Friday, November 14, 2008

How Ironic!

In this week's book study lesson, there is a paragraph on "greed". The following comment is made (chapter 8, paragraph 17):
A Christian who loves kindness will certainly not exploit his fellow worshippers. For example, he realizes that it would be neither proper nor kind to start a business or promote an investment scheme that targets fellow believers as the main customers. It would display greed, which Christians are warned against, to plan on making money hastily by exploiting fellow Christians.
Wait a minute....what exactly is the "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society", if not "a business...that targets fellow believers as the main customers"?
So it looks lile the WTS is "neither proper nor kind", and "displays greed". Oh, wait, we already knew that!
I am quite sure this went whooshing over the heads of all the nitwits in Bethel...not to mention all the brain-dead Jehovah's Witnesses nodding semi-comatose thru the study this week.
You just can't make this stuff up!
Just for the record, I do not believe that Christians should start a business just to exploit their fellow witnesses. But can we honestly say that all who start a business do so only to exploit other witnesses? Sometimes these businesses provide a real service, like the people who sell bags for the ministry and other things. What about the brother who starts a car repair business because he knows that a lot of brothers will use his service. Is he being exploitive? Is this displaying greed? The Watchtower lumped together all businesses started by witnesses who rely on the brothers as its customers and then pronounced it wrong.

32 comments:

spiritualbrother said...

I believe that many consider the Watchtower Society to be a book publishing and real estate business.

Anonymous said...

Fisting and God's Will

The sex act called fisting is a source of confusion and misconceptions for many Christians. This is unfortunate, because it means that many Christian men and women are depriving themselves of what could be the most spiritual sexual experience of their lives. Like anal sex and BDSM, fisting is often mistakenly associated with the gay community or is considered a sex act too extreme to be appropriate for Christian couples. Not only are these views incorrect, but fisting actually has a scriptural precedent, as we will show.

The Fist of Might

Over and over in the scriptures, the hand and fist of God are described as a symbol of His awesome power and the means through which this power manifests: "O God, God of our ancestors, are you not God in heaven above and ruler of all kingdoms below? You hold all power and might in your fist.” (2 Chronicles 20:6) Of course, the Old Testament often makes reference to God smiting his enemies with his fist or striking down the wicked with his hand, but it is also the means through which he administers his blessings and benevolence to the righteous: ”You open Your hand and satisfy the desire of every living thing.” (Psalms 145:16) Through the hand of the Lord, he guides us to do his will, touches our lives, expresses His love, and provides for our needs with His abundance.

The biblical significance of the hand is important, because in the act of fisting, one partner (usually male) inserts his entire hand and fist into the vagina or rectum of his partner. Rather than copulating with his penis, he penetrates her with his fist. Given the powerful symbolism of the fist, it is no surprise that couples who have partaken in the practice of fisting have described it as being a profoundly spiritual experience. On a symbolic and sexual level, a wife who is fisted by her husband has the experience of surrendering completely to the divine love and power of the Lord, as embodied by her partner’s hand. The husband in turn has the experience of touching and caressing her inwardly, in such a deep and intimate manner as God touches our own souls with His grace.

Powerful Yet Gentle

In the Song of Solomon, the Bible describes the act of fisting and the profound erotic bliss it induces: It is the voice of my beloved! He knocks, saying, "Open for me, my sister, my love, My dove, my perfect one”…My love thrust his hand through the opening, and my feelings were stirred for him. (Song of Solomon 5:2-4) Here we see the lover gently coaxing his companion to open up to him, metaphorically “knocking at her door,” preparing her sexually and emotionally to receive his hand inside her. Gradually he works more and more fingers into her, until the moment when her vagina yields and his hand slips fully inside her, thrusting “through the opening.” She then describes the powerful passion that this arouses in her as she envelopes his entire hand inside her body. Many couples describe this moment, as the fist makes full penetration into the vaginal opening, as transcendent and a sexual revelation. As the woman’s body accommodates her husband’s hand, both may experience a sense of physical, sexual, emotional, and spiritual oneness.

Some common misconceptions about fisting are that it is very painful or that it is somehow violent or abusive. This is far from the truth, and as we can see from the above description, it can be a gentle, loving, and highly erotic act. Fisting does not have to be painful if it is performed correctly, using enough lubrication and patience. The hand is inserted in a slow and controlled manner, and is preceded and followed by other sexual stimulation which may lead to orgasm. Both the vagina and the rectum are extremely elastic – a vagina, after all, can stretch to accommodate a full-term baby. And in fact, a woman who has been blessed with motherhood can more easily enjoy fisting because her vaginal opening is more flexible.

The act of fisting is physically challenging to perform, requiring patience on the part of the active partner, and relaxation on the part of the receiving partner. It cannot be rushed, and the two participants must communicate closely, with the fister carefully observing and attending to his partner’s comfort and limits, and the fistee directing her partner as to when to push forward and hold back as he works his hand into her. A Christian couple can use fisting to build trust and intimacy between them, as well as strengthening their relationship with the Lord.

Fisting as an Act of Faith

Before attempting fisting, a Christian husband and wife should pray together and ask for divine guidance. The husband should ask that God guide his hand and work through him, and for the skill and patience to fist his wife correctly and maximize her pleasure. The wife should pray for openness and readiness to receive God’s love and grace in the form of her husband’s hand.

Both should treat the act of fisting as a divine spiritual mystery to be entered into with reverence and awe, especially the husband. In another spiritual interpretation of fisting, as he inserts his hand into his wife’s vagina, a man is symbolically re-enacting the moment of truth following Christ’s resurrection from the tomb, when Doubting Thomas touches the wounds in the Savior’s flesh: Then He said to Thomas, "Put your finger here and observe My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Don't be an unbeliever, but a believer.” (John 20:27) Thomas’ doubt would not be satisfied until he physically felt the wounds in Christ’s body and penetrated His flesh with his hand. Likewise, the spiritual and sexual power of fisting cannot be known unless experienced physically.

Role Reversal

So far we have only discussed a husband fisting his wife, but some couples may wonder if it is appropriate for a wife to fist her husband if he enjoys anal stimulation. In most cases, a wife indulging her husband’s desire to receive light anal play is not problematic in the context of a healthy sexual relationship. A wife may even anally penetrate her partner with a strap-on dildo if he enjoys this, and if their respective roles as husband and wife are secure outside of the bedroom.

greg said...

Anon, you are an idiot. It's not big and it's not clever. You are like a child in the playground who has just learnt a new rude word. Grow up.

Anonymous said...

Reminds me of when Watchtower (or whatever Ronde is calling the Apocalyptic Millnenarian Destructive Sect, today) sold Miracle Wheat.

Anonymous said...

Ronde is getting worse by the minute...

He needs professional help - does anyone know how to get him help when he refuses to seek it?

Anonymous said...

November 15, 2008 4:43 AM Anon. (Notice the time?)

I don't see how your opinions on manual penetration of the rectum have anything to do with this topic or for that matter, this blog. If you're trying to start a discussion on this practice (which BTW, is acknowledged by medical professionals as a particularly high-risk practice for the transmission of HIV/AIDS) why not go some place where those who consider this of interest might be hanging out.

Now back to the subject...

Voice of Reason said...

You are an idiot.

It is not for profit and is not a business.

Anonymous said...

They make huge profits on the sale of literature. Wake up and use your brain. Quit parroting what a man told you.

Voice of Reason said...

There is no sale of literature.

Anonymous said...

Ronde wrote: "There is no sale of literature."

Watchtower sends literature, and then the congregation sends them money.

Unless your mind is being controlled by a destructive Fundamentalist Bible Cult, that is what is known as a "sale".

trebor said...

Voice of Reason said...
There is no sale of literature.


The reason they no longer sell literature is because they don't want to pay the taxes. This does not mean they are not a business.

Pam Tolliver said...

We don't sell literature because that is not why we're involved in preaching the Good News of God's Kingdom. We give the literature away to anyone who says they'll read it, and most of us always have. Money is not garnered from the public. The money that goes to the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses (the WT Society) is freely donated by members of the congregations, and it's not a large sum! Most JWs don't donate even $25 a month to maintain the Kingdom Hall and to support the world-wide work. Yet the work goes on & the light bills get paid.

How ridiculous to say that JWs are a business! LOL!!! Go look at other religions that insist their members pay a tenth of their incomes! And they're always asking for money! The basket or plate gets passed in church. JWs don't ask for anything and don't pass a plate. People give what they want, and nobody knows how much.

Get real.

trebor said...

How ridiculous to say that JWs are a business!

For years, the Watchtower Society, owns a large percentage of (at least) three "Sister Companies": Rand Cam Engine Corp., Rand Energy Group Inc., and Regi U.S. Inc. These companies are dedicated to research, development and marketing of Rand Cam™ engine technology of which they own the rights and several patents.

Rand Energy Group is owned 51% by Reg Technologies Inc. and 49% by Rand Cam Engine Corp.

Rand Cam Engine Corp. is a privately held company whose stock is owned 50% by The Watchtower Society.

Just one of the Watchtower Society's military business involvements include:

In December 6th 2001, Watchtower’s "Sister Companies", publicly announced that a $850,000 U.S. Navy contract, topic# N01-144 (contract # N00014-01-M-0208) had been awarded to Advanced Ceramics Research prime contractor , and REGI to build and test a Naval 0.5 horsepower ceramic engine which would allow for low radar signature and high temperature operation. The motor was developed for powering the U.S. Navy's new Smart War-fighter Array of Re-configurable Modules "SWARM", since renamed Silver Fox , a low cost unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV).

They sure operate a lot like a business - even involved in making money from the military, owning stocks by companies who build weapons for the military!

Anonymous said...

Grab any person walking down the street and ask them this question: Do Jehovah's Witnesses knock on doors and sell books?

99 out of 100 will answer, "Yes."

If it walks like a duck...

Voice of Reason said...

Trebor said"The reason they no longer sell literature is because they don't want to pay the taxes. This does not mean they are not a business. "

Trebor, you are ignorant.

The WTS would not have to pay sales taxes on literature, other than what was sold locally at their plant.

They are manufactures so they are not subject to sales tax.

It would be the publishers that would collect it from the people or the congregations would collect it from the people and publishers.
Many cities and counties have their own separate tax rates. The congregations would have to file returns or the Society would file for the congregations.

That would be a great pain. Thus going to the donation basis is a great simplification if the sales tax ever came about.

Voice of Reason said...

"How ridiculous to say that JWs are a business! LOL!!! Go look at other religions that insist their members pay a tenth of their incomes! And they're always asking for money! The basket or plate gets passed in church. JWs don't ask for anything and don't pass a plate. People give what they want, and nobody knows how much."

Yes, Pam, other religions are businesses.

They go to seminary and get their masters of theology or doctor of divinity, then serve as associate pastor. Then like doctors or lawyers, they go into private practice and hang their shingle and become pastors of churches.

They are no different than doctors or lawyers in that they sell their services.

trebor said...

Voice of Reason...That would be a great pain. Thus going to the donation basis is a great simplification if the sales tax ever came about.

Justify and convince yourself what the reasons were but as the facts show they changed their stance to "donation arrangement" right after the court case they were involved with Jimmy Swaggart was lost.

According to the standards the Watchtower Society sets for Jehovah's Witnesses they should not have even had such alliances with False Religion.

Thanks for allowing that to be emphasized.

Shawn said...

Pam Tolliver said...

We don't sell literature because that is not why we're involved in preaching the Good News of God's Kingdom. We give the literature away to anyone who says they'll read it, and most of us always have. Money is not garnered from the public.

If no donations are asked of the public, then why does the Watchtower Society print suggestions for asking the public for money?

*** km 5/90 pp. 7-8 pars. 4-7 Use Our Literature Wisely ***

4 The following are some remarks you might make after showing the literature: “If you would enjoy reading this publication, I would be happy to leave it with you.” Likely the householder will ask: “How much does it cost?” You could reply: “We are not engaged in a commercial work. We are not selling this literature. The work we are doing in your neighborhood today is being done voluntarily in 212 lands around the world to help people learn the way to everlasting life. If you would care to make a donation toward this work, I would be glad to accept it.”

5 When offering the magazines, you could raise questions about a specific article and then say: “I would like you to note the details in this article. If you would like to read these two magazines, I would be happy to leave them with you.” If they are accepted, you could add: “I am glad to be able to make this information available to you. I think you will find the subject truly informative. In fact, I would like to come back next week to get your viewpoint. You will note that The Watchtower is published in 107 languages and distributed in nearly 14,000,000 copies around the world. This work is all supported by voluntary donations. If you also care to make a small donation toward this educational work, we will be happy to accept it.”

6 In some cases, the subject of donations for our worldwide work may be awkward to discuss. For example, an interested householder may ask: “Are you giving it away?” We might reply: “If you want to read the publication and would like to have it, yes, it’s yours. I would like to stop by next week to discuss what we have talked about and to tell you more about our worldwide work.” On subsequent visits the householder may be informed as to how our work is financed.

7 Or the householder may immediately accept the literature and reply, “Thank you.” You could respond by saying: “You are welcome. I know you will enjoy it. Many wonder how this work is financed, since we do it worldwide. Many who accept our publications have expressed appreciation for what they will learn and have volunteered a small donation to make further distribution possible. If people do that, we are pleased to accept it.”
***


The money that goes to the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses (the WT Society) is freely donated by members of the congregations, and it's not a large sum! Most JWs don't donate even $25 a month to maintain the Kingdom Hall and to support the world-wide work. Yet the work goes on & the light bills get paid.

How ridiculous to say that JWs are a business! LOL!!! Go look at other religions that insist their members pay a tenth of their incomes! And they're always asking for money! The basket or plate gets passed in church. JWs don't ask for anything and don't pass a plate. People give what they want, and nobody knows how much.

Just because there aren't plates passed around at the meetings doesn't mean there isn't pressure from the Watchtower Society to give them money. At a minimum, every year on November first, the Watchtower Society reminds its members to give.

*** w03 12/1 p. 19 par. 17 “Show Yourselves Thankful” ***

Making voluntary contributions to support the worldwide Kingdom-preaching work also demonstrates our thankfulness. Heartfelt appreciation motivates us to do this regularly, possibly setting aside something on a weekly basis
***

*** w02 5/15 p. 26 Integrity Leads the Upright Ones ***

Meanwhile, let us make it our aim to ‘honor Jehovah with our valuable things.
***

*** w01 5/15 p. 13 par. 19 Praise Jehovah for His Great Deeds! ***

A progressive theocratic organization with loving oversight is administering Kingdom activity through 110 branch offices of Jehovah’s Witnesses. We are thankful that Jehovah has moved the hearts of his people to ‘honor him with their valuable things.’
***

*** w00 1/15 p. 24 Cultivate Intimacy With Jehovah ***

The valuable things with which we honor Jehovah are our time, our talents, our strength, and our material possessions. These must be the firstfruits—our very best.
***

*** w00 11/1 p. 30 Riches of Generosity Bring Joy ***

The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses would like to take this opportunity to express deep gratitude to everyone whose heart has impelled him to share in this voluntary giving. And we can be confident that Jehovah’s spirit will continue to stir the hearts of his people to support the needs of the ever-expanding Kingdom work.
***

*** w97 11/1 pp. 28-29 “Honor Jehovah With Your Valuable Things”—How? ***

While material prosperity in itself does not lead to spiritual prosperity, generously using our valuable things—our time, our strength, and our material resources—to honor Jehovah brings rich blessings. This is so because God, to whom everything belongs, assures us: “The generous soul will itself be made fat, and the one freely watering others will himself also be freely watered.”
***

*** w96 12/1 pp. 19-20 par. 18 Youths Who Remember Their Creator ***

18 Heeding the exhortation, “Remember, now, your Grand Creator,” is a key to the wise management of your finances. This is because when you obey that command, your priority is to please Jehovah, and your affection for him influences how you spend your money. Accordingly, you will try not to allow personal wants to interfere with giving God whole-souled devotion. (Matthew 16:24-26) You will strive to keep your eye “simple,” that is, clearly focused on God’s Kingdom and the doing of his will. (Matthew 6:22-24) You will thus come to view the divine admonition to “honor Jehovah with your valuable things” as a joyful privilege.—Proverbs 3:9.
***

That's right, 'keep your eye simple'... and give the Watchtower Society your money.

*** w91 2/1 p. 14 par. 19 Honor Jehovah—Why and How? ***

19 Another way we can honor Jehovah God is by making monetary contributions to the worldwide preaching work that he has authorized. “Honor Jehovah with your valuable things and with the firstfruits of all your produce,” we are urged. (Proverbs 3:9) The privilege of making such contributions is an opportunity to honor Jehovah God that no one should overlook.
***

*** w90 12/1 pp. 12-13 par. 9 They Responded Unselfishly to God’s Love ***

And was not David’s desire to build Jehovah a temple another expression of his zeal and appreciation for God’s love and goodness? Of course it was. Being denied that privilege did not deter David from preparing for the project and honoring Jehovah by personally contributing gold, silver, and precious stones of very great value. (2 Samuel 7:1-13; 1 Chronicles 29:2-5) Similar unselfish response to God’s love should motivate us to ‘honor Jehovah with our valuable things’ by using our material resources to further Kingdom interests
***

*** w87 12/1 p. 31 Is Your Giving a Sacrifice? ***

How do you view these many and varied ways contributions are made? Do you, like some in Malachi’s day, view them as a tiresome burden, perhaps saying in your heart: “Look! What a weariness!”? Or do you, like the “poor widow,” view them as opportunities to demonstrate your zeal and concern for true worship and your desire to honor Jehovah with your valuable things? Do not forget the pertinent question: Is your giving a sacrifice?
***

That's right, give 'till it hurts!

*** w87 12/15 p. 19 par. 19 Honoring the God of Hope ***

Here, then, is one way to “glorify Jehovah with thy wealth.” Young and old have shared in doing this, such as by personally resolving to contribute toward the building funds. To hold to such secret resolves may take personal discipline or even some sacrifice
***


*** w07 11/1 p. 21 “The Silver Is Mine, and the Gold Is Mine” ***

Are you not moved to do all you can to support this never-to-be-repeated work?
***

*** w07 11/1 pp. 20-21 “The Silver Is Mine, and the Gold Is Mine” ***

WAYS IN WHICH SOME CHOOSE TO GIVE

CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE WORLDWIDE WORK

Many set aside, or budget, an amount that they place in the contribution boxes labeled “Contributions for the Worldwide Work—Matthew 24:14.”

Each month, congregations forward these amounts to the office of Jehovah’s Witnesses that serves their respective countries. Voluntary donations of money may also be sent directly to Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Attention Treasurer’s Office, 25 Columbia Heights, Brooklyn, New York 11201-2483, or to the branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses that serves your country. Checks sent to the above address should be made payable to “Watch Tower.” Jewelry or other valuables may be donated as well. A brief letter stating that such items are an outright gift should accompany these contributions.

CONDITIONAL-DONATION TRUST ARRANGEMENT

Money may be placed in trust with Watch Tower for use worldwide. However, upon request the funds will be returned. For more information, please contact the Treasurer’s Office at the address noted above.

CHARITABLE PLANNING

In addition to outright gifts of money, there are other methods of giving to benefit Kingdom service worldwide. These include:

Insurance: Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania may be named as the beneficiary of a life insurance policy or a retirement/pension plan.

Bank Accounts: Bank accounts, certificates of deposit, or individual retirement accounts may be placed in trust for or made payable on death to Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, in accord with local bank requirements.

Stocks and Bonds: Stocks and bonds may be donated to Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania as an outright gift.

Real Estate: Salable real estate may be donated either by making an outright gift or, in the case of residential property, by reserving a life estate to the donor, who can continue to live therein during his or her lifetime. Contact the branch office in your country before deeding any real estate.

Gift Annuity: A gift annuity is an arrangement whereby one transfers money or securities to a designated corporation that is used by Jehovah’s Witnesses. In exchange, the donor, or someone designated by the donor, receives a specified annuity payment every year for life. The donor receives an income-tax deduction for the year in which the gift annuity is established.

Wills and Trusts: Property or money may be bequeathed to Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania by means of a legally executed will, or Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania may be named as beneficiary of a trust agreement. A trust benefiting a religious organization may provide certain tax advantages.

As the term “charitable planning” implies, these types of donations typically require some planning on the part of the donor. To assist individuals desiring to benefit the worldwide work of Jehovah’s Witnesses through some form of charitable planning, a brochure has been prepared in English and Spanish entitled Charitable Planning to Benefit Kingdom Service Worldwide. The brochure was written to provide information on a variety of ways that gifts may be made either now or through a bequest at death. After reading the brochure and conferring with their own legal or tax advisers, many have been able to help support the religious and humanitarian activities of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide and maximize their tax benefits while doing so. This brochure may be obtained by requesting a copy directly from the Charitable Planning Office.

For more information, you may contact the Charitable Planning Office, either in writing or by telephone, at the address listed below, or you may contact the branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses that serves your country.
***

It's not even a challenge to find all of these quotes from the Watchtower. They may not pass a plate, but they sure do spend a lot of print space 'reminding' JWs to give and give.


Get real.

Get real indeed

Voice of Reason said...

trebor,

nobody cares about your opinion on the matter.

trebor said...

Voice of Reason said...
trebor,
nobody cares about your opinion on the matter.


If that's the best rebuttal you have for all the facts posted, it makes for a pathetic argument. Whether anyone cares about my opinion does not dismiss the facts posted respecting the problems with the Watchtower Society.

Your last post is just another attempt at a smoke screen.

Voice of Reason said...

trebor said
"Whether anyone cares about my opinion does not dismiss the facts posted respecting the problems with the Watchtower Society."

We don't care about your opinion because we are not worshippers of the Watchtower society like you are.

Thus the problems with the Watchtower Society are yours and yours only.

Anonymous said...

Ronde's daily dose of Watchtower has nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses.

It's funny how you keep repeating things that neither Apostates or JWs believe. It's as if you're in your own dimension of cultic half-truths and fairy tales.

Ronde wrote: "We don't care about your opinion"

Your actions belie this claim. You return here, time after time, demonstrating how much you care about us.

We love you too, man.

Pam Tolliver said...

trebor....

How do you know that the Watchtower Society has "owned a large percentage of Rand Cam Engine Corp., Rand Energy Group, Inc., and Regi U.S. Inc."?

Shawn said...

Blogger Pam Tolliver said...

trebor....

How do you know that the Watchtower Society has "owned a large percentage of Rand Cam Engine Corp., Rand Energy Group, Inc., and Regi U.S. Inc."?
==================================

Because its a matter of public record...


http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/922330/000106299302000371/form10k.txt

When you challenge someone like that, you should make sure the answer isn't trivially available first.It makes it look like you're avoiding the issue by disputing the veracity of the claim.

trebor said...

Voice of Reason said...Thus the problems with the Watchtower Society are yours and yours only.

WRONG. All Jehovah's Witnesses are affected as well since the Watchtower Society controls what is printed in the various publications that are studies and distributed by Jehovah's Witnesses, talk outlines, including Sunday public talks and circuit assemblies and district conventions.

Shawn said...

Pam Tolliver has left a new comment on the post "How Ironic!":

trebor....

How do you know that the Watchtower Society has "owned a large percentage of Rand Cam Engine Corp., Rand Energy Group, Inc., and Regi U.S. Inc."?
=====================================

I should also point out that this is a typical response a JW has when confronted with information that puts the Watchtower Society in a bad light. Instead of trying to verify the claim they will automatically assume that the person making the claim is not being honest.

This is exactly what the Watchtower Society trains their members to do.

*** w94 7/1 p. 12 par. 13 At Which Table Are You Feeding? ***

13 Jesus said: “By their fruits you will recognize them.” (Matthew 7:16) What, now, are the fruits of the apostates and their publications? Four things mark their propaganda. (1) Cleverness. Ephesians 4:14 says that they are “cunning in contriving error.” (2) Prideful intelligence. (3) Lack of love. (4) Dishonesty in various forms. These are the very ingredients of the food that is on the table of demons, all of which is designed to undermine the faith of Jehovah’s people.
***

Here's the problem with this paragraph. First, the scripture in Matthew states:

(Matthew 7:15-16) . . .. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they?

Jesus is telling His disciples to recognize for themselves who is producing fruit. He didn't tell His disciples to look to some organization to tell them who was producing fruit.

"What, now, are the fruits of the apostates and their publications? "

Notice the subtle shift here? Instead of focusing on what Jesus told His followers to do, examine the fruits of an individual, the Watchtower Society labels anyone who would disagree with them 'apostate'. This is an ad hominem attack and is designed to close minds. Notice what the Watchtower Society printed about ad hominem attacks...

*** g00 6/22 p. 6 The Manipulation of Information ***

Name-Calling

Some people insult those who disagree with them by questioning character or motives instead of focusing on the facts. Name-calling slaps a negative, easy-to-remember label onto a person, a group, or an idea. The name-caller hopes that the label will stick. If people reject the person or the idea on the basis of the negative label instead of weighing the evidence for themselves, the name-caller’s strategy has worked.

For example, in recent years a powerful antisect sentiment has swept many countries in Europe and elsewhere. This trend has stirred emotions, created the image of an enemy, and reinforced existing prejudices against religious minorities. Often, “sect” becomes a catchword. “‘Sect’ is another word for ‘heretic,’” wrote German Professor Martin Kriele in 1993, “and a heretic today in Germany, as in former times, is [condemned to extermination]—if not by fire . . . , then by character assassination, isolation and economic destruction.”

The Institute for Propaganda Analysis notes that “bad names have played a tremendously powerful role in the history of the world and in our own individual development. They have ruined reputations, . . . sent [people] to prison cells, and made men mad enough to enter battle and slaughter their fellowmen.”
***

Next, let's look at the aspects of 'apostate' fruit.

"Four things mark their propaganda."

So anyone who disagrees with the Watchtower Society has the following four traits according to them. As if there is no possibility for a range of reasons to disagree with the Watchtower Society.

Again, from the Awake! article on propaganda...

*** g00 6/22 p. 6 The Manipulation of Information ***

Making Generalizations

Another very successful tactic of propaganda is generalization. Generalizations tend to obscure important facts about the real issues in question, and they are frequently used to demean entire groups of people. “Gypsies [or immigrants] are thieves” is, for instance, a phrase frequently heard in some European countries. But is that true?

Richardos Someritis, a columnist, says that in one country such perceptions caused a kind of “xenophobic and very often racist frenzy” against foreigners. It has been shown, however, that when it comes to delinquent acts, the culprits in that country are just as likely to be native-born as foreign. For example, Someritis notes that surveys have shown that in Greece, “96 out of 100 crimes are perpetrated by [Greeks].” “The causes of criminal activity are economic and social,” he observes, “not ‘racial.’” He blames the media “for systematically cultivating xenophobia and racism” by a slanted coverage of crime.
***

Let's look at the four aspects.


"(1) Cleverness. Ephesians 4:14 says that they are “cunning in contriving error.”"

How should we handle what might be considered a clever argument? What does the Watchtower Society have to say about this in their article about propaganda?

*** g00 6/22 pp. 10-11 Do Not Be a Victim of Propaganda! ***

Ask questions: As we have seen, there are many today who would like to ‘delude us with persuasive arguments.’ (Colossians 2:4) Therefore, when we are presented with persuasive arguments, we should ask questions.

...ask yourself, ‘When viewed dispassionately, what are the merits of the message?’
***

"(2) Prideful intelligence. "

What exactly is 'prideful intelligence'? This is the only use of this phrase that I could find. They don't bother to define which intelligence they consider prideful. Are we to assume that any intelligent argument is intrinsically prideful?

"(3) Lack of love. "

What does love have to do with disagreeing with Watchtower Society doctrine?

*** g00 6/22 pp. 6-8 The Manipulation of Information ***

Playing on the Emotions

Even though feelings might be irrelevant when it comes to factual claims or the logic of an argument, they play a crucial role in persuasion. Emotional appeals are fabricated by practiced publicists, who play on feelings as skillfully as a virtuoso plays the piano.
***

Here the Awake! article warns readers not to let emotions cloud the issue. A sincere JW may not have a warm, fuzzy feeling when presented with evidence that the Watchtower Society has been dishonest or manipulative with its members, but that doesn't change the facts. Just because you are not feeling that lovey feeling that you felt when you were first love-bombed at the Kingdom Hall doesn't mean that the person delivering the message isn't deeply concerned about your welfare.

"(4) Dishonesty in various forms."

Again, another vague attribute attached to the ad hominem attack that is the label 'apostate'. This is the one Pam had a knee-jerk reaction to when presented with the claim that the Watchtower Society owns a 50% stake in a company that makes unmanned killing machines for the military. Her response indicated that she didn't actually try to see if the claim was true, but immediately challenged trebor's honesty in making the claim.

Pam, you've been trained to shut your mind off. It's not easy to get rid of this psychological device that the Watchtower Society has installed, but it's not impossible. You have the right and the responsibility to examine the arguments from both sides and check to see which one is in fact accurate.

The evidence that the Watchtower Society is profiting from the sale of killing machines is indeed very disturbing. One could argue that the Watchtower Society's investing money in companies is a prudent thing to do with funds, but investing money in a company stained with blood is surely not acceptable from a Christian standpoint.

It's time to ask questions, Pam. Just be careful who you ask though and remember that we here won't disfellowship you and rip you away from your friends and family for asking edgy questions.

Edward Albright said...

Shawn,

"the Watchtower Society has "owned a large percentage of Rand Cam Engine Corp., Rand Energy Group, Inc., and Regi U.S. Inc."?"

So what of it?
That link says:
"and Cam Engine Corp. is a privately held company whose stock is reportedly
owned 50% by The Watchtower Society, a religious organization, 34% by James
McCann and the balance by several other shareholders."

then it said:
"Mr. McCann has indicated
that he donated the shares held by The Watchtower Society to that organization but has retained a voting proxy for those shares."

So how is the Watchtower at fault for something that someone donated? and McCann retained voting rights.

But then they make turbines, air compressors, and rotary engines.

Bud said...

Shawn, I appreciate your very well thought out response. Completely rational and logical. I look forward to any future comments you have.

Shawn said...

Edward Albright said...

Shawn,

"the Watchtower Society has "owned a large percentage of Rand Cam Engine Corp., Rand Energy Group, Inc., and Regi U.S. Inc."?"

So what of it?
...

So how is the Watchtower at fault for something that someone donated? and McCann retained voting rights.
==================================

An organization or individual does not have to accept a donation... especially if that donation is out of line with that organization's principles. The Watchtower Society didn't have to accept a donation for shares in a company that makes killing machines. Here's a comment from the Watchtower Society on the subject...

*** kn17 p. 2 Has Religion Betrayed God and Man? ***

DO THE WORLD’S RELIGIONS SHARE BLAME FOR BLOODSHED?

The Bible says: “If anyone makes the statement: ‘I love God,’ and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar.—1 John 4:20.

Compare that scripture with this statement by noted Protestant clergyman Harry Emerson Fosdick: “With one corner of our mouth we have praised the Prince of Peace and with the other we have glorified war.”

Typical is what happened in World War I:

Roman Catholic Cardinal Amette of Paris told soldiers fighting in the French army: “The Almighty God is on our side. . . . God will give us the victory.”

On the opposite side, the Roman Catholic archbishop of Cologne told German soldiers: “God is with us in this fight . . . and he will give us the victory.”

(Quoted in the Belgian newspaper “La Dernière Heure.”)

In more recent times we see news headlines like those at the right.

Catholic Poll Finds Clergy Pro-Viet War

NEW YORK, POST, SEPT. 7, 1967

CHURCHES INVEST IN MILITARY FIRMS

DAILY TELEGRAPH (Australia), Jan. 7, 1972


Lutherans Promise Support, Even to War, Of U.S. Steps in Crisis

STAR, 1950

Wednesday, March 2, 1949

Baptist World Leader Warns U.S. to Keep Arms Strength

Rev. Johnson Says ‘Physical Force Is Only Thing Russia Understands’

SAN FRANCISCO NEWS, March 2, 1949

Nazi Army Praised

German Catholic Bishops Loyal

NEW YORK POST Aug. 27, 1940
***

*** g84 1/22 p. 8 Big Business and Warfare ***

During the 1970’s, while war was raging in Southeast Asia, Protestant churches—some of which had protested against the war and against the growing military buildup of the United States—were among those taking advantage of the lucrative arms market. In a booklet on the subject, the National Council of Churches said: “The investments identified here are with the ‘big business’ of military production and procurement. The amount of Church investment is almost $203 million . . . These investments are big business for the churches, representing an important if not the most important portion of their holdings.”
***

For the Watchtower Society to accept and keep this donation is pure hypocrisy!

Unknown said...

You got owned bitch

Ryan Misner said...

You got owned bitch

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