact that they WERE Jehovah's Witnesses at the time of the infraction.

Anonymous said...

Ronde (or whatever he's calling himself today) wrote: "It just does not matter either way though because it does not affect 1914"

Without 607 there is non 1914. Without 1914, there is no such thing Jehovah's Witnesses. The entire religion of Jehovah's Witnesses is based upon preaching a 'new' Gospel that Christ returned in 1914.

Deal. With. It.

Edward Albright said...

"When these terrible acts are committed, the people involved are STILL Jehovah's Witnesses. "

Yeah so what?

Senator Ted Stevens was convicted on federal corruption charges. You all state that JW leaders are corrupt. But does the verdict on Stevens mean that the whole USA or the government or even the constitution is flawed, bad and corrupt?

I have faith in the constitution which includes the articles which set up the branches of government regardless of what anyone in congress does. I think people should do the same with the Bible. Have faith in that and the congregations it sets up regardless of what people do.

Anonymous said...

edward albright wrote: " I think people should do the same with the Bible. Have faith in that and the congregations it sets up regardless of what people do"

Exactly. Your religion does not have a monopoly on truth. The Bible is the only book necessary. Your religion is not the ONLY acceptable religion.

the truth said...

Edward Albright said...I have faith in the constitution which includes the articles which set up the branches of government regardless of what anyone in congress does. I think people should do the same with the Bible. Have faith in that and the congregations it sets up regardless of what people do.


Good analogy. Just like one should have faith in the Bible which includes the principles which setup the branches of beliefs regardless of what anyone in a particular religion does. People should to the same with the Bible indeed. Have faith in that and the various congregations of various religions it sets up regardless of what people do.

For Christians specifically, this encompasses all Christian faiths and beliefs. While there may be some people and even some branches that are corrupt, there certainly is not just one belief and one branch system which holds a so-called exclusive route to truth and understanding. That is a prideful, deceiving and cunning way to hold people captive.

steve said...

the truth said...For Christians specifically, this encompasses all Christian faiths and beliefs. While there may be some people and even some branches that are corrupt, there certainly is not just one belief and one branch system which holds a so-called exclusive route to truth and understanding. That is a prideful, deceiving and cunning way to hold people captive.


GOOD POINT! That is because the focus is Jesus - as it should be for CHRISTians - Not a man made organization such as the Watchtower Society and its teachings.

Edward Albright said...

"Exactly. Your religion does not have a monopoly on truth. The Bible is the only book necessary. Your religion is not the ONLY acceptable religion. "

My religion? I don't recall stating what 'my religion' was.

If you are referencing the Witnesses, then it is not a case of having a monopoly on the truth but that they try the hardest for the truth.

Edward Albright said...

the truth,

I went to this topic because it was about persecution and the photo picture stated that ones studying the Bible should be prepared for opposition from ones such as family and friends. It was not concerning a one exclusive Christian religion.

The references are to where Jesus stated that his followers would be persecuted and that he would bring division in families because some would follow him and others would not.

So yes, opposition does equal persecution as what the Lord stated. If people are studying the Bible to better their lives and others are causing problems, then it is domestic persecution as opposed to the national one. The ones opposed and persecuted are closer to the one exclusive faith as it is within what Jesus said.

Shawn said...

Edward Albright said...

the truth,

I went to this topic because it was about persecution and the photo picture stated that ones studying the Bible should be prepared for opposition from ones such as family and friends. It was not concerning a one exclusive Christian religion.

The references are to where Jesus stated that his followers would be persecuted and that he would bring division in families because some would follow him and others would not.

So yes, opposition does equal persecution as what the Lord stated. If people are studying the Bible to better their lives and others are causing problems, then it is domestic persecution as opposed to the national one. The ones opposed and persecuted are closer to the one exclusive faith as it is within what Jesus said.
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There is a huge difference between opposing Christianity and opposing a cult. Concerned friends and family are not 'persecuting' someone studying with Jehovah's Witnesses if they are alerting the person studying to the dangers of joining a high-control group.

Shawn said...

Edward Albright said...

If you are referencing the Witnesses, then it is not a case of having a monopoly on the truth but that they try the hardest for the truth.
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That would be fine if your statement were true. The fact of the matter is that the Watchtower Society claims to be the only organization that Jehovah and Jesus approve.

*** w07 4/1 p. 22 par. 5 Loyal to Christ and His Faithful Slave ***

“On arriving” to inspect the “slave” in 1918, Christ found a spirit-anointed remnant of faithful disciples who since 1879 had been using this journal and other Bible-based publications to provide spiritual “food at the proper time.” He acknowledged them as his collective instrument, or “slave,” and in 1919 entrusted them with the management of all his earthly belongings.
***

There's no actual proof that this is the case. Even The Watchtower Society acknowledges this...

*** w07 1/1 p. 28 par. 12 “The First Resurrection”—Now Under Way ***

At this point, it may be helpful to consider what might be viewed as a Bible parallel. Jesus Christ was anointed as the future King of God’s Kingdom in the fall of 29 C.E. Three and a half years later, in the spring of 33 C.E., he was resurrected as a mighty spirit person. Could it, then, be reasoned that since Jesus was enthroned in the fall of 1914, the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began three and a half years later, in the spring of 1918? That is an interesting possibility. Although this cannot be directly confirmed in the Bible, it is not out of harmony with other scriptures that indicate that the first resurrection got under way soon after Christ’s presence began.
***

However, this doesn't stop the Watchtower Society from claiming that they are the only ones that Jesus found worthy to appoint over all of His earthly belongings.

the truth said...

Edward Albright said...If you are referencing the Witnesses...they try the hardest for the truth.


Please supply the research and facts from the thousands upon thousands of other religions which proves your statement.

Have you thoroughly researched and examined all other faiths and their beliefs to honestly come to such a conclusion.

Besides that, how do you know there is not a group of people, outside of anyone you have ever encountered, trying hardder for truth? There are nearly 7 billion people on the earth. How many of those people do you really know?

Rondes shadow said...

Ronde
Your SUCH an idiot