Sunday, November 16, 2008

Points For Jehovah's Witnesses To Ponder Regarding Blood Transfusions

1- Would you allow your own family members to die for not accepting a blood transfusion? Remember that this policy has been changed though the years and it was not always taught. In addition this policy comes from an organization with many similar messed-up policies? So would you trust them and let your loved one die or allow them to live?
2- If it was illegal to steal an entire automobile, would it then be legal to just steal parts of that same car? Why would this same analogy not apply to Watchtower and Blood Fractions?
3- Even though Jesus' sermon on the mount covered a vast array of subjects on what is not acceptable, why was blood not listed even one time? Why did not Jesus just say, "No blood at all, in any circumstances whether animal or human for any purpose anywhere for all time? If this was so important don't you think it would have been mentioned? But he never said anything like that, anywhere.
4- Paul also had numerous warnings for Christians. But blood is was not one of them and is mentioned nowhere. Why not? Jesus a;sp had numerous warnings, but no where was blood mentioned.
5-The stakes by forbidding blood transfusions are huge. People die. Remember when the Watchtower taught no vaccinations, no organ transplants? Again, people doed without needing to. The Watchtower reversed it because they realized it was wrong. What does that say about the Watchtower? (Sadly, they will never reverse their stance on blood. It has gone to far with too many deaths. That is why they introduced fractions as being Biblically legal.) It is up to the Witnesses to personally reject their stance and preserve the lives of loved ones.
6- If you were not a Jehovah's Witness, would you have decided that blood transfusions were wrong?
7- Where does albumin come from? Please tell us wher it comes from. How about Hemoglobins, interferons, interleukins, clotting factors, globulins, albumin etc? Are these Watchtower approved fractions made with something other than blood? Do some research and see for yourself.
8- If the old law command to pour blood to the ground was done away with when Jesus died, why are Jehovah's Witnessess not allowed store their own blood for their own operation?
9- Why can't Jehovah's Witnesses donate blood since they obviously are allowed to take fractions of blood from the world's blood supply? Why can they not put back blood to the same place where they are allowed take it from?
10- Why are larger fractions of blood allowed over some of the smaller ones?
11- Are all other religions, scholars and conservative Jews wrong then? Are only Jehovah's Witnesses right? What about that long list of other embarrassing mistakes by the Watchtower? Does it occur to you that since the Watchtowe was wrong about all those other teachings, they might be wrong about blood too?
12- For a long time the Watchtower said an Organ transplant was like eating and called it cannibalism. Remember that? Why did the Watchtower change and now allow organ transplants? The Jehovah's Witness blood transfusion "is the same as eating" argument just got flushed down the drain. The Society's position on Organ Transplants "not being the same as eating" destroyed the Jehovah's Witness credibility that blood cannot be used.
13- Who gets to decide what fractions get to make the major list (and are not allowed), and which fractions make the minor list (and are allowed)? The toss of a coin?
14- What criteria is used to determine what fractions get to make the major list (and are not allowed), and which fractions make the minor list (and are allowed)? Why no to platelets, white blood cells, red blood cells and plasma, but yes to interferons, interleukens, globulins, clotting factors, hemoglobin etc. This list has no rhyme or reason?
15- What does the Watchtower's long list of mistakes on other medical issues does for its credibility with regard to the blood issue?
16-The Watchtower Organization has a terrible record in times past and currently with regards to medical, doctrinal and historical mistakes. One of the worst anywhere. When an organization decides to make decisions for all of its members, with very significant penalties imposed on those that do not follow such decisions, should not such an organization have a reputation of excellence in general, or at least in regards to similar kinds of issues? In this case medical issues that can have a very significant impact on people's lives?
17- What does the fact that the Watchtower was wrong on previous medical prohibitions against (vaccinations as well as organ transplants), which literally cost lives to be lost unnecessarily say about the Watchtower and it's blood doctrine? Does it inspire confidence?
18- Does having the very same religious organization making end of the world predictions a dozen times, in writing, all of which proved false, give even greater reason for concern with such an organization today? The reputation and trustworthiness of the Watchtower itself is relevant in regards to these other issues.
19- What effect should these past problems have on the overall credibility of this organization that is currently standing alone amongst all of the other world faiths by prohibiting blood transfusions of its members?
20- If fractions are not blood as Watchtower likes to try telling us, then why not allow all fractions? Why not make all blood fractions a conscience matter.

86 comments:

Anonymous said...

Yawn. Yet another copy/paste. You could at least proofread this stuff before you post it.

Anonymous said...

These are great questions.

Unfortunately, JWs are not allowed to think for themselves.

I've repeatedly asked JWs that comment on this blog to show me the Scripture which says hemoglobin is a conscience matter, but plasma is a sin.

Bottom line: JWs minds' are being controlled. Therefore, they will believe the Bible says whatever their religion tells them it says.

Like all other religions and all most Bible cults, their beliefs are based on a UNIQUE INTERPRETATION of Scripture. Nothing more, nothing less.

JW Facts

Voice of Reason said...

Stupidest blog post in a day.

"Would you allow your own family members to die for not accepting a blood transfusion?"

No Witness allows their own familyt to die. They take them to hospitals to get the best medical are.

Because hospitals are unable to save them is not the Witnesses allowing them to die.

Voice of Reason said...

anon:

"I've repeatedly asked JWs that comment on this blog to show me the Scripture which says hemoglobin is a conscience matter, but plasma is a sin."

Who says that it is a sin? If you want to believe it is a sin, then believe it. If you don't then, don't.

And no, JWs are not controlled.

Voice of Reason said...

"2- If it was illegal to steal an entire automobile, would it then be legal to just steal parts of that same car? Why would this same analogy not apply to Watchtower and Blood Fractions?"

That is a bad analogy.

Because this is not the Watchtower and blood fractions are not blood so they do not fall under the command to abstain from blood.

Voice of Reason said...

"3- Even though Jesus' sermon on the mount covered a vast array of subjects on what is not acceptable, why was blood not listed even one time? Why did not Jesus just say, "No blood at all, in any circumstances whether animal or human for any purpose anywhere for all time? If this was so important don't you think it would have been mentioned? But he never said anything like that, anywhere."

Why does he have to? Was he trying to please you? His followers do not have a problem with it.

Voice of Reason said...

"4- Paul also had numerous warnings for Christians. But blood is was not one of them and is mentioned nowhere. Why not? Jesus a;sp had numerous warnings, but no where was blood mentioned."

They did not do blood transfusions then so there was not much to comment on. They do them now so the apostles now comment on them.

Voice of Reason said...

"5-The stakes by forbidding blood transfusions are huge. People die. Remember when the Watchtower taught no vaccinations, no organ transplants? Again, people doed without needing to."

People die regardless.

And no the Watchtower did not teach no vaccinations or no organ transplants.

If peopled thought they did and applied, it, that was their choice.

Voice of Reason said...

"6- If you were not a Jehovah's Witness, would you have decided that blood transfusions were wrong?"

Those not JWs are not concerned with pleasing God and obeying his law.

Voice of Reason said...

"8- If the old law command to pour blood to the ground was done away with when Jesus died, why are Jehovah's Witnessess not allowed store their own blood for their own operation?"

Who said it was done away with? Not the apostles in Acts.

Voice of Reason said...

"9- Why can't Jehovah's Witnesses donate blood since they obviously are allowed to take fractions of blood from the world's blood supply? Why can they not put back blood to the same place where they are allowed take it from?"

What do you mean "can't"? Sure JWs can. But they choose not to.

What do you mean "are allowed to"?

But are implying that others make the decisions but that is not true.

Voice of Reason said...

"10- Why are larger fractions of blood allowed over some of the smaller ones?"

Again, this word 'allowed' is used with it should not be.

Voice of Reason said...

"11- Are all other religions, scholars and conservative Jews wrong then?"

Yes.

" Are only Jehovah's Witnesses right?"

Of course.


"What about that long list of other embarrassing mistakes by the Watchtower?"

What does the Watchtower have to do with this?

"Does it occur to you that since the Watchtower was wrong about all those other teachings, they might be wrong about blood too?"

You just asked if JWs are right. Well that would mean that the JWs that are not in the Watchtower are right but you imply that the JWs in the Watchtower are wrong.

Voice of Reason said...

"2- For a long time the Watchtower said an Organ transplant was like eating and called it cannibalism. "

So what if it is? It still says it is, if you read that part.

"Remember that? Why did the Watchtower change and now allow organ transplants?"

It never disallowed them.


" The Jehovah's Witness blood transfusion is the same as eating argument just got flushed down the drain."

No it did not.

" The Society's position on Organ Transplants "not being the same as eating" destroyed the Jehovah's Witness credibility that blood cannot be used.""

The two are not connected because transplants are not blood that is forbidden from the Bible.

Voice of Reason said...

"13- Who gets to decide what fractions get to make the major list (and are not allowed), and which fractions make the minor list (and are allowed)? The toss of a coin?"

Medical science says that blood had 4 major components.

Red blood cells is blood.
White blood cells is blood.
Plasma and platelets are blood.

The rest does not matter.

Voice of Reason said...

"14- What criteria is used to determine what fractions get to make the major list (and are not allowed), and which fractions make the minor list (and are allowed)? Why no to platelets, white blood cells, red blood cells and plasma, but yes to interferons, interleukens, globulins, clotting factors, hemoglobin etc. This list has no rhyme or reason?"

Because that which is broken from the components are not blood.

Voice of Reason said...

"15- What does the Watchtower's long list of mistakes on other medical issues does for its credibility with regard to the blood issue?"

The Watchtower is irrelevant to this issue. This is a choice that Jehovah's Witnesses make.

Voice of Reason said...

"16-The Watchtower Organization has a terrible record in times past and currently with regards to medical, doctrinal and historical mistakes. "

There is no such thing as a Watchtower organization so your accusation is meaningless.

" When an organization decides to make decisions for all of its members,"

Does not happen.


" with very significant penalties imposed on those that do not follow such decisions, should not such an organization have a reputation of excellence in general, or at least in regards to similar kinds of issues? "

JWs do have an excellent reputation in general and in regards to blood transfusions being bad medicine.


"In this case medical issues that can have a very significant impact on people's lives?"

But people make their own decisions.

Voice of Reason said...

"17- What does the fact that the Watchtower was wrong on previous medical prohibitions against (vaccinations as well as organ transplants), which literally cost lives to be lost unnecessarily say about the Watchtower and it's blood doctrine? Does it inspire confidence?"

The Watchtower was not wrong on vaccinations or organ transplants because they said nothing about them and did not forbid them.

And that did not cost lives.

The confidence is in the Bible.

Voice of Reason said...

"18- Does having the very same religious organization making end of the world predictions a dozen times, in writing, all of which proved false, give even greater reason for concern with such an organization today? The reputation and trustworthiness of the Watchtower itself is relevant in regards to these other issues."

There were not dozen of predictions.

Rutherford looked to 1925. Thus only one.

Voice of Reason said...

"19- What effect should these past problems have on the overall credibility of this organization that is currently standing alone amongst all of the other world faiths by prohibiting blood transfusions of its members?"

The Bible is what the credibility is in. Those that look to the Watchtower are not looking to the Bible. JWs look to the Watchtower.

Voice of Reason said...

"20- If fractions are not blood as Watchtower likes to try telling us, then why not allow all fractions? Why not make all blood fractions a conscience matter."

They are.

Voice of Reason said...

Question for Theocratic Joker:

Why is it that over 4000 people have died in Iraq, because if bad intel and bad decisions from the president, but yet people say they sacrificed, and died in honor and serving their country?

Why is that honored but yet if people die for serving their God, it is not?

Anonymous said...

Ronde is on a roll, today!

Did you miss your ride to your Indoctrination Session? Surely there was an afternoon witnessing group you could have joined?

JWs let their children die all the time. Whenever doctors want to give JW children blood, the parents object.

Thank goodness, the United States government normally sides with the child, and grants court orders, allowing the hospitals to ignore the cult parents, who are willing to sacrifice their children.

Transfuse away, baby! Transfuse, away!

When parents are too stupid to protect their own children, government has every right to get involved and usurp the parents.

JWs hate abortions, but not the killing of real, live children.

Disgusting.

Anonymous said...

There are thousands of active JWs that don't agree with their own religion's policy on blood.

AJWRB

Most of them must remain anonymous, as the cult would kick them out, for using their brains.

Voice of Reason said...

"JWs let their children die all the time. Whenever doctors want to give JW children blood, the parents object."

And how is that letting them die?

There are better alternatives than blood.

Voice of Reason said...

"Thank goodness, the United States government normally sides with the child, and grants court orders, allowing the hospitals to ignore the cult parents, who are willing to sacrifice their children."

If it is an unbaptized child, then the parents do not make the decisions. The blood doctrine only applies to baptized ones.

voice of reason said...

I had a lot of bleeding with the birth of my last child. It was a no-brainer to get some of the real stuff if I wanted to be the one to raise my child.

rondes shadow said...

t. j. ronde
There are no better alternatives to blood. There are only alternatives.

t. j. ronde
Blood fractions are blood fractions.

t. j. ronde
The WTBTS did teach vaccinations and organ transplants were wrong. I was on a disfellowshipping committee and removed a person from the congregation for having one.

t. j. ronde
Your SUCH and idiot

Voice of Reason said...

"I had a lot of bleeding with the birth of my last child. It was a no-brainer to get some of the real stuff if I wanted to be the one to raise my child.

November 16, 2008 2:23 PM"

I did not write this.

That was an unreasonable response.

Voice of Reason said...

"The WTBTS did teach vaccinations and organ transplants were wrong. I was on a disfellowshipping committee and removed a person from the congregation for having one."

That is your fault and you are the one to blame for applying standards that are not biblical. But the WTS did not teach that transplants were a disfellowshipping matter.

But abstaining from blood is from the Bible.

"There are no better alternatives to blood. There are only alternatives."

Sure there are. Exchanging blood exchanges germs and other problems from people to people.

Anonymous said...

Rondes shadow said...

t. j. rondeThe WTBTS did teach vaccinations and organ transplants were wrong. I was on a disfellowshipping committee and removed a person from the congregation for having one.


What year did this take place?

Anonymous said...

Ronde wrote: "Exchanging blood exchanges germs and other problems from people to people"

I'm gonna go out on a limb, here, and assume you took Watchtower's advice and didn't pursue higher education.

Voice of Reason said...

blood transfusions are worse than double dipping your chips. Passing bodily fluids.

that is gross

Anonymous said...

JW Facts

Your fear of blood is what cult experts refer to as a phobia.

rondes shadow said...

It took place in the year of 1978. In 1980 The "prohibition" against transplants moved into the realm of "conscience".

It is never the fault of individual elders in disfellowshipping Ronde.. The WTBTS accept the disfellowshipping on the basis of their guidelines.

The fault of the individual elders collectively is their adherence and application of aforesaid guidelines. They are not scriptural and easy to use for selfish motives.

Your such an idiot.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

No Witness allows their own familyt to die. They take them to hospitals to get the best medical are.

Because hospitals are unable to save them is not the Witnesses allowing them to die.
===================================

VoR, Sometimes the best medical care involves a tissue transplant, like a organ transplant (allowed by the Watchtower Society) or blood transfusion (arbitrarily not allowed by the Watchtower Society). What you're suggesting is akin to taking your car to a garage with a good reputation. Then when the mechanic says you need an oil change, you insist that you want the best service possible, but then tell the mechanic he can replace the engine but not change the oil.

You can't claim to want the best possible care and then reject the best possible care.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

anon:

"I've repeatedly asked JWs that comment on this blog to show me the Scripture which says hemoglobin is a conscience matter, but plasma is a sin."

Who says that it is a sin? If you want to believe it is a sin, then believe it. If you don't then, don't.

The Watchtower Society says it's a sin.

*** w91 6/15 p. 10 pars. 10-11 Saving Life With Blood—How? ***

10 Of course, back then blood was not being transfused, for experiments with transfusions began only near the 16th century. Yet, in the 17th century, a professor of anatomy at the University of Copenhagen objected: ‘Those who drag in the use of human blood for internal remedies of diseases appear to misuse it and to sin gravely. Cannibals are condemned. Why do we not abhor those who stain their gullet with human blood? Similar is the receiving of alien blood from a cut vein, either through the mouth or by instruments of transfusion. The authors of this operation are held in terror by the divine law.’

11 Yes, even in centuries past, people saw that God’s law ruled out both the taking of blood into the veins and the taking of it through the mouth. Realizing this may help people today to understand the position that Jehovah’s Witnesses take, one that accords with God’s stand. While highly valuing life and appreciating medical care, true Christians respect life as a gift from the Creator, so they do not try to sustain life by taking in blood.
***

*** w91 6/15 p. 15 par. 9 Walk as Instructed by Jehovah ***

9 Appreciation for this value helps Jehovah’s Witnesses to be resolved not to misuse blood, even if a physician sincerely claims that a transfusion is vital. He may believe that potential benefits of a transfusion outweigh the health risks posed by the blood itself. But the Christian cannot ignore an even graver risk, the risk of losing God’s approval by agreeing to a misuse of blood. Paul once spoke of those who “practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth.” Why was any sin of that sort so serious? Because such a man “has trampled upon the Son of God and . . . has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified.”
***

There is no option to accept a blood transfusion and remain one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

From the list of things that Jehovah's Witnesses are disfellowshipped for in the elder's manual "Pay Attention"...

Uphold Jehovah's Righteousness
Wrongdoing is increasing in frequency and in depravi-
ty; such can infiltrate and affect the Christian congrega-
tion . (2 Tim . 3 :1-5, 13 ; Jude 3, 4, 11-13)
The Scriptures clearly show that Jehovah forbids certain
conduct among his clean people ; brothers need to up-
hold Jehovah's righteous standards regarding the follow-
ing:
...
Failure to abstain from blood . (Gen . 9 :4 ; Acts 15 :20,
28,29)


So, you're wrong again VoR, if you're going to stick up for your faith, you should at least know what you're supposed to believe!



And no, JWs are not controlled.

Oh no? then why does the Watchtower society use so many cult control techniques on its members?

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"2- If it was illegal to steal an entire automobile, would it then be legal to just steal parts of that same car? Why would this same analogy not apply to Watchtower and Blood Fractions?"

That is a bad analogy.

Because this is not the Watchtower and blood fractions are not blood so they do not fall under the command to abstain from blood.
=================================

Why is it a bad analogy? Your explanation doesn't break GBL's car analogy. You say blood fractions are not blood but car parts aren't cars either.

Why is this one command special? According to the Watchtower Society, Christians are to abstain from blood. Christians are also to abstain from fornication.

If we apply the concept that certain parts of blood are acceptable to take then certainly it would be OK to engage in sex outside of marriage if those people only have contact with certain parts of the other person.

See how ridiculous that sounds? When someone is supposed to abstain from something, they are supposed to avoid it completely. That's the point GBL is trying to make. Why is it that in this one command to abstain from something is it acceptable to take that something apart and use the parts individually?

Please quote scriptures in your answer that support your claim that using fractions of blood is acceptable even though the command says...

(Acts 15:19-21) 19 Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, 20 but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21 . . .

As a side note, since it's acceptable to take blood fractions, is it also acceptable to have idols in your house as long as they are not whole? Let's face it, Shiva could spare an arm.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"3- Even though Jesus' sermon on the mount covered a vast array of subjects on what is not acceptable, why was blood not listed even one time? Why did not Jesus just say, "No blood at all, in any circumstances whether animal or human for any purpose anywhere for all time? If this was so important don't you think it would have been mentioned? But he never said anything like that, anywhere."

Why does he have to? Was he trying to please you? His followers do not have a problem with it.
==================================

Jesus would have had to mention the blood issue if it were a core part of the Christian doctrine... one where Christians were supposed to die for.

As it stands, the command in Acts was admonishing Christians to steer clear of false worship which, at the time involved ritualistic drinking of blood. It wasn't the blood itself that was banned, it was the context in which the blood was taken.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"4- Paul also had numerous warnings for Christians. But blood is was not one of them and is mentioned nowhere. Why not? Jesus a;sp had numerous warnings, but no where was blood mentioned."

They did not do blood transfusions then so there was not much to comment on. They do them now so the apostles now comment on them.

==================================

I see... so the apostles are talking to you are they? Who are these apostles that are making these comments? Or have you accepted the Watchtower Society's claim that they are the voice of God?

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"5-The stakes by forbidding blood transfusions are huge. People die. Remember when the Watchtower taught no vaccinations, no organ transplants? Again, people doed without needing to."

People die regardless.

And no the Watchtower did not teach no vaccinations or no organ transplants.

If peopled thought they did and applied, it, that was their choice.
===================================

It's true, on a long enough timescale the survival rate for everyone drops to zero. However, when a young girl has leukemia and the only option to save her life is a blood tranfusion, rejecting that medical treatment results in a completely unnecessary death...

*** g94 5/22 pp. 9-10 Youths Who Have “Power Beyond What Is Normal” ***

Now she was in the Valley Children’s Hospital in Fresno, California, U.S.A. She had been admitted there for what appeared to be a kidney infection. Tests revealed, however, that she had leukemia. The doctors treating Lenae determined that packed red blood cells and platelets should be transfused and chemotherapy started immediately.

Lenae said that she wanted no blood or blood products, that she had been taught that God forbids that... Later my pediatrician came in and told me he was sorry but nothing would help me but the chemotherapy and transfusions. He left and said he would be back later.

“When he left, I started to cry very hard because he had taken care of me all my life, and now I felt like he was betraying me. When he came in later, I told him how he had made me feel—that he didn’t care about me anymore. This surprised him, and he said he was sorry. He did not mean to hurt me. He looked at me and said: ‘Well, Lenae, if that is the way it has to be, then I will see you in heaven.’ He took his glasses off and, with big tears in his eyes, said he loved me and gave me a big hug. I thanked him and said: ‘Thank you. I love you too, Dr. Gillespie, but I hope to live on a paradise earth in the resurrection.’”

When alone with her, they told her that she was dying of leukemia and said: “But blood transfusions will prolong your life. If you refuse blood, you will die in a few days.”
...

After a long, difficult night, at 6:30 a.m., September 22, 1993, Lenae fell asleep in death in the arms of her mother.
***

And you're also wrong about organ transplants and vaccines.

Organ transplants were considered cannibalism...

*** w67 11/15 p. 702 Questions From Readers ***

It is of interest to note that in its discussion of cannibalism the EncyclopÅ“dia of Religion and Ethics, edited by James Hastings, Volume 3, page 199, has a section designated “Medical cannibalism.” It points out that this is associated with the idea of obtaining strength or some medical virtue from the flesh of another human, adding: “The most remarkable example of this practice occurs in China. Among the poor it is not uncommon for a member of the family to cut a piece of flesh from arm or leg, which is cooked and then given to a sick relative. . . . The whole superstition in China is certainly connected with the idea that the eating of the human body strengthens the eater. . . . Among savages the practice is found of giving a sick man some blood to drink drawn from the veins of a relative.” Some might argue that therapeutic practices involved in modern organ transplant operations are more scientific than such primitive treatment. Nonetheless, it is evident that men practicing medicine have not been beyond using treatments that amount to cannibalism if such have been thought justified.
...
What should be done, though, when a Christian is asked to provide an organ for use in another person or to allow the body part of a deceased loved one to be so used? We might ask, If a Christian decided personally that he would not sustain his own life with the flesh of another imperfect human, could he conscientiously allow part of his flesh to be used in that way to sustain someone else?
***

Now on to vaccinations...

"Vaccination never prevented anything and never will, and is the most barbarous practice...We are in the last days; and the devil is slowly losing his hold, making a strenuous effort meanwhile to do all the damage he can, and to his credit can such evils be placed...Use your rights as American citizens to forever abolish the devilish practice of vaccinations." The Golden Age, 1921-OCT-12, Page 17

"The public is not generally aware of how large an industry is the manufacture of serums, anti-toxins and vaccines, or that big business controls the whole industry. . . . the boards of health endeavor to start an epidemic of smallpox, diphtheria, or typhoid that they may reap a golden harvest by inoculating an unthinking community for the very purpose of disposing of this manufactured filth." The Golden Age, 1923-JAN-3, Page 214

"Thinking people would rather have smallpox than vaccination, because the latter sows seeds of syphilis, cancers, eczema, erysipelas, scrofula, consumption, even leprosy and many other loathsome affections. Hence the practice of vaccinations is a crime, an outrage, and a delusion." The Golden Age, 1929-JAN-5, Page 502

"Vaccination is a direct violation of the everlasting covenant that God made with Noah after the flood." The Golden Age, 1931-JAN-4, Page 293

"As vaccination is a direct injection of animal matter in the blood stream, vaccination is a direct violation of the law of Jehovah God." The Golden Age, 1935-APR-2, Page 465

"Vaccination is a direct violation of the holy law of Jehovah God… I have no alternative. I must obey Jehovah’s law." The Golden Age, 1935-APR-24, Page 471. This article quoted court testimony of Maria Braught.

I'm thinking I should offer VoR a free home Watchtower Society Bible-based publication study so that he will actually know what he's talking about before he tries to stick up for his cult.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"6- If you were not a Jehovah's Witness, would you have decided that blood transfusions were wrong?"

Those not JWs are not concerned with pleasing God and obeying his law.
====================================

Fallacy! If that were true then Jehovah's Witnesses would not knock on doors every weekend. They go door to door because they believe there are people who are interested in serving God but are not yet part of the cult.

There are many people who are concerned with pleasing God and recognize that refusing a life-saving medical treatment is actually showing a gross disrespect for life.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"8- If the old law command to pour blood to the ground was done away with when Jesus died, why are Jehovah's Witnessess not allowed store their own blood for their own operation?"

Who said it was done away with? Not the apostles in Acts.
====================================

You're right, it wasn't the apostles in Acts, it was Jesus...

(Luke 24:44-45) 44 He now said to them: “These are my words which I spoke to YOU while I was yet with YOU, that all the things written in the law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms about me must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened up their minds fully to grasp the meaning of the Scriptures,

...and the apostles did understand that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic Law...

(Galatians 3:24-25) . . .Consequently the Law has become our tutor leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith. 25 But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor.

While there is nothing wrong with following the Mosaic Law, Christians are not under the Mosaic Law and have no right to impose it on others.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"9- Why can't Jehovah's Witnesses donate blood since they obviously are allowed to take fractions of blood from the world's blood supply? Why can they not put back blood to the same place where they are allowed take it from?"

What do you mean "can't"? Sure JWs can. But they choose not to.

What do you mean "are allowed to"?

But are implying that others make the decisions but that is not true.
===================================



*** w05 3/15 p. 18 par. 8 “You Were Bought With a Price” ***

8 Consider the example of Elena, a young Christian in Spain. She had several classmates who were blood donors. They knew that Elena, one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, would not donate blood or accept blood transfusions
***

Notice that the article that "Elena, one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, would not donate blood or accept blood transfusions", not that Elena wouldn't donate blood or accept blood transfusions on her own. She wouldn't donate or accept blood because she was one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Jehovah's Witnesses do not have a choice in the matter if they would like to continue being one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Furthermore, one of Jehovah's Witnesses can't even donate blood for their own use...

*** w00 10/15 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***

Occasionally, a doctor will urge a patient to deposit his own blood weeks before surgery (preoperative autologous blood donation, or PAD) so that if the need arises, he could transfuse the patient with his own stored blood. However, such collecting, storing, and transfusing of blood directly contradicts what is said in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Blood is not to be stored; it is to be poured out—returned to God, as it were. Granted, the Mosaic Law is not in force now. Nevertheless, Jehovah’s Witnesses respect the principles God included in it, and they are determined to ‘abstain from blood.’ Hence, we do not donate blood, nor do we store for transfusion our blood that should be ‘poured out.’ That practice conflicts with God’s law.
***

So others are making the decisions. Please look up what Jehovah's Witnesses believe as opposed to making up your own doctrine as you go along.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"10- Why are larger fractions of blood allowed over some of the smaller ones?"

Again, this word 'allowed' is used with it should not be.
====================================

Again, notice the post I made earlier quoting the elder's manual "Pay Attention..." where it instructs elders to disfellowship those who 'misuse' blood. Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to take blood transfusions.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"11- Are all other religions, scholars and conservative Jews wrong then?"

Yes.



" Are only Jehovah's Witnesses right?"

Of course.

This is the cult control technique known as exclusivism

"What about that long list of other embarrassing mistakes by the Watchtower?"

What does the Watchtower have to do with this?

What does the Watchtower Society have to do with the mistakes made by the Watchtower? Do you actually read what you write before you post?

"Does it occur to you that since the Watchtower was wrong about all those other teachings, they might be wrong about blood too?"

You just asked if JWs are right. Well that would mean that the JWs that are not in the Watchtower are right but you imply that the JWs in the Watchtower are wrong.

Nice try avoiding the issue. This isn't about membership in the leagal entities of the Watchtower Society. This is about the Watchtower Society's shifting policies ( like organ transplants and vaccines) that were responsible for countless deaths but then were reversed. If the Watchtower Society has changed so many policies on medical treatment in the past how can one of Jehovah's Witnesses know that the policy on blood transfusions won't be reversed a week after they die because they refused one?

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

" The Society's position on Organ Transplants "not being the same as eating" destroyed the Jehovah's Witness credibility that blood cannot be used.""

The two are not connected because transplants are not blood that is forbidden from the Bible.
====================================

Ritualistic drinking of blood is forbidden along with idolatry and fornication.

(Acts 15:19-20) . . .Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, 20 but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

Those from the 'nations' that were turning to God no doubt had previously engaged in practices that they needed to leave behind with their former religion, namely idolatry, fornication and consuming blood. It's all about context. Luke was talking about new Christians who were coming from various other faiths. People weren't just going around drinking blood for no reason, it was in connection with non-christian worship.

Transplants are transplants whether they are organ transplants or blood transfusions. The Scriptures do not prohibit Christians from accepting life-saving medical treatment.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"13- Who gets to decide what fractions get to make the major list (and are not allowed), and which fractions make the minor list (and are allowed)? The toss of a coin?"

Medical science says that blood had 4 major components.

Red blood cells is blood.
White blood cells is blood.
Plasma and platelets are blood.

The rest does not matter.
==================================

Actually, medical science says that there are many, many components in human blood.



List of human blood components and their concentrations
Compound Comments In whole blood (g/cm³) In plasma or serum (g/cm³)
Water Solvent 0.81-0.86 0.93-0.95
Acetoacetate Produced in liver 8-40 ×10-7 4-43 ×10-7
Acetone product of bodyfat breakdown - 3-20 ×10-6
Acetylcholine Neurotransmitter - 6.6-8.2 ×10-8
Adenosine triphosphate Energy storage - -
" total 3.1-5.7 ×10-4 -
" phosphorus 5-10 ×10-5 -
Adrenocorticotrophic hormone Stimulates the adrenal cortex - 2.5-12 ×10-11
" @ 6AM, mean - 5.5 ×10-11
" @ 6AM, maximum - 12 ×10-11
" @ 6PM, mean - 3.5 ×10-11
" @ 6PM, maximum - <7.5 ×10-11
Alanine Amino acid 2.7-5.5 ×10-5 2.4-7.6 ×10-5
Albumin Blood plasma protein - 3.5-5.2 ×10-2
Aluminum - 1-40 ×10-8 1-88 ×10-8
Aldosterone Regulates electrolyte balance - -
" supine - 3-10 ×10-11
" standing, male - 6-22 ×10-11
" standing, female - 5-30 ×10-11
Amino acids Protein building blocks - -
" total 3.8-5.3 ×10-4 -
" nitrogen 4.6-6.8 ×10-5 3.0-5.5 ×10-5
alpha-Aminobutyric acid - 1-2 ×10-6 1-2 ×10-6
d-Aminolevulinic acid - - 1.5-2.3 ×10-7
Ammonia nitrogen - 1-2 ×10-6 1.0-4.9 ×10-7
cAMP Intracellular signal transduction molecule - -
" male - 5.6-10.9 ×10-9
" female - 3.6-8.9 ×10-9
Androstenedione Steroid hormone -
" male >18 yrs - 2-30 ×10-10
" female >18 yrs - 8-30 ×10-10
Androsterone Steroid hormone - 1.5 ×10-7
Angiotensin I Angiotensin II precursor - 1.1-8.8 ×10-11
Angiotensin II Vasoconstrictor - 1.2-3.6 ×10-11
Alpha 1-antitrypsin Serine protease inhibitor - 7.8-20 ×10-4
Arginine Amino acid 6-17 ×10-6 1.3-3.6 ×10-5
Arsenic - - -
" normal range 2-62 ×10-9 -
" chronic poisoning 100-500 ×10-9 -
" acute poisoning 600-9300 ×10-9 -
Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) Important vitamin 1-15 ×10-6 6-20 ×10-6
Aspartic acid Amino acid - 0-3 ×10-6
Aspartic acid (in WBCs) - 2.5-4.0 ×10-4 9-12 ×10-6
Bicarbonate Buffer in blood - 5-5.7 × 10-4
Bile acids Digestive function, bilirubin excretion 2-30 × 10-6 3-30 × 10-6
Bilirubin Hemoglobin metabolite 2-14 × 10-6 1-10 × 10-6
Biotin (Vitamin H) Gluconeogenesis,metabolize leucine,fatty acid synthesis 7-17 × 10-9 9-16 × 10-9
Blood Urea Nitrogen (BUN) - - 8-23 × 10-5
Bradykinin - - 7 × 10-11
Bromide - - 7-10 × 10-9
Cadmium - - -
" normal 1-5 × 10-9 -
" toxic 0.1-3 × 10-6 -
Calciferol (Vitamin D2) Maintain calcium and phosphorus levels - 1.7-4.1 × 10-8
Calcitonin (CT) Hormone - <1.0 × 10-10
Calcium Bones, Ca2+ - -
" ionized 4.48-4.92 × 10-5 4.25-5.25 × 10-5
" total - 8.4-11.5 × 10-5
Carbon dioxide Respiratory gas - -
" arterial 8.8-10.8 × 10-4 3.0-7.9 × 10-5
" venous 9.8-11.8 × 10-4 3.3-8.3 × 10-5
Carboxyhemoglobin(as HbCO) - - -
" nonsmokers 0.5-1.5% total Hb -
" smokers, 1-2 packs/day 4-5% total Hb -
" smokers, 2 packs/day 8-9% total Hb -
" toxic >20% total Hb -
" lethal >50% total Hb -
Carcinoembryonic antigen - - <2.5 × 10-9
beta-Carotene Vitamin A dimer - 3-25 × 10-7
Carotenoids Antioxidant 2.4-23.1 × 10-7 -
Cephalin - 3-11.5 × 10-4 0-1 × 10-4
Ceruloplasmin - - 1.5-6 × 10-4
Chloride, as NaCl - 4.5-5 × 10-3 3.5-3.8 × 10-3
Cholecalciferol (Vitamin D3) - - -
" 1, 25-dihydroxy - 2.5-4.5 × 10-11
" 24,25-dihydroxy - 1.5 × 10-9
" 25-hydroxy - 1.4-8 × 10-8
Cholecystokinin (pancreozymin) Stimulates fat and protein digestion - 6.04 × 10-11
Cholesterol Steroid lipid - -
" LDLC - 0.5-2.0 × 10-3
" HDLC - 2.9-9.0 × 10-4
" total 1.15-2.25 × 10-3 1.2-2 × 10-3
Choline, total - 1.1-3.1 × 10-4 3.6-3.5 × 10-4
Chorionic gonadotropin Progesterone secretion during pregnancy - -
" Menstrual - 0-3 × 10-11
" Pregnancy, 1st trimester - 5-3300 × 10-10
" Pregnancy, 2nd trimester - 20-1000 × 10-10
" Pregnancy, 3rd trimester - 20-50 × 10-10
" Menopausal - 3-30 × 10-11
Citric acid - 1.3-2.5 × 10-5 1.6-3.2 × 10-5
Citrulline - - 2-10 × 10-6
Coagulation Factors - - -
" Fibrinogen 1.2-1.6 × 10-3 2-4 × 10-3
" Prothrombin - 1 × 10-4
" Tissue thromboplastin - 1 × 10-6
" Proaccelerin - 5-12 × 10-6
" Proconvertin - 1 × 10-6
" Antihemophilic factor - 1 × 10-7
" Christmas factor - 4 × 10-6
" Stuart factor - 5 × 10-6
" Plasma thrmb. anteced. - 4 × 10-6
" Hageman factor - 2.9 × 10-5
" Fibrin stabilizing factor - 1 × 10-5
" Fibrin split products - <1 × 10-5
" Fletcher factor - 5 × 10-5
" Fitzgerald factor - 7 × 10-5
" von Willebrand factor - 7 × 10-6
Cobalamin (Vitamin B12) Needed for nerve cells, red blood cells, and to make DNA 6-14 × 10-10 1-10 × 10-10
Cocarboxylase - - 7-9 × 10-8
Complement system - - -
" C1q - 5.8-7.2 × 10-5
" C1r - 2.5-3.8 × 10-5
" C1s (C1 esterase) - 2.5-3.8 × 10-5
" C2 - 2.2-3.4 × 10-5
" C3( b1C-globulin) - 8-15.5 × 10-4
" factor B (C3 proactivator) - 2-4.5 × 10-4
" C4 (b1E-globulin) - 1.3-3.7 × 10-4
" C4 binding protein - 1.8-3.2 × 10-4
" C5 (b1F-globulin) - 5.1-7.7 × 10-5
" C6 - 4.8-6.4 × 10-5
" C7 - 4.9-7 × 10-5
" C8 - 4.3-6.3 × 10-5
" C9 - 4.7-6.9 × 10-5
" Properdin - 2.4-3.2 × 10-5
Compound S - - 1-3 × 10-9
Copper - 9-15 × 10-7 -
" male - 7-14 × 10-7
" female - 8-15.5 × 10-7
Corticosteroids Steroid hormones - 1-4 × 10-6
Corticosterone - - 4-20 × 10-9
Cortisol Inhibits CRH secretion - 3-23 × 10-8
" 8 AM - 6-23 × 10-8
" 4 PM - 3-15 × 10-8
" 10 PM - ~50% of 8 AM value
C-peptide - - -
" fasting - 0.5-2.0 × 10-9
" maximum - 4 × 10-9
C-reactive protein Plasma protein - 6.8-820 × 10-8
Creatine Assists muscle cell energy supply - -
" male - 1.7-5.0 × 10-6
" female - 3.5-9.3 × 10-6
Creatinine - - -
" male - 0.8-1.5 × 10-5
" female - 0.7-1.2 × 10-5
Cyanide - - -
" nonsmokers - 4 × 10-9
" smokers - 6 × 10-9
" nitroprusside therapy - 10-60 × 10-9
" toxic - >100 × 10-9
" lethal - >1000 × 10-9
Cysteine Amino acid 6-12 × 10-6 1.8-5 × 10-5
Dehydroepiandrosterone(DHEA) Steroid hormone - -
" aged 1-4 yrs - 0.2-0.4 × 10-9
" aged 4-8 yrs - 0.1-1.9 × 10-9
" aged 8-10 yrs - 0.2-2.9 × 10-9
" aged 10-12 yrs - 0.5-9.2 × 10-9
" aged 12-14 yrs - 0.9-20 × 10-9
" aged 14-16 yrs - 2.5-20 × 10-9
" male - 0.8-10 × 10-9
" female, premenopausal - 2.0-15 × 10-9
DHEA sulfate male - 1.99-3.34 × 10-6
DHEA sulfate female - -
" newborn - 1.67-3.64 × 10-6
" pre-pubertal children - 1.0-6.0 × 10-7
" premenopausal - 8.2-33.8 × 10-7
" pregnancy - 2.3-11.7 × 10-7
" postmenopausal - 1.1-6.1 × 10-7
11-Deoxycortisol - - 1-7 × 10-8
Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) - - -
" male - 3-8 × 10-9
" female - 1-10 × 10-10
Diphosphoglycerate (phosphate) - 8-16 × 10-5 -
DNA The molecule of heredity - 0-1.6 × 10-5
Dopamine Neurotransmitter - <1.36 × 10-10
Enzymes, total - - <6 × 10-5
Epidermal growth factor (EGF) - - <1 × 10-11
Epinephrine Neurotransmitter - -
" after 15 min rest - 3.1-9.5 × 10-11
" when emitted 3.8 × 10-9 2-2.5 × 10-9
Ergothioneine - 1-20 × 10-5 -
Erythrocytes (#/cm³) - - -
" adult male, avg. (range) 5.2 (4.6-6.2) × 109
" adult female, avg. (range) 4.6 (4.2-5.4) × 109
" children, varies with age 4.5-5.1 × 109
" reticulocytes 25-75 × 106
Erythropoietin - - -
" adult, normal - 0.5-2.5 × 10-10
" pregnant - 2.7-6.2 × 10-10
" hypoxia or anemia - 0.8-8.0 × 10-8
Estradiol (E2) - - -
" male - 8-36 × 10-12
" female, follicular(days 1-10) - 1-9 × 10-11
" female, mean - 5 × 10-11
" female, pre-fertile (days 10-12) - 10-15 × 10-11
" female, fertile (days 12-14) - 35-60 × 10-11
" female, luteal (days 15-28) - 20-40 × 10-11
" female, pregnancy - 3-70 × 10-7
" female, postmenopausal - 1-3 × 10-11
Estriol (E3) - - -
" nonpregnant - <2 × 10-9
" pregnancy, weeks 22-30 - 3-5 × 10-9
" pregnancy, weeks 32-37 - 6-11 × 10-9
" pregnancy, weeks 38-41 - 25-170 × 10-9
Estrogen - - -
" male - 4-11.5 × 10-11
" female, prepubertal - <4 × 10-11
" female, 1-10 days - 6.1-39.4 × 10-11
" female, 11-20 days - 12.2-43.7 × 10-11
" female, 21-30 days - 15.6-35 × 10-11
" female, postmenopausal - <4 × 10-11
Estrone (E1) - - -
" male - 2.9-17 × 10-11
" female, follicular - 2-15 × 10-11
" female, 1-10 days of cycle - 4.3-18 × 10-11
" female, 11-20 days of cycle - 7.5-19.6 × 10-11
" female, 20-29 days of cycle - 13.1-20.1 × 10-11
" pregnancy, weeks 22-30 - 3-5 × 10-9
" pregnancy, weeks 32-37 - 5-6 × 10-9
" pregnancy, weeks 38-41 - 7-10 × 10-9
Ethanol - - -
" social high - 0.5 × 10-3
" reduced coordination - 0.8 × 10-3
" depression of CNS - >1 × 10-3
" confusion, falling down - 2.0 × 10-3
" loss of consciousness - 3.0 × 10-3
" coma, death - >4 × 10-3
Fat, neutral see Triglycerides - -
Fatty acids, nonesterified (free) - 8-25 × 10-5
Fatty acids, esterified - 2.5-3.9 × 10-3 7-20 × 10-5
Fatty acids, total - - 1.9-4.5 × 10-3
Ferritin -
" male - 1.5-30 × 10-8
" female - 0.9-18 × 10-8
alpha-1-Fetoprotein - - 0-2 × 10-8
Flavine adenine dinucleotide - - 8-12 × 10-8
Fluoride - 1-4.5 × 10-7 1-4.5 × 10-7
Folate - - 2.2-17.3 × 10-9
" in erythrocyte - 1.67-7.07 × 10-7
Folic acid 2.3-5.2 × 10-8 1.6-2 × 10-8
Fructose 0-5 × 10-5 7-8 × 10-5
Furosemide glucuronide - 1-400 × 10-6
Galactose (children) - <2 × 10-4
Gastric inhibitory peptide (GIP) - <1.25-4.0 × 10-10
Gastrin -
" mean - 7 × 10-11
" maximum - <20 × 10-11
Globulin, - - total 2.2-4 × 10-2
alpha-1-Globulin - 1-4 × 10-3
alpha-2-Globulin - 4-10 × 10-3
beta-Globulin - 5-12 × 10-3
gamma-Globulin - 6-17 × 10-3
Glucagon -
" range - 5-15 × 10-11
" mean - 7.1-7.9 × 10-11
Glucosamine - - -
" fetus 4-6 × 10-4 4.2-5.5 × 10-4
" child 5-7 × 10-4 5.2-6.9 × 10-4
" adult 6-8 × 10-4 6.1-8.2 × 10-4
" aged 7-9 × 10-4 7.0-8.9 × 10-4
Glucose -
" newborn 2-3 × 10-4 -
" adult 6.5-9.5 × 10-4 7-10.5 × 10-4
" diabetic 14-120 × 10-4 -
Glucuronic acid 4.1-9.3 × 10-5 8-11 × 10-6
Glutamic acid - 2-28 × 10-6
Glutamine - 4.6-10.6 × 10-5
Glutathione, reduced 2.5-4.1 × 10-4 0
Glycerol, free - 2.9-17.2 × 10-6
Glycine 1.7-2.3 × 10-5 8-54 × 10-6
Glycogen 1.2-16.2 × 10-5 0
Glycoprotein, acid - 4-15 × 10-4
cGMP - 0.6-4.4 × 10-9
Gonadotropic releasing hormone - 1-80 × 10-12
Guanidine 1.8-2.3 × 10-6 -
Haptoglobin - 3-22 × 10-4
Hemoglobin 1.2-1.75 × 10-1 1-4 × 10-5
" newborn 1.65-1.95 × 10-1 -
" children, varies with age 1.12-1.65 × 10-1 -
" adult, male 1.4-1.8 × 10-1 -
" adult, female 1.2-1.6 × 10-1 -
" inside erythrocyte ~3.3 × 10-1 -
" per red blood cell 27-32 picograms -
Hexosephosphate P 1.4-5 × 10-5 0-2 × 10-6
Histamine 6.7-8.6 × 10-8 -
Histidine 9-17 × 10-6 1.1-3.8 × 10-5
Hydrogen ion(pH 7.4) 4 × 10-11 -
beta-Hydroxybutyric acid 1-6 × 10-6 1-9 × 10-6
17-Hydroxycorticosteroids 4-10 × 10-8 -
17-Hydroxyprogesterone - - -
" male - 20-250 × 10-11
" female, follicular - 20-80 × 10-11
" female, luteal - 80-300 × 10-11
" female, postmenopausal - 4-50 × 10-11
" female, child - 20-140 × 10-11
Antibodies - - -
" Immunoglobulin A (IgA) - 5-39 × 10-4
" Immunoglobulin D (IgD) - 0.5-8.0 × 10-5
" Immunoglobulin G (IgG) - 5.0-19 × 10-3
" Immunoglobulin M (IgM) - 3.0-30 × 10-4
" Immunoglobulin E (IgE) - <5 × 10-7
Indican - - 8-50 × 10-7
Inositol - - 3-7 × 10-6
Insulin - - 2.0-8.4 × 10-10
Insulin-like growth factor - - 9.9-50 × 10-8
Iodine, total - 2.4-3.2 × 10-8 4.5-14.5 × 10-8
Iron, adult - 4-6 × 10-4 6-18 × 10-7
Isoleucine - 9-15 × 10-6 1.2-4.2 × 10-5
Ketone bodies - 2.3-10 × 10-6 1.5-30 × 10-6
alpha-Ketonic acids, adult - 1-30 × 10-6 -
L-Lactate - - -
" arterial <11.3 × 10-5 4.5-14.4 × 10-5
" venous 8.1-15.3 × 10-5 4.5-19.8 × 10-5
Lead - - -
" normal 1-5 × 10-7 1-7.8 × 10-8
" toxic >6-10 × 10-7 -
Lecithin - 1.1-1.2 × 10-3 1-2.25 × 10-3
Leptin - 1.2 × 10-8 -
Leucine - 1.4-2 × 10-5 1.2-5.2 × 10-5
Leukocytes (#/cm³) Total: - - -
" total, birth 9.0-30.0 × 106 -
" total, pediatric 4.5-15.5 × 106 -
" total, adult, range 4.3-11.0 × 106 -
" total, adult, median 7.0 × 106 -
" Neutrophil granulocytes, birth 6.0-26.0 × 106 -
" Neutrophils, pediatric 1.5-8.5 × 106 -
" Neutrophils, adult, range 1.83-7.25 × 106 -
" Neutrophils, adult, median 3.65 × 106 -
" Eosinophil granulocytes birth 0.4 × 106 -
" Eosinophils, pediatric 0.2-0.3 × 106 -
" Eosinophils, adult, range 0.05-0.7 × 106 -
" Eosinophils, adult, median 0.15 × 106 -
" Basophil granulocytes, adult, range 0.015-0.15 × 106 -
" Basophils, adult, median 0.03 × 106 -
" Lymphocytes, birth 2-11 × 106 -
" Lymphocyte, pediatric 1.5-8.0 × 106 -
" Lymphocyte, adult, range 1.5-4.0 × 106 -
" Lymphocyte, adult, median 2.5 × 106 -
" Monocytes, birth, range 0.4-3.1 × 106 -
" Monocytes, birth, median 1.05 × 106 -
" Monocytes, pediatric 0.4 × 106 -
" Monocytes, adult, range 0.21-1.05 × 106 -
" Monocytes, adult, median 0.43 × 106 -
" Phagocytes, birth, range 6-26 × 106 -
" Phagocytes, birth, median 11 × 106 -
" Phagocytes, pediatric, range 1.5-8.5 × 106 -
" Phagocytes, pediatric, median 4.1 × 106 -
" Phagocytes, adult, range 3.5-9.2 × 106 -
" Phagocytes, CD4 cell count 0.5-1.5 × 106 -
Lipase P - 1.2-1.4 × 10-4 -
Lipids, total - 4.45-6.1 × 10-3 4-8.5 × 10-3
Lipoprotein (Sr 12-20) - - 1-10 × 10-4
Lithium - 1.5-2.5 × 10-8 -
Lysine - 1.3-3 × 10-5 2-5.8 × 10-5
Lysozyme (muramidase) - - 1-15 × 10-6
alpha 2-macroglobulin - - -
" pediatric - 2-7 × 10-3
" male, adult - 0.9-4.0 × 10-3
" female, adult - 1.2-5.4 × 10-3
Magnesium - 3.2-5.5 × 10-5 1.8-3.6 × 10-5
Malic acid - 4.6 × 10-6 1-9 × 10-6
Manganese - 0-2.5 × 10-7 0-1.9 × 10-7
Melatonin - - -
" Day - 1.35-1.45 × 10-11
" Night - 6.07-7.13 × 10-11
Mercury - - -
" normal <1 × 10-8 -
" chronic >20 × 10-8 -
Methemoglobin - 4-6 × 10-4 -
Methionine - 4-6 × 10-6 1-15 × 10-6
Methyl guanidine - 2-3 × 10-6 -
beta-2-microglobulin - - 8-24 × 10-7
MIP-1a - - 2.3 × 10-11
MIP-1b - - 9 × 10-11
Mucopolysaccharides - - 1.75-2.25 × 10-3
Mucoproteins - - 8.65-9.6 × 10-4
Nerve growth factor (NGF) - - 6-10 × 10-9
Niacin - 5-8 × 10-6 2-15 × 10-7
Nitrogen - - -
" respiratory gas 8.2 × 10-6 9.7 × 10-6
" total, nonrespiratory 3-3.7 × 10-2 -
Norepinephrine - - -
" after 15 min rest - 2.15-4.75 × 10-10
" when emitted 8.1 × 10-9 8.5 × 10-9
Nucleotide, total - 3.1-5.2 × 10-4 -
Ornithine - - 4-14 × 10-6
Oxalate - - 1-2.4 × 10-6
Oxygen (respiratory gas) - - -
" arterial 2.4-3.2 × 10-4 3.9 × 10-6
" venous 1.6-2.3 × 10-4 1.6 × 10-6
Oxytocin - - -
" male - 2 × 10-12
" female, nonlactating - 2 × 10-12
" female, pregnant 33-40 wks - 32-48 × 10-12
Pancreatic polypeptide - - 5-20 × 10-11
Pantothenic acid (Vitamin B5) - 1.5-4.5 × 10-7 6-35 × 10-8
Para-aminobenzoic acid - 3-4 × 10-8 -
Parathyroid hormone (PTH) - - 2-4 × 10-10
Pentose, phosphorated - - 2-2.3 × 10-5
Phenol, free - 7-10 × 10-7 -
Phenylalanine - 8-12 × 10-6 1.1-4 × 10-5
Phospholipid - 2.25-2.85 × 10-3 5-12 × 10-5
Phosphatase, acid, prostatic - - <3 × 10-9
Phosphorus - - -
" inorganic, adult 2-3.9 × 10-5 2.3-4.5 × 10-5
" inorganic, children - 4.0-7.0 × 10-5
" total 3.5-4.3 × 10-4 1-1.5 × 10-4
Phytanic acid - - <3 × 10-6
Platelets (#/cm³): - - -
" range 1.4-4.4 × 108 -
" median 2.5 × 108 -
Platelet Derived Growth Factor - - 5.0 × 10-8
Polysaccharides, total - - 7.3-13.1 × 10-4
Potassium - 1.6-2.4 × 10-3 1.4-2.2 × 10-4
Pregnenolone - - 3-20 × 10-10
Progesterone (male) - - 12-20 × 10-11
Progesterone (female) - - -
" follicular - 0.4-0.9 × 10-9
" midluteal - 7.7-12.1 × 10-9
" pregnancy, weeks 16-18 - 30-66 × 10-9
" pregnancy, weeks 28-30 - 70-126 × 10-9
" pregnancy, weeks 38-40 - 131-227 × 10-9
Proinsulin - - -
" fasting - 0.5-5 × 10-10
" mean - 1.42-1.70 × 10-10
Prolactin (male) <20 × 10-9 - - -
" while awake - 1-7 × 10-9
" during sleep - 9-20 × 10-9
Prolactin (female) - - -
" follicular - <23 × 10-9
" luteal - 5-40 × 10-9
Proline - - 1.2-5.7 × 10-5
Prostaglandins - - -
" PGE - 3.55-4.15 × 10-10
" PGF - 1.26-1.56 × 10-10
" 15-keto-PGF2a - 5 × 10-10
" 15-keto-PGE2 - <5 × 10-11
Protein, total - 1.9-2.1 × 10-1 6.0-8.3 × 10-2
Protoporphyrin - 2.7-6.1 × 10-7 -
Prostate specific antigen - 0-5 × 10-9 -
Pseudoglobulin I - - 8-19 × 10-3
Pseudoglobulin II - - 2-8 × 10-3
Purine, total - 9.5-11.5 × 10-5 -
Pyrimidine nucleotide - 2.6-4.6 × 10-5 2-12 × 10-7
Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6) - - 3.6-90 × 10-9
Pyruvic acid - 3-10 × 10-6 3-12 × 10-6
RANTES - - 7 × 10-11
Relaxin - - -
" day <100 preparturition - <2 × 10-9
" day 100 to 2 days preceding - 5-40 × 10-9
" day preceding parturition - 100-200 × 10-9
" day following parturition - <2 × 10-9
Retinol (Vitamin A) - - 1-8 × 10-7
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) - 1.5-6 × 10-7 2.6-3.7 × 10-8
RNA - 5-8 × 10-4 4-6 × 10-5
Secretin - - 2.9-4.5 × 10-11
Serine - - 3-20 × 10-6
Serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine) - 1.55-1.81 × 10-77 0.8-2.1 × 10-7
Silicon - 1.4-2.95 × 10-6 2.2-5.7 × 10-6
Sodium - - 3.1-3.4 × 10-3
Solids, total - 2-2.5 × 10-1 8-9 × 10-2
Somatotropin (growth hormone) - - 4-140 × 10-10
Sphingomyelin - 1.5-1.85 × 10-3 1-4 × 10-4
Succinic acid - - 5 × 10-6
Sugar, total - 7-11 × 10-4 -
Sulfates, inorganic - - 8-12 × 10-6
Sulfur, total - 3.8-5 × 10-2 3.1-3.8 × 10-2
Taurine - - 3-21 × 10-6
Testosterone (male) - - -
" free - 5.6-10.2 × 10-11
" total - 275-875 × 10-11
Testosterone (female) - - -
" free - 0.24-0.38 × 10-11
" total - 23-75 × 10-11
" pregnant - 38-190 × 10-11
Thiamine (Vitamin B1) - 3-10 × 10-8 1-9 × 10-8
Thiocyanate - 5-14 × 10-6 -
" nonsmoker - 1-4 × 10-6
" smoker - 3-12 × 10-6
Threonine - 1.3-2 × 10-5 0.9-3.2 × 10-5
Thyroglobulin (Tg) - - <5 × 10-8
Thyroid hormones - - 4-8 × 10-8
Thyrotropin-releasing hormone - - 5-60 × 10-12
Thyroxine (FT4) - - -
" free - 8-24 × 10-12
" total - 4-12 × 10-8
Thyroxine-binding prealbumin - - 2.8-3.5 × 10-4
Thyroxine-binding globulin - - 1.0-3.4 × 10-7
Tin - 0-4 × 10-7 0-1 × 10-7
alpha-Tocopherol (Vitamin E) - - 5-20 × 10-6
Transcortin - - -
" male - 1.5-2 × 10-5
" female - 1.6-2.5 × 10-5
Transferrin - - -
" newborn - 1.3-2.75 × 10-3
" adult - 2.2-4 × 10-3
" age >60 yrs - 1.8-3.8 × 10-3
Triglycerides - 8.5-23.5 × 10-4 2.5-30 × 10-4
Triiodothyronine - - -
" free - 2.3-6.6 × 10-12
" total (T3) - 0.75-2.50 × 10-9
Tryptophan - 5-10 × 10-6 9-30 × 10-6
Tyrosine - 8-14 × 10-6 4-25 × 10-6
Urea - 2-4 × 10-4 2.8-4 × 10-4
Uric acid - 6-49 × 10-6 2-7 × 10-5
" child - 3.5-7.2 × 10-5
" adult, male - 2.6-6.0 × 10-5
" adult, female 2.0-5.5 × 10-5
Valine - 2-2.9 × 10-5 1.7-4.2 × 10-5
Vasointestinal peptide (VIP) - - 6-16 × 10-12
Vasopressin - - -
" hydrated - 4.5 × 10-13
" dehydrated - 3.7 × 10-12
Zinc - 5-13 × 10-6 7-15 × 10-7

So who gets to decide what parts are 'banned' and what parts are ok to accept? All of those components make up blood, so which scriptures tell us which of the parts above are acceptable? VoR, please enlighten us! How does God view the vasointestinal peptide component of blood? Is it 'blood' blood or does God think it's OK? I looked for hexosephosphate P in the Greek scriptures, but I just couldn't find any mention of it. If the ban on blood is really about medical treatment and not about the ritualistic drinking of blood then surely the apostles considered the godly view of Adrenocorticotrophic hormone.

No? The apostles didn't mention this? Then maybe they were concerned with pagan rituals and not medicine.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"14- What criteria is used to determine what fractions get to make the major list (and are not allowed), and which fractions make the minor list (and are allowed)? Why no to platelets, white blood cells, red blood cells and plasma, but yes to interferons, interleukens, globulins, clotting factors, hemoglobin etc. This list has no rhyme or reason?"

Because that which is broken from the components are not blood.

==================================

Great, give us the scripture that supports your claim.

Anonymous said...

And here's the point that I think most of us see clearly.

JW apologists such as Voice of Reason (aka Ronde) respond to excellent/reseached points with silly nonsense such as, "What does the WTS have to do with JWs?"

Conversely, critical responses to JW posts come with well-researched explanations, quotes from sources and intelligent reasonings.

If JW's REALLY possess the truth, wouldn't they be able to present the clearer and convincing evidence to prove it? (In my opinion, they haven't done so on the web-blog.)

It's also interesting how JW's pride themselves on Biblical context, pointing a finger at other religions for quoting scripture out of context. Well, it appears (as Shawn has shown) that JW's teachers have done the same thing - take scriptures out of context.

JW's are able to do this in the beginning with new converts, because most don't have a clue about the Bible. Once they have won their confidence, this goes un-noticed by most. However, with the Internet, it's interesting to see other explanations that open the JW mind. And, as mentioned, it doesn't appear that JW's can present reasonings that hold up to the intelligent posts that are critical of JW teachings.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"15- What does the Watchtower's long list of mistakes on other medical issues does for its credibility with regard to the blood issue?"

The Watchtower is irrelevant to this issue. This is a choice that Jehovah's Witnesses make.
====================================

Since Jehovah's Witnesses are disfellowshipped if they accept a blood transfusion, this is not a 'choice' that Jehovah's Witnesses make. Anyone who wants to remain one of Jehovah's Witnesses must refuse a blood transfusion.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"18- Does having the very same religious organization making end of the world predictions a dozen times, in writing, all of which proved false, give even greater reason for concern with such an organization today? The reputation and trustworthiness of the Watchtower itself is relevant in regards to these other issues."

There were not dozen of predictions.

Rutherford looked to 1925. Thus only one.

==================================

You're right, there weren't dozens of false predictions there were hundreds.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

JWs look to the Watchtower.

=====================================
That's the problem, they should be looking to the Bible as Christians.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

"20- If fractions are not blood as Watchtower likes to try telling us, then why not allow all fractions? Why not make all blood fractions a conscience matter."

They are.
==================================

Wrong again.



*** hb p. 27 Jehovah’s Witnesses—The Surgical/Ethical Challenge ***

Physicians face a special challenge in treating Jehovah’s Witnesses. Members of this faith have deep religious convictions against accepting homologous or autologous whole blood, packed RBCs [red blood cells], WBCs [white blood cells], or platelets.
***

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

Question for Theocratic Joker:

Why is it that over 4000 people have died in Iraq, because if bad intel and bad decisions from the president, but yet people say they sacrificed, and died in honor and serving their country?

Why is that honored but yet if people die for serving their God, it is not?
==================================

It's because refusing medical treatment has nothing to do with service to God in Christianity.

Voice of Reason said...

shawn, quoting from publications of the Watchtower Society does not apply to Jehovah's Witnesses.

Anonymous said...

Ronde wrote: "shawn, quoting from publications of the Watchtower Society does not apply to Jehovah's Witnesses"

I guess we need to start quoting from Mormon publications or something.

Cognitive Dissonance

Shawn, Ronde can't be bothered with the facts. They interrupt his cultic worldview. How dare you quote Jehovah's Witness publications.

Anonymous said...

Ronde, have you sought out any help yet? Really, get help... please.

Anonymous said...

VOR/Ronde replied: "shawn, quoting from publications of the Watchtower Society does not apply to Jehovah's Witnesses."

Have JW stopped studying the Watchtower at their weekly meetings? Did I miss something.

J said...

"I'm thinking I should offer VoR a free home Watchtower Society Bible-based publication study so that he will actually know what he's talking about before he tries to stick up for his cult."

Shawn Writes the above. You are right on target Shawn. I find this is true of most Watchtower apologists. They are often lacking in knowledge.

I can't tell you how many times I have heard a JW say "we never predicted a date for the end of the world" after which they assure you they will never grow old or die in "this system".

Fascinating.

Anonymous said...

VOR/Ronde, shockingly replied with this, "shawn, quoting from publications of the Watchtower Society does not apply to Jehovah's Witnesses."

I hate to tell you this Ronde, but the publications have EVERYTHING to do with JW's intrepretation of the Bible - EVERYTHING.

Do you understand this Ronde? If not, you are more disturbed than I gave you credit for.

The only good thing that can come from your ignorance (which in many cases is staged) is that JWs and non-JW's alike will see the excellent research by Shawn (which quotes often from your religion) and it will educate them about how wrong the interpretations are in the JW's literature.

So, thanks Ronde for doing your part in helping others to see the real truth in your religion. Education is the best tool to battle ignorance and religions that try to control people's minds.

Sheeplike said...

Why is having a blood transfusion always assumed to save a life?

If blood were a man -made drug, it would never be allowed on the market. I worked at a leading bloodless hospital- Engelwood Hospital in New Jersey.
All types of surgery were done without blood- in fact, over 90% of all operations!

Sheeplike said...

Not taking whole blood is not a 'Witness' rule- it is God's law!

Thats is why history tells us that Romans would test christians with food containing blood. They would rather die than eat it.

Anonymous said...

sheeplike,

What the **** are you talking about?

My concern is the situations in which doctors decide a transfusion is the best option.

What part of this are you not clear on?

We have no problem with bloodless surgery! We have a problem with people DYING because they listen to a cult that tells them to sacrifice themselves.

The Bible is silent on blood fractions. Yet, your cult writes article after article on the use of certain fractions, condemning others.

JWs & Blood - Crazy Stuff

Shawn said...

Sheeplike has left a new comment on the post "Points For Jehovah's Witnesses To Ponder Regarding...":

Not taking whole blood is not a 'Witness' rule- it is God's law!

Thats is why history tells us that Romans would test christians with food containing blood. They would rather die than eat it.
====================================

That's fine, but we're not talking about eating blood here, we're talking about a tissue transplant.

Shawn said...

Sheeplike has left a new comment on the post "Points For Jehovah's Witnesses To Ponder Regarding...":

Why is having a blood transfusion always assumed to save a life?

If blood were a man -made drug, it would never be allowed on the market. I worked at a leading bloodless hospital- Engelwood Hospital in New Jersey.
All types of surgery were done without blood- in fact, over 90% of all operations!
==================================

If kidneys were a man-made drug, they would never be allowed on the market either, so what's your point?

This is a straw-man argument. No one is saying bloodless surgery is bad. No doctor wants to give someone any kind of transplant unless it's absolutely necessary.

Even if bloodless surgery is the norm, there will still be those who need blood transfusions, like leukemia victims. Does God hate leukemia victims?

Voice of Reason said...

"I hate to tell you this Ronde, but the publications have EVERYTHING to do with JW's intrepretation of the Bible - EVERYTHING."

First, I am not Ronde.

Second, quoting from publications does not apply to JWs.

That is because you are apostates and nothing apostates say applies to JWs.

You do not understand the material to even to attempt to make application of it.

It is like Satan quoting scripture to Jesus. Satan does not know how to do it and is not qualified to do so.

Voice of Reason said...

Sheeplike said:
"Why is having a blood transfusion always assumed to save a life?"

Because to say otherwise would require the apostates to start to think independently. Apostates do not know the meaning of independent thinking as they only follow their father the devil.

provilo said...

Thanks VoR for once again proving how much under the control of a group of men JWs are.
A prime example of cognitive dissonance. You KNOW the you are wrong, but years of programming makes reject the truth.
You do not believe what the Bible says, you believe what the Watchtower TELLS you the Bible says. Its those like you that show that I was right to leave the JWs after 30 years.

J said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
J said...

Sheeplike says:
Why is having a blood transfusion always assumed to save a life?

Sheeplike this is an excellent question. You see if blood saves lives or not is not the issue. There are many common medical practices that can be debated, from how to treat asthma, the effectiveness of immunizations, and the risk involved in blood transfusions.

The issue here is freedom for one to exercise his God given conscience in accord with God’s Word the Bible when it comes to medical care.

I say according to God’s Word the Bible since JW’s as self-proclaimed Christians are supposed to use it as a guide. Granted someone is free to also follow other holy books or no books at all if they so choose.

So the issue here is the Society mandate not to have transfusions instead of allowing people to see if this is really a Scriptural or manmade mandate.

JW’s need to grow up and mature as Christians but they are not allowed to do so.

Evidence of this rests in that many JW’s actually think the Bible forbids blood transfusions. Granted many know that it doesn’t, they are just afraid to embrace the Scriptures over the Society.

Voice of Reason said...

"The issue here is freedom for one to exercise his God given conscience in accord with God’s Word the Bible when it comes to medical care."

We do have that freedom but since God's word says to abstain from blood, there is that constraint.

"So the issue here is the Society mandate not to have transfusions instead of allowing people to see if this is really a Scriptural or manmade mandate."

No, it is not a manmade mandate and it is not the Society's mandate.

You convince yourself that they Society is wrong as an excuse to disobey God. That does not work.

Anonymous said...

Ronde wrote: "an excuse to disobey God"

Another Epic Failure.

You define disobedience to God, as whatever your religious leaders define it as. Again, nothing but a UNIQUE INTERPRETATION of SCRIPTURE. Same as all other religons.

Facts You Should Know about Jehovah's Witnesses

Anonymous said...

Mr. Voice of Reason, I have a question for you: If you are such a faithful servant of Jehovah God, why do you spend your time with "apostates" (or: at the table with demons? - 1 Cor 10:21)What about your conscience? I don´t understand it. Or, would it be possible, that you think you are serving God by defending the Bible against "apostates"? Do you think Jehovah wants us to defend him using wrong procedures? Why don´t you rather go to your territory and serve those who are not "apostates"? Or is it so, that you are sitting somewhere near to the Brooklyn Bridge monitoring some of the apostate websites as a part of your theocratic assignment? Or, maybe, you are a fanatic elder who is not able to work more in the service and by fighting on the Net you try to please your conscience? Or maybe, you are an "apostate" as well, and by writing such nonsense you are in fact supporting our common thing. Maybe, you are a very smart saboteur who pretends being a JW but in fact you fight against JW´s. Why I think so? If I were a person without any knowledge of JW´s and I had read your comments, I would run away from this organization as soon as possible.

Voice of Reason said...

"Mr. Voice of Reason, I have a question for you: If you are such a faithful servant of Jehovah God, why do you spend your time with "apostates" (or: at the table with demons? - 1 Cor 10:21)What about your conscience? I don´t understand it."

Why do the US and other troops spend time in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc? Not for fun but because it is their duty. Their conscience would not allow them to not be there.

"Do you think Jehovah wants us to defend him using wrong procedures?"

And who are you to say what is a wrong procedure?

"Why don´t you rather go to your territory and serve those who are not "apostates"?

Because it is cold, snowy and 10 degrees out.

"Or is it so, that you are sitting somewhere near to the Brooklyn Bridge monitoring some of the apostate websites as a part of your theocratic assignment?"

So they have wifi under the bridge?

The fact is that none of you know anything about Jehovah's Witnesses as you have stated that you worship the Watchtower.

Anonymous said...

Ronde wrote: "The fact is that none of you know anything about Jehovah's Witnesses as you have stated that you worship the Watchtower."

That is a real hoot.

In fact, I've yet to meet a JW that knows anything about the history of the organization he belongs to.

The average Apostate knows more about Jehovah's Witnesses than most elders.

The irony is rich.

Ronde's Favorite Website

Voice of Reason said...

The history of our religion is this.

God created the heavens and the earth.
Man sinned.
Israel was his people.
Jesus came, lived, died.
Jesus was raised, went to the right hand of Jehovah
and waited until around 1914 then became king in the heavens.

That is the history.


What the humans in the religion have done is irrelevant to that.

Shawn said...

Voice of Reason said...

The history of our religion is this.

God created the heavens and the earth.
Man sinned.
Israel was his people.
Jesus came, lived, died.
Jesus was raised, went to the right hand of Jehovah
and waited until around 1914 then became king in the heavens.

That is the history.


What the humans in the religion have done is irrelevant to that.
=================================

Oh VoR, don't leave out the good parts! Let's fill in some of those 'facts' that the Watchtower Society teaches...

First two people lived in a park where the wife ate some fruit and gave it to her husband. Then lions, tigers, bears and pandas were mean to people. Then God sends His son to earth where does some really cool party tricks, gets on the nerves of the Jews who have the Romans execute Him. But this is all part of the big plan, because once Jesus was resurrected to heaven, he only had to wait almost 2000 years before He found a guy ranting about how God told him through a pyramid that the end of the world was going to happen in 1914. Of course Jesus picked crazy pyramid guy to be his faithful and discreet slave who would be responsible for telling everyone that after 1914 there would be no more human governments on earth and people would once again live in a park with lots of friendly lions, tigers, bears and pandas to pet. Yay!

Don't believe me? Here's a Watchtower article that explains it.

*** w00 4/15 pp. 17-18 par. 18 The New World—Will You Be There? ***

18 While you are thinking about what you may enjoy in the new world, picture the scene that God’s prophetic word sets out: “‘The wolf and the lamb themselves will feed as one, and the lion will eat straw just like the bull; and as for the serpent, his food will be dust. They will do no harm nor cause any ruin in all my holy mountain,’ Jehovah has said.” (Isaiah 65:25) Human artists have tried to paint that scene, but this is no mere word picture produced with artistic license. This will be real. Peace will prevail among humans and will be matched by peace with the animals. Many biologists and animal lovers spend the best years of their life learning about a few types of animals or just one species or breed. In contrast, think what you will be able to learn when animals are not dominated by fear of humans. Then you will be able to approach even birds and tiny creatures whose habitat is the forest or jungle—yes, observe, learn from, and enjoy them. (Job 12:7-9) You will be able to do so safely, free of danger from man or animal. Jehovah says: “They will do no harm nor cause any ruin in all my holy mountain.” What a change that will be from what we see and experience today!

So apparently, God is going to hand out new sets of teeth to all those lions who now have sharp, meat eating teeth along with new stomachs that are designed to digest grass instead.

...And serpents will eat dust! Boy, I'll tell ya' I'm going to have lots of serpents in my house in the New Order, because I hate dusting.

Those black widow spiders are going to have to go to marriage counseling, because their not going to be allowed to rudely kill their mates anymore.

Crocodiles are going to be really messy salad eaters, but they will be able to eat one of those giant cones of cotton candy in one bite... and without getting their hands all sticky!

I'm also guessing that JW's who make it through Armageddon will also have to design a program called "Responsible Sex for Bunnies" and hand out teeny tiny condoms so that there won't be a bunny rabbit explosion since they will no longer have predators to eat them.

So I guess you're right VoR, nothing humans in the religion have done could affect that... because it's a fairy tale.

Anonymous said...

Ronde wrote: "That is the history."

You have gone on record to prove my point. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

I like the part about the Miracle Wheat and the kids getting their arms burned with acid, so it would look like they had received the mandatory smallpox vaccinations. Also, the part where all of the kids die, because they don't get blood. The story about the millions of dollars of donation money to pay off the victims of sexual abuse, with a gag order, that was a classic. The mansion that Rutherford lived in and his bootlegging was juicy, too. I like the part where they changed 606 BCE to 607 BCE when they found out there was no zero year, which means it was really 1915, but, wait, they already said 1914, so they pushed 606 to 607. The story about Armageddon coming, despite the fact that billions of people have never heard of Jehovah, that was a good one.

I'm glad the end is just around the corner. I can hardly keep up!

Anonymous said...

I just can't wait for the next, delightful issue of the Washtowel Magazine.

Watchtower 1990 December 15 p 26

"For over a century, delightful, correct words of truth covering every aspect of life have been presented in the Watch Tower Society's publications..."

Sorry about that ban on Clotting Factor VIII, all of you hemophiliacs that bled to death, before we changed God's mind on the matter and published an article. Oops.

Sheeplike said...

So what if Rutherford 'lost it' as he grew older?
Witnesses don't worship him.

Also, as a lawyer, he donated lots of money to the Watchtower. He was not a parasite.

Anonymous said...

sheeplike wrote: "So what if Rutherford 'lost it' as he grew older?"

Without Rutherford, there would be no Jehovah's Witnesses. He even gave your religion its name.

Anonymous said...

"...Because hospitals are unable to save them is not to save them is not the Witnesses allowing them to die." VOR

OK, let's say you do take your very sick little girl to the best hospital in the country for treatment but once there you [and the Watchtower's appointed Hospital Liaison man] refuse to allow them to treat your little one with the medicine proven to cure her disease. Who's fault is it when she dies?

Shawn said...

Sheeplike has left a new comment on the post "Points For Jehovah's Witnesses To Ponder Regarding...":

So what if Rutherford 'lost it' as he grew older?
Witnesses don't worship him.

Also, as a lawyer, he donated lots of money to the Watchtower. He was not a parasite.
=====================================

If Rutherford had so much money, then why did he have the Watchtower Society buy him the mansion Beth Sarim in San Diego?

I realize that Beth Sarim was deeded to "Abraham, Isaac and other faithful men of old" who were supposed to be resurrected in 1925, but it was Rutherford that waited out the great depression in style in sunny San Diego.

You see, sheeplike, the leaders of an organization bear a heavy responsibility to uphold the standards of that organization. True, JWs don't worship Rutherford, but they did believe what he wrote about the resurrection of the men of old... which was a lie he told in order to set himself up with a sweet winter home in southern California.