Wednesday, January 14, 2009

"Another prominent mark of the beast .. is the honoring of the special class, the clergy, with special honors and titles. They are known as Revs., Divines, etc., but Jesus, the divine, said: 'Ye call me Lord and Master, and ye say well, for so I am.' 'Be not ye called Rabbi, neither be ye called Masters, for one is your Master, even Christ, and all ye are brethren (Matt. 23:8 ). These titles are assumptions fashioned after those of Papacy."- Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence, January 1880, p6-7 - the words are those of Charles Taze Russell, the first President of the Watchtower Society. The Watchtower Society has had six Presidents. Let us look at the "Classes" invented or officially used by just one of them - the same Charles Taze Russell:

144,000 Class
20,736,000,000 Class
Abel Class
Achan Class
Aggressive Class
Altar Class
Amaziah Class
Ammonite Class
Amos Class
Ancient Class
Ancient Worthy Class
Anointed Class
Anointed Remnant Class
Antagonistic Class
Anti-pas Class
Antitypical Levite Class
Apostatized Class
Apostle Class
Arisen Class
Aryan Class
Beloved Class
Betrothed Class
Bird Class
Bitter Class
Blemished Class
Body Class
Bride Class
Bridegroom Class
Brier Class
Brother Class
Caleb Class
Camp Class
Carnal-Minded Babes In Christ Class
Chaff Class
Changers Class
Chief Class
Chieftain Class
Child Of God Class
Childlike Class
Chosen Class
Christ Class
Christian Sanctuary Class
Christiania Class
Church Class
Churchianity Class
Composite Class
Conqueror Class
Consecrated Class
Cream Class
Created Class
Creditor Class
Critic Class
Cultured Class
Dan Class
Dangerous Class
Darkened Class
David Class
Dead Class
Debtor Class
Deceived Class
Dependent Class
Depraved Class
Desirable Class
Dictator Class
Dignified Class
Disciple Class
Disfavored Class
Dishonorable Class
Dispensable Class
Disreputable Class
Dog Class
Eagle Class
Earthly Class
Earthly Hope Class
Edom-Idumea Class
Edomite Class
Elder Class
Elect Bride Class
Elect Class
Elijah Class
Elijah-John-The-Baptist Class
Elijah-Like Class
Elisha Class
Enthroned Class
Envious Class
Esau Class
Esther Class
Eunuch Class
Evil Slave Class
Exalted Class
Ezekiel 44 'Gate Shut' Class
Ezekiel Class
Faith Class
Faithful and Discreet Servant Class
Faithful and Discreet Slave Class
Faithful and Discreet Steward Class
Faithful and Wise Servant Class
Faithful and Wise Steward Class
Faithful Class
Favorable Class
Favored Class
Feet Class
Fighting Class
First Class
First-Born Class
Firstfruit Class
Flock Class
Foolish Virgin Class
Foreknown Class
Fourth Class
Gershonites Class
Glorified Class
Glorious Class
Goat Class
Goats Class
Gold Class
Governing Class
Great Class
Great Company Class
Great Crowd Class
Great Multitude Class
Great Restitution Class Great Teacher Class
Groom Class
Ground Class
Harvest Class
Heavenly Class
Heavenly Hope Class
High Angel Class
Higher Class
Highest Class
Hireling Class
His Bride Class
His Jewel Class
Holier Class
Holiness Class
Honored Class
Hopeless Class
Humble Class
Hypocrite Class
Improper Class
Infant Class
Influential Class
Inspired Class
Intractable Class Isaac Class
Ishmael Class
Israel Class
Jacob Class
Jehu Class
Jeremiah Class
Jerusalem Class
Jew Class
Jewel Class
Job Class
John Class
Joint-Heir Class
Jonadab Class
Jonathan Class
Joshua Class
Judas Class
Judge Class
Justified Class
King Class
Kingdom Class
Kingly Class
Laity Class
Lapsing Class
Large Class
Lazarus Class
Levite Class
Levitical Class
Little Class
Lord Class
Lordly Class
Lords over God's Heritage Class
Lower Class
Lowest Class
Loyal Class
Lunatic Class
Man Of Perdition Class
Man Of The True God Class
Man With the Writer's Inkhorn Class
Many Class
Mediator Class
Messiah Class
Messianic Class
Millennial Age Class
Ministers of the Gospel Class
Minor Class
Mordecai Class
Mordecai-Esther Class
Moses Class
Mustard Seed Class
My Bride Class
Mystery Class
Naomi Class
Needy Class
Neglected Class
Nehemiah Class
Nephilim Class
Nethinim Class
Nicodemus Class
Nominal Class
Nominal Temple Class
Non-Elect Class
Numerous Class
Obedient Class
Obscure Class
Official Class
Opposite Class
Opposition Class
Ostracized Class
Other Sheep Class
Outcast Class
Overcomer Class
Overcoming Class
Parent Class
Pastor Russell Class
Peculiar Class
Penitent Class
Permanent Class
Peter Class
Pharisaical Class
Pharisee Class
Philistine Class
Preacher's Class
Preaching Class
Priest Class
Priesthood Class
Priestly Class
Principal Class
Prodigal Class
Prophet Class
'Prophet' Class
Prophetic Class
Prophet-like Class
Putty Class
Reformer Class
Reigning Class
Religious Class
Remnant Class
Reproached Bullock Class
Reputable Class
Resident Class
Restitution Class
Restless Opposition Class
Royal Class
Running Class
Ruth Class
Ruth-Naomi Class
Sadducees Class
Saint Class
Saintly Class
Salt Class
Salter Class
Samaritan Class
Sanctified Class
Sanctuary Class
Saul Class
Scapegoat Class
Sea Class
Seashore Class
Second Class
Second Company Class
Second Death Class
Secondary Class
Seed Class
Seeking Class
Select Class
Separate Class
Servant Class
Servants of the City Class
Sheep Class
Silver Class
Simon Magus Class
Sinner Class
Sister Class
Slave Class
Son Of Heaven Class
Special Class
Specific Class
Spirit-Begotten Class
Spiritual Adultery Class
Spiritual Class
Splendid Class
Spurious Class
Standfaster Class
Steward Class
Submerged Class
Subordinate Class
Subsidiary Class
Suitable Class
Superior Class
Swine Class
Tare Class
Tarried Class
Temple Class
'The Man in Linen' Class
'Thee' Class
Third Class
Tribulation Class
True Bride Class
True Wheat Class
Unfaithful Class
Unprincipled Class
Unsaved Non-Elect Infant Class
Unsuitable Class
Upper Class
'Us' Class
Vile Class Viper Class
Virgin Class
Watchman Class
Wheat Class
Wicked and Slothful Servant Class
Wicked Class
Winnowing Class
Wise Virgin Class
Worldly Class
Worst Class
Worthies Class
Zealous Class
Zerubbabel Class
Zionistic Class
What chaos! A total of 325 Classes (and more may be discovered - my sifting work is not quite completed; I am tarrying awhile), drawn only from the published writings of just the Watchtower's first president (including a handful drawn from his one "posthumous" work) - all OFFICIAL WATCHTOWER SOCIETY PUBLICATIONS. Bear in mind that:
"God is not the author of confusion" - 1 Cor. 14:33

And further - all these classes from the same person - the very founder of the Watchtower Society - who attacked the Catholic church for having classes! Here is what Lord Jesus Christ said to men like this shameful founder of the Watchtower Cult: "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." - Matthew 7:5

And here is the clear scriptural warning to brainwashed Jehovah's Witnesses, following as they do an insane, blasphemous, dangerous, wicked, mind-controlling, soul-destroying cult that is based on the teachings of the amazingly presumptuous HYPOCRITE (as proven above) Charles Taze Russell: "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4

22 comments:

Ronald said...

Charles Taze Russell was never associated with the "Jehovah's Witnesses" organization, and did not believe in a "governing body." Most of the list spoken of here is actually from the Bible itself, and was not at all invented by Charles Taze Russell. Nor did expressions such as "the anointed" mean the same thing to Russell as it does to the "Jehovah's Witnesses", and it is misleading to put up such a list (many of which I could not even verify in the writings of Russell), since it makes it appear that Russell believed in the same thing that the "Jehovah's Witnesses" teach today. Russell did not believe that many of these "classes" would be revealed as such in this age. Russell certainly did not believe in the organizational arrangements that Rutherford developed after Russell died. Russell, I am sure, would be just as vocal in condemning the "clergy" and "laity" distinctions that have developed amongst the Jehovah's Witnesses, with one class (the alleged "remnant" of the anointed) being viewed as having authority over another class (the alleged great crowd), or the "governing body" as ruling over local congregations. Russell did not believe in such at all, not for this age. Of course, in the age to come, when all things will be revealed, then the 144,000 joint-heirs will be revealed and will have the authority with Christ, etc. The 20,736,000,000 (144,000 x 144,000) was used to represent the whole of mankind since Adam, and as far as I have been able to tell was used once by Russell, although Russell did allow others to present this matter in the pages of the Watch Tower in the "Letters".

http://ctr.reslight.net

Christian love,
Ronald

W. Lockhart said...

Love is not demonstrated by signing off your comment 'christian love', and neither is it demonstrated by reciting verses from a book which thinks that 'showing no mercy with the sword' is an appropriate theological system.

By the way Ronald, by even viewing this page 'unrepentantly', the witnesses you cherish so much would view you as an apostate. Why do you not see this? It just demonstrates what a joke your religion is. You can't even follow your most basic rules.

Ronald said...

This in response to W. Lockhart. He states that love is not demonstrated "by reciting verses from a book which thinks that 'showing no mercy with the sword' is an appropriate theological system." I am supposing that Lockart is here referring to the Bible, which does indeed depict a God of love. I suppose that he is making references to the scriptures that speak of God's command to destroy the Gentiles in the land that he had promised to the descendants of Abraham. Lockhart would presume that he knows more, and is more just, than the Creator who depicted in the Bible. In truth, the only true God, Yahweh, knows all his works, the end from the beginning. Once the divine plan is understood, one can partly see God's wisdom and love demonstrated in his dealings with the Gentiles who were in disobedience to Him. However, the appreciation of the divine plan is not being given to but a few in this age, while the vast majority are left in ignorance of that plan, nor do I hold any hope that a short comment to this blog will effect a change of attitude toward the God of the Bible, except that it be God's will.

I will quote from the weekly lesson I just prepared on the site at: http://lessons.reslight.net.

(9) That Joshua and Israel in conquering Canaan should forcible take possession of it is called into question by some. They ask, ‘By what right might one branch of the human family destroy another and seize their land? Where is the justice of such a course, not to mention the absence of love? How could the Golden Rule be applied to such a course — do unto others as you would be done by?’

(10) There is but one answer to this query; and, rightfully seen, it is a satisfactory answer. Yahweh declares that the earth is His, that He gave it to the children of men, as represented by Father Adam. (Psalm 115:16.) But the gift was conditioned upon obedience and loyalty — disobedience, disloyalty, being punishable by death. Adam incurred this penalty; and his children, under the laws of heredity, shared it with him, because brought forth in iniquity and conceived in sin. (Job 14:4; 15:14; Psalm 51:5; Ecclesiastes 1:13-15; 7:13; Romans 5:19) Thus all human right in the earth was abrogated by the death sentence upon the sinner. (Romans 3:23) Thus, Yahweh has the right to inflict, or have others inflict, that penalty of death upon any whom he wishes and by any means that he wishes. The problem, however, is that most do not understand why Yahweh is permitting death and suffering upon the groaning creation.
http://theodicy.reslight.net

(11) God purposed in Himself the recovery of Adam and his family from the curse of death — through Messiah — through His death and by the power of His Messianic Kingdom, soon to rule the earth. In preparation for these blessings to come, God laid hold upon the nation of Israel and blessed them by making a Covenant with them. Although they could not fulfill the terms of the Covenant (Romans 3:20; 8:3; Galatians 2:16; 3:10,11,21) and thus could not obtain the choicest blessing of God through obedience to that Covenant; nevertheless, the Israelites were greatly blessed by their Law Covenant, and many of them were fitted and prepared by it for cooperation with Messiah in His Kingdom in due time. Meantime, the experiences of Israel were overruled by the Almighty, to make of them types and symbols illustrative of the Divine Plan as it will be finally outworked on a higher plane. — 1 Corinthians 10:11.
http://atonement.reslight.net

(12) In carrying out this arrangement with Israel, God promised them and gave them land called Canaan. He explained to them, nevertheless, that this gift was not because of their worthiness, but because of His favor toward them in pursuit of His own great plans previously outlined to Abraham. He further explained that the people of Canaan were not making progress, and that their further continuance would be neither for their good nor for Yahweh’s glory — as with the Sodomites, whom God took away as He saw good. — Ezekiel 16:49,50.

TO SHEOL, NOT TO TORMENT

(13) It is well that we should remember that the Bible hell, to which the Canaanites went when they were slaughtered, is not the hell of torment pictured to us in the traditional teaching of men. Their destruction by the Israelites sent them to sheol, to hades, to the tomb, where “there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom.” (Ecclesiastes 9:10) There they sleep with their forefathers — just as we read of all the good as well as of all the evil ones of that time. Abraham slept with his fathers, who were heathen men. — Genesis 15:15; 47:30; Deuteronomy 31:16; Psalm 13:3.

(14) Several times in the Bible we read that both good and bad, dying, were gathered to their fathers — slept with their fathers. (Deuteronomy 31:16; Judges 2:10; 2 Kings 22:20; 2 Chronicles 34:28; Psalm 13:3) There they are still waiting for the glorious resurrection morning, when Messiah’s Kingdom, having inaugurated a reign of righteousness, will bring the earth to its Edenic condition and bring back eventually every man in his own order — all that sleep in Hades, in Sheol, in the tomb. — 1 Corinthians 15:21-29; Revelation 20:6,13.
http://hereafter.reslight.net

(15) Death with humanity would have been eternal had it not been for the ransom sacrifice of Jesus. Because of his sacrifice, we have the divine promise that there will be a resurrection of the human dead, the just and the unjust (John 5:28,29; Acts 24:15) in the “last day” (John 6:39,40,44,54; 11:24: 12:47,48), and to guarantee the fulfillment of that promise God has already sent His Son, who is the antitype of Joshua of Nun. The Son of God bore the same name as the son of Nun, only we know that name as “Jesus”. Jesus’ name, being actually the same as that of Joshua, also reflects the Holy Name of the One who sent Jesus, that is, Yahweh (Jehovah). (Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Isaiah 61:1; John 3:16,17; 17:3) In other words, in the same manner that Yahweh is the Savior who sent Joshua as the savior, deliverer, of Israel from the wilderness into the promised land, so Jesus was sent by Yahweh, the ultimate Savior, not to deliver Israel into the land of Canaan, but to deliver all mankind from the condemnation of death, the death in Adam, into a new life. (1 Corinthians 15:21,22; Romans 5:12) To do this, he died for human sin (Matthew 20:28; 26:28; Mark 10:45; John 1:29,36; 6:51; Romans 3:25; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Galatians 1:4; Ephesians 1:7; 5:2; Hebrews 10:12; 1 Timothy 2:5,6; 1 Peter 2:24; 3:18; 1 John 2:2; Revelation 1:5; 5:6), thus opening up the way for the resurrection — that Yahweh might be just and yet be the justifier of those accepting Jesus. — Deuteronomy 32:4; Zephaniah 3:5; Romans 3:26.

(16) True, few have accepted Him as yet, because most are still blinded to a knowledge of the truth. The great masses of the world are still blind and deaf, and do not understand. (Isaiah 60:2; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Revelation 12:9) The glorious promise is that in that coming day not only will all be awakened from the tomb, but the knowledge of the glory of Yahweh (Jehovah) will fill the whole earth (Isaiah 6:3; 11:9; 40:5; Habakkuk 2:14; Revelation 21:1-5), and no more deceptions will be allowed during that judgment day. (Revelation 20:3) Then all the blind eyes will be opened and all the deaf ears will be unstopped. (Isaiah 35:5) All will have the opportunity of returning to Divine favor under Messiah’s Kingdom. (Isaiah 2:2-4) Those refusing to come into harmony will be classed as willful rebels, and will die the Second Death. — Revelation 20:11-15; 21:7,8.

(17) Those of the nation of Canaan, like all other nations, will have a share in that glorious time when Jesus, the Light of the world, will enlighten every man, that they might see the glory of Yahweh. — John 1:9.

(18) From this viewpoint, the taking of Palestine from the people who were using it to no profit themselves, and the giving of it to Israel for the enactment of types of good things to come, was not injustice, but wisdom. And taking away by the sword the people already condemned to death was just as proper as if they had been taken away by famine and pestilence. In any event, the Divine provision for them, all through Christ, is a blessing which will reach them in Messiah’s Day, when the earth shall be free from the curse. (Revelation 22:3) Then the curse will be rolled away and the blessing of Yahweh shall be rolled upon them (Genesis 22:18; 26:4; Psalm 72:11; 86:9; Isaiah 2:2; 25:6-8; Galatians 3:8), when the enlightened will learn to love righteousness and hate iniquity. To all such there will be no more sighing, no more dying, no more crying. (Revelation 21:1-3) Willful evil-doers will be destroyed (Psalm 37:9,10); and all the earth having been brought to perfection (Isaiah 60:13; 66:1; Ezekiel 36:35), God’s will shall be done on earth as perfectly as it is done in Heaven. — Matthew 6:10.
See the study on “Mankind’s Course to the Day of Judgment”
http://hereafter.reslight.net/cdj.html

Lockhart continues: "even viewing this page 'unrepentantly', the witnesses you cherish so much would view you as an apostate." I have no reason to repent for viewing this page. Evidently Lockhart has assumed that I am associated with the "Jehovah's Witnesses", if that is what he means by "witnesses you cherish." The witnesses I cherish are any who are witnesses for Jesus. I do not cherish the "Jehovah's Witnesses" as such, although I do have great love for many who are being deluded by that system.

Christianity, properly appreciated, is the greatest "religion" upon the face of the earth. It is the only way I have found that answers the questions of why there is so much suffering, evil, etc., and how God's purposes, in his wisdom and love, are being fulfilled by allowing this short period of "darkness".

Lockhart says that I cannot even follow the most basic rules of Christianity. I am not sure what this means. The basic rule of Christianity, applicable in this age, is this: "if you will confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved [delivered]." (1 Corinthians 1:23; 2:2; Romans 10:9) Hebrews 6:1,2 gives the basics as "repentance from dead works, of faith toward God, of the teaching of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment." It is true, however, that most professing Christians, although they have vague ideas about these subjects, have never fully appreciated the beauty of the resurrection and that "age to come" (Hebrews 6:5) when God's judgments will be in the earth, and the world will be blessed by the kingdom soon to fill the whole earth. -- Isaiah 2:2-4; Daniel 2:44.

Christian love,
Ronald

W. Lockhart said...

If you could only hear yourself, Mr. Christian Love. There's never, EVER, a justification for slicing to death all the men, women(except the young and fertile virgins, of course) and children of a nation, and such a god is not wise, by definition. I certainly *do* think I'm more wise than this mythical being. It's not difficult to be more wise than an unwise ogre.

Fortunately one brief glance at the suffering in the natural world is enough to melt your entire god premise, and make you look very stupid all in one fell swoop. I've made very extensive comments on this site recently about this stuff and much more. Go and read them because I'm tired of repeatedly neutralising precisely the same apologetics. Seriously.

chocolatepuddingeyes said...

W. Lockhart said...

I've made very extensive comments on this site recently about this stuff and much more. Go and read them because I'm tired of repeatedly neutralising precisely the same apologetics. Seriously.


This comment says it all Lockhart. You're tired of doing something, yet seem compelled to do it anyway. Why? What is making you do something you are obviously tired of doing? Is it because you have made yourself a slave of God's arch enemy?

Seriously, if you don't believe in any kind of God or supreme being or superior power, why would you spend one second doing something you're tired of? That doesn't make any sense. If you really were the atheist that you proclaim you are, you would leave everyone alone.

You're not a true atheist. You've just changed ships. Instead of proclaiming the good news of the Christ and teaching people about his father, you're a slave to the father of the lie. I'm sure you will have a lengthy response to this post, I expect it. That won't change the facts.

When you can separate your hurt and anger over the WTB&TS from Jehovah you will be able to get to know the God of Love. That day is going to come sooner or later.

Reader2008 said...

This comment says it all Lockhart. You're tired of doing something, yet seem compelled to do it anyway. Why? What is making you do something you are obviously tired of doing? Is it because you have made yourself a slave of God's arch enemy?

Wow, that is a giant leap of logic. Are you sure there is no other possible reason?

Are you always this judgmental?

chocolatepuddingeyes said...

Reader I sincerely believe that Lockhart has a lot of anger and resentment towards the WTB&TS, but is directing that anger towards "God." It's a great tool for Satan to use.

But this reasoning only works for people who believe in the Bible. If one believes the Bible is a bunch of nonsense, then that person is not going to come to the same conclusion as I did.

W. Lockhart said...

I certainly agree that any person, including myself, who views the bible as just another book, will take a very different view. How can I be angry towards an entity that I don't believe in? Am I also angry towards Zeus and Thor?

Just for the record and in case anyone is still confused: I don't believe in Satan, nor do I believe in goblins, demons or fairy tales. My conviction is strengthened by loooking at the natural world, which is defined by competition and suffering, with species jockeying for position as they try to out adapt their predator/prey. I do not believe in God.

P.S. I'd like to think I'm more frustrated than angry, which goes a long way to explaining why I feel the need to constantly comment when people speak of god with the a priori assumption than he exists. It also explains why I can simultaneously get tired of doing it.

Of course, everything I've said here will be ignored by most, since atheists are evil to the core, aren't they? We can't have anyone thinking about things, that's just stooopid. Does anyone think that screw-worms were not manufactured by any god? Be careful, you have one foot inside Satan's living room.

Ringwielder said...

Chocolate pudding eyes, it may be that you have swapped one lie for another too.

Out of all the 1000's of sects of Christianity, which one is truth? How do you know YOU have the 'truth' now? Why did God make it so damned difficult to know truth, if He wants all to be saved?

You may say you do not belong to any of these 1000's of sects, that you are non-denominational, but I have seen 1000's of testimonies to the same thing on here and yet, they all believe different things, some diametrically opposed to one another.

My 40 years as a JW has left me mistrustful of any 'GOD' who says he is 'not far off from any of us and will make himself known if we seek him', and yet left me languishing in a false religion for most of my life, despite my frequent prayers and requests for truth and faith.

This God of the Bible murders nations, murders innocent babies and the unborn, is jealous, unjust, petty and lied to me. I dont want to live as a subject of such a tyrant.

I am now an agnostic... I dont know about evolution, but dont believe the God of the Bible created this world. I just dont know, and neither does anyone else.

If he knows all, he must have seen, when I finally saw the light about the JWs, where I would end up.

I respect and enjoy your posts on this blog regarding the JWs by the way, but I see ex-(name your christian sect) still having a deep faith in God somewhat as jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

thedude said...

Ronald knows his stuff.

He is the bomb.

He knows more about JWs, the history etc than others here will ever.

chocolatepuddingeyes said...

Lockhart: I certainly agree that any person, including myself, who views the bible as just another book, will take a very different view. How can I be angry towards an entity that I don't believe in? Am I also angry towards Zeus and Thor?

This is one of those arguments you accuse other people of using. I clearly stated you are angry with the WTB&TS.

Lockhart: Of course, everything I've said here will be ignored by most, since atheists are evil to the core, aren't they?

Now your putting words in my mouth. I never said atheists are evil to the core, no one on this blog has said that atheists are evil to the core. Most of the atheists have I have met during my life have been genuinely good people. They all had a specific reason for not believing in God. I can think of two atheists, one I worked with, and one I called on in the ministry. Both of these men were intelligent, compassionate, caring individuals. One of them was an artist and he loved the earth and everything on it. He was amazed by the things God created, but he just didn't want to give credit to there being a creator. He preferred to believe it all came about by chance. I never thought of his as being evil, just misguided.

Your arguments for not believing in God don't mean anything to me because you have never presented irrefutable proof that I'm wrong. Mostly you take offense with the Bible being candid and honest because you seem to be extremely offended at some of the violence recorded in the Bible. In fact, you are so offended by the violence that you can't get past it to understand why God had that recorded in the first place. You can't open up your mind to accepting that there's a viable reason for those things to have been written down. That's a brick wall you put up. You're the only one who can take it down.

I have believed in God since I was a little kid. I didn't come to know God until I started studying with the JW's. I am no longer with the JW's, but that doesn't mean I am no longer with God. They were just a stepping stone to get where I am today.

I have read some of the arguments against the Bible. I didn't keep on reading because I found the arguments unbelievable, they didn't hold water. But I don't go around to atheist blogs telling the readers that they are wrong for believing there is no God. If I did, I would probably get pretty tired because they would have response after response refuting what they believe.

Yet, you come to this blog, which is mostly read by people who do believe in God, and give us a hard time for our beliefs. You put us down with your comments, like we're idiots and you're the only one who knows what their talking about. I would think it would be more enjoyable for you to associate with like-minded people and explore your beliefs with them.

But you're here for a reason. You got hurt by the WTB&TS and have an agenda. You're out to destroy others' belief in God because your belief in the WT God hurt you and your family. I hope someday you can figure out the difference between the WT God and Jehovah and appreciate Jehovah for who he really is.

chocolatepuddingeyes said...

Ringwielder: Chocolate pudding eyes, it may be that you have swapped one lie for another too.

Out of all the 1000's of sects of Christianity, which one is truth? How do you know YOU have the 'truth' now? Why did God make it so damned difficult to know truth, if He wants all to be saved?


He said in the book of Daniel that the words would be made secret and sealed up until the time of the end (Dan. 12:9). I'm patient. I can wait. When Jehovah pours out his spirit on the real anointed ones we'll know it. There will be no more guessing who has the truth. These anointed ones will perform miracles, just like the anointed ones in the first century did. There are things yet to come that are going to be awesome and amazing displays of Jesus' power and authority, granted to him by his Father.

When that time comes, if this blog is still around, I'll answer your question about which Christian sect has the truth. ;) I believe that Russell revived a lot of truths that had gone by the wayside, but that JW's do not have the whole truth. Just enough for the preparatory work Jesus wanted done before the time of the end.

Most of the 7 million JW's around the earth are going to be shocked when Jesus really returns and things don't go well for the org. But there are thousands of JW's and former JW's that are expecting the demise of the WTB&TS. Because of all the reproach the Society has brought on Jehovah's name they are going to be dealt with accordingly.

As I type this out, the Governing Body is fully aware of those who are on the outside telling others of Jehovah's judgments against them. Instead of being humble and repenting, they continue to churn out warnings about apostates and continue to promote their lies. Too bad for them. They should make amends before it's too late.

A friend showed me a website where the author explains the whole God/Satan/Adam/Eve thing from a different perspective. It's one of the essays found on this page:

http://www.musingsaboutgod.com/

The essay is called, "The Truth About God." I enjoyed the essay very much, I hope you do too. It helped me put things in better perspective.

W. Lockhart said...

Chocolatepuddingeyes, you say, with a straight face, that there's no irrefutable proof that god doesn't exist, but that irrefutable proof is right there in nature, right under your nose. You're just in denial. You can't explain why animals exist which tear apart others for a living, so you choose denial.

You also, amazingly, accuse your atheist friend of seeing 'god's creation' but refusing to give credit to the creator. But there's no credit to give. You've defined everything to see as god's creation, which is convenient and circular. So although I didn't accuse you of being an idiot, given a false choice between idiot and intelligent, I would label you an idiot. But I don't think you are really, just in denial because you need a security blanket to grip onto.

I'm going to pin you to the wall about something you said about my view of biblical violence:

"You can't open up your mind to accepting that there's a viable reason for those things to have been written down"

This is utterly ridiculous. I oppose the sick, sick verses in the bible precisely because my mind is open, not because it is closed. There is simply no viable reason for recording the stories shown, except for the Israelites to show off their miltary conquests. You're just making slimy apology for scriptures which don't deserve apologising for.

I don't mind 'pointed' instructions but it's not the bible's unabashed language I take issue with, so don't create a straw man. The saddest thing is your hypocrisy. You probably wouldn't go to see a film in which people's guts were being torn to bits by sword fighting, since this is 'against your beliefs, right? All I can say is, it's a good job the bible doesn't come with sound and visual effects like modern movies do.

But, please, don't make the grave mistake of thinking that my atheism is primarily a result of issues with the bible, or issues with the JWs. You try to paint a picture of me as a bitter ex-JW because you're frightened to death of giving ear to the reasons I state for my disbelief. The primary reason for my lack of belief is a knowledge of biology. Unfortunately this leads me to the conclusion that you are both deluded and intensely ill-informed about science. My aim is not so much to 'destroy' others' beliefs but to show people the truth about nature, which has the secondary effect of melting the god idea. However, if you can't follow the simple logic which comes from observing how the animal kingdom functions, then there's little hope of you listening to what I say about this; this is why I claimed that religious people will not listen to what I say.

W. Lockhart said...

I have something else to add, and I'm sick of saying this to ignorant creationist, but I don't want to walk away with a false perception of what atheists believe. You declare, again with a straight face, that the atheist you encountered 'wanted' to beleive that everything came about by chance. I take issue with 'wanted' but actually it doesn't even matter what he wants, reality is what's important.

Evolution is emphatically not a chance process. That is the whole meaning of natural selection (look up the word selection in a dictionary). The development of mutations in the gene pool is random, but this process alone is not evolution. Evolution occurs when the advantageous mutations are selected for, while the rest are selected against. This is a non-random process. I suggest you read some material about natural selection to find out more since it's a very rich field of study.

Above all my advice to you is to stop creating straw men, because this is not the first one you've created. It seems that the only way you can oppose the truth about reality is to distort that truth before you attack it. A very sad state of affairs, one shared by a frightening portion of the planet's population. I would be in danger of thinking that others were 'idiots' as you claim, but fortunately I just view them as misled. Horribly misled.

thedude said...

"You got hurt by the WTB&TS and have an agenda."

How does one get hurt by a printing company when there is no personal libel or slander involved?

These atheists who fight against JWs are just so funny. They want to just blame others for their actions or inactions. typical.

thedude said...

Choco choco choco

"Most of the 7 million JW's around the earth are going to be shocked when Jesus really returns and things don't go well for the org."

I don't believe that for a minute. Do you?

The JWs are the only ones doing God's will and are even interested in pleasing him.

"But there are thousands of JW's and former JW's that are expecting the demise of the WTB&TS. Because of all the reproach the Society has brought on Jehovah's name they are going to be dealt with accordingly."

I don't believe that either.

Exjws have no idea what God's will is and don't care about pleasing him. They just want to slander the WTS. pity.

The WTS has brought no reproach on Jehovah's name. Looking to dates is not reproach but faith in the Word and kingdom. Child abuse, not the WTS's fault.


"As I type this out, the Governing Body is fully aware of those who are on the outside telling others of Jehovah's judgments against them. Instead of being humble and repenting, they continue to churn out warnings about apostates and continue to promote their lies. Too bad for them. They should make amends before it's too late."

The GB is quite humble. It is those who worship them like the blog guy here, that is not humble.
What is the fascination with the GB for or against?

W. Lockhart said...

"These atheists who fight against JWs are just so funny. They want to just blame others for their actions or inactions. typical."

With an argument of this level of sophistication, how can I respond? These witty words singularly cast a veil over the unpleasant activites of bullet ants and the cutting jaws of carvivorous insects, whilst powerfully hiding vestigial features, and other evidence of poor design, such as prostate glands, aging, and choking risks, from everyone's view.

What this means, 'thedude', is that your words have the effects of magic. What can I say, I'm in awe.

thedude said...

W Lockhart, I said "These atheists who fight against JWs are just so funny." because to fight against something, one must have something to fight for and something better.

Atheists do not have either.

W. Lockhart said...

In a sane universe, you would be quite right thedude, atheists would have nothing to fight against and they *should* have nothing to fight against. Atheism is a lack of belief. If we wanted to call atheism a belief, we should call bald a hair colour.

On the other hand, in turns out that we live on a planet where most people believe in a sky-fairy coupled with an absurd book, again coupled with a shocking ignorance of biology and science in general. So it turns out that there is something to fight against: irrationality.

And you'll be aware of the reasons why the creationist view is irrational, since you've either read about it elsewhere, or you'll have seen me state them explicitly here (although it's not generally possible to convince a believer of anything, since their believe arises from a deep-seated need to believe, not from evidence).

chocolatepuddingeyes said...

Lockhart, you assume too much about me.

Have a nice day!

chocolatepuddingeyes said...

thedude said...

Choco choco choco

"Most of the 7 million JW's around the earth are going to be shocked when Jesus really returns and things don't go well for the org."

I don't believe that for a minute. Do you?


Of course I do, I wrote it, didn't I?

I have no fascination with the GB, I'm just telling it like it is. I'm not here to prove I'm right and you're wrong. I'm just here to offer information. People read it, then make a decision what they want to do with that information.

Surely you're familiar with the scriptures at Ezekiel 33:8,9.

W. Lockhart said...

When I hear someone claim that atheists view 'god's creation' but choose to view it as having 'randomly arisen', my 'assumption' is the same - that person is ignorant, just as I used to be. So I haven't 'assumed' too much, unless you're a secret atheist. In any case you were the one creating straw man after straw man, so your assumption meter was going crazy.

Now you can either choose to listen to what I say about biology or you can choose to ignore it. It seems you chose the latter.